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RE: Fork in the River - 12/22/2005 1:33:38 PM   
SusanofO


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Wow. There's so much here in this thread. I am tuning in later tonight for sure. I am so glad people are still commenting on it.I wish I could stay now, but if I do not tear myself away am going to really be in trouble. - Susan

(in reply to GentileDomNY)
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RE: Fork in the River - 12/22/2005 1:43:16 PM   
afmvdp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: veronicaofML
i don't mind the ox and the horse.......
but unicorn???????? no way dudes
they are supposed to be magical and sacred........ain't no way they should be used as a farm critter.........
whoever this crowley is..oughta be whipped himself.......he's an idiot!

that's my story and i'm stickin to it.


haha... while on a level I very much agree with you, though idiot wouldn't be the right term, slightly off his rocker and blinded by delusions of grandeur is far more accurate.

This quote is of a very different meaning though as each beast represents an element that needs to be controlled. The Unicorn is speech, The Horse is Action and the The Ox is Thought. The field is the person, and ploughing it is about the process of Mastering one's self, which in my mind should always be a precursor before anyone could even begin to believe they are capable of mastering another.

Now these Beasts run wildly upon the earths and are not easily obedient to the Man

< Message edited by afmvdp -- 12/22/2005 1:44:20 PM >


_____________________________

Three are the Beasts wherewith thou must plough the Field; the Unicorn, the Horse, and the Ox. And these shalt thou yoke in a triple yoke that is governed by One Whip.
- Crowley ~ OTO Liber III

(in reply to veronicaofML)
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RE: Fork in the River - 12/22/2005 1:46:42 PM   
MasterLark


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Late to this thread but still have enjoyed your story very much. And your analysis and thos of others.

I would only add that:

listening is an action, mindfulness is an obligation and learning how to be attuned to yourself, your sub/slave and your community is the ongoing challenge. All answers have consequences and tradeoffs. The right answer can be both a certainty and elusive at the same time. To live a life with risk is to live for sure.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Fork in the River - 12/22/2005 2:47:45 PM   
veronicaofML


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From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
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slightly off his rocker and blinded by delusions of grandeur is far more accurate.
==========

off his rocker in MY book IS an idiot
and grandeur?
means he lives in a fantasy bubble world......
so he is a fool AND an idiot!



_____________________________

drugs sex and rock n roll,...drugs are good and so is the rock n roll, sex is over rated"
=============
"go straight to hell, do not pass go and do not collect $200"



(in reply to afmvdp)
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RE: Fork in the River - 12/22/2005 5:18:29 PM   
Marquisd


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Perhaps I got the story wrong..........................however


I'd go after the dude taking the certain road of death and try to save his sorry ass..............and that of his pet............

If you can save a life - do it - if you know you can save a life - you must do it

just my humble opinion


cheers

Marquisd

_____________________________

Relationships develop at the speed of trust

"Official Sadist and Dom of the 2010 Winter Games"

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Fork in the River - 12/22/2005 8:44:04 PM   
SusanofO


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Guess I finally nailed my mass of posts on this thread down to two basic questions:
(Not that I want this thread to stop, I just realized I wrote a lot today, and thought: Where is this thread headed for me? What did I talk about, really, and what is it I want to know? There is much else on this thread I still I think would be wonderful to talk about and variations on where this entire thread goes are myriad).

1. Please: What is (generally) a Mindfu_ within a role-play context? I am curious about specific examples (but realize this is up to individual taste). I am seeking general educational info. When I first heard about them, I thought 'not for me'.

But - that view has softened a lot(have no idea why and wonder if that even matters) and I am just plain curious and think I might get a better handle on what they are generally with a specific example I can interpret more broadly for myself.

It's not that I have a hard time picturing what one Is, it's that I'd appreciate knowing more about the goal as far as the feelings they are meant to elicit between people - and using a specific scenario to explain it in that context would probably make it more clear for me. As in "Say two people are going to a cafe...yadda yadda...but then..all of a sudden such and such happens.."or whatever you think might illustrate it best.
If and when you have time. Thank you very much.


2. Is aftercare in a sadistic scenario different than general aftercare in other "sub-sets" of bdsm? I know maybe some folks don't want or need it, (there are never any hard and fast rules I guess, about much) but - am hoping even sadistic scenes involve some kind of aftercare. I understand wanting to hurt people for fun. I want to know what happens afterward in a general, educational sense.

If and when you have time. I can't get the fact I previously had many pre-conceived misconceptions about sadism out of my head. Thanks much and Happy Holidays.

- Susan314

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/22/2005 8:52:47 PM >

(in reply to Marquisd)
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RE: Fork in the River - 12/22/2005 9:34:33 PM   
SusanofO


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I am so glad you wrote that. It is a hopeful comment and I think it says people who may misinterpret eachother just don't know eachother yet and says a lot about taking time for trust-building between participants in groups and-or discussion sites.

General complimentary comments:
I think giving people the benefit of the doubt helps (for me) if I at first might not understand what they stated. Of course anyone can have a bad day here and there too, which might be the cause of jumping to a conclusion if in doubt. Of course people have a right to disagree and state their own opinions. I really think putting oneself in another's shoes helps (anyone experiementing with bdsm has an imagination to an extent at least right? So if don't know somebody can imagine what they may have meant in a thread topic discussion, and consider it might be more than one thing?

I appreciate the comment about subs. I guess if that happens to me, I just respond directly sometimes with a second try at explaining to that person, in terms that I consider the best I can do, being clear about what I was trying to say if I think I hurt somebody's feelings (because that is my major concern). I might not always be concise, but clear I certainly hope to be. Hoping to let whoever know, at the same time, that I like to think I can be pretty bright and-or observant. Thinking that isn't the same thing as being conceited. It's called having a bit of self-esteem, no? I can also stick my foot in my mouth or feel self-conscious without meaning to (usually as a result of tiredness).

Maybe this should be another thread, but I'll just say this one time, and is not a big deal, just an observation (and perhaps old news to those who focus on it). Sometimes I think just coming out and saying, if I sense a situation is getting heated: It's not a contest (is it)? About whose opinion is "best"? I have never actually done that, because I think it may exacerbate (not help solve) any problem, and sometimes I think people figure (maybe for good reason) why bother? People here on this site have been plenty generous with information. If I don't get it I just check something else out (a lot of threads are inter-related; least I think so - and there's always the internet as a resarch tool, too).

I abhor fighting as in yelling and-or screaming and think I am going to put it on my Dislikes list or make it a hard limit. It takes so much energy I can use for other stuff. I know it works for some and am not judging it. Some peope don't like people who hate it, too and may think they are cowards. Maybe. If so, coddle us (hehe, just kdding (ha!) but really...). That certainly hasn't happened on this thread but I've seen it happen elsewhere. And somebody may be even able to salvage the situation, too. That's the sad part. Ah well...Walk on...yet

I do not have an appreciation of seeing other people mis-interpet eachother. Sometimes I think I see that - and sometimes I think I can almost see it coming - and I cringe because I know they could probably maybe even like eachother if someone would intervene gently thus letting them save face and-or if they'd think twice (I have caught myself doing that occasionally. And also jumping to a conclusion or two. Trying to salvage a spiraling downhill situation (again, not on this thread) but on a completely un-related blog I write into sometimes). It may be a waste of time (yet part of me is calling saying its not). I may be seeing things that are not there, but sometimes I don't think so. In any case, I can deal. It hurts to watch (and not in a good way, hehe. And again I haven't seen it here). I read a lot of message boards and it may just be run-of-the-mill. And yet...and yet...

Yes, subs-slaves are Not idiots-on-assumption. Most Doms I've seen aren't either, and if all the Doms had paddled together maybe they could have all been "look-outs" for stuff that might go wrong on the river. That's their job, that's what you're saying. I hear it. And if they listened to their sub-slaves. No reason to pollute a river just because some people may be aren't perceived as doing that, but might it not help if they could try. Have to put ego aside to be able to do that (which kinda conflicts with being seen as "Domly" for some I spose, and can also maybe be difficult - this can go for subs-slaves too). But maybe worth a shot for a "higher good" as in making things pleasant for everybody so people can learn better, maybe. Maybe this isn't what you meant. In any case, I thought it maybe was. And hadn't thought about it much at all, before I saw your post. I am glad I did. - Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/22/2005 10:35:04 PM >

(in reply to GentileDomNY)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Fork in the River - 12/23/2005 4:48:14 AM   
SusanofO


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Thanks much, veronica. If I can get into my original reply later, I will.
I seem to be blocked from editing. God help the mods if they are actually editing my posts when I write them, as I sometimes take about 10 "takes" to reply to a post (depending on what I want to, and have time, to say). Write and re-write.

***Do the mods (anybody know?)have to re-view (to approve) Every version if a post, as it's re-written if someone is editing a post (after they've written something and change it to more of what they want it to mean)? If so, that may be why I am blocked from editing. This occurred to me anyway. (I'll be much more concise, if this is the case, because if it is I do pity them. I edit almost everything. So far anyway. Next week I might be too busy to write much.

In any case, I can't get into my post in the quote-box, it seems, to click it into disappearing and follow your advice. But I do appreciate the advice.
If I can, I will try later today or night or this week-end. If I can't edit it out, hope folks just ignore there's an extra of almost the same post. Happy Holidays! - Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/23/2005 4:49:28 AM >

(in reply to veronicaofML)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Fork in the River - 12/23/2005 11:03:32 AM   
afmvdp


Posts: 494
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: veronicaofML

off his rocker in MY book IS an idiot
and grandeur?
means he lives in a fantasy bubble world......
so he is a fool AND an idiot!



I guess that would be the one thing that unifies all religous leaders then really.

_____________________________

Three are the Beasts wherewith thou must plough the Field; the Unicorn, the Horse, and the Ox. And these shalt thou yoke in a triple yoke that is governed by One Whip.
- Crowley ~ OTO Liber III

(in reply to veronicaofML)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Fork in the River - 12/23/2005 11:30:08 AM   
Sunshine119


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Joined: 8/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: veronicaofML

so let me get this straight,,,,,,,,
the guy has a friend...whom is headed for his death..and he cowers out...instead of trying to save his life?

and then i am asked WHY i say no one on this planet can be trusted.............???????????

some damned friend THAT asshole turned out to be!~

i for one...........am quite ticked off at the audacity......

i hate a coward......where's the damned loyalty of friendship?



Veronica,

I'm with you. lol This may have been an analogy about alot of things, including paths that MAY NOT have resulted in certain death. BUT...as a member of the community, I think we all have a responsibility, Master or slave, Dominant or submissive to respectfully point out to our friends the ramification of the paths they have chosen. Should they continue, that is their own choice, but one made with full knowledge.

Anything else is just a verification that each in the community only cares about him/herself. We ARE community, aren't we?

(in reply to veronicaofML)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Fork in the River - 12/23/2005 6:32:52 PM   
afmvdp


Posts: 494
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline
that is of course making the assumption that the submissive who told her Master that death lay ahead was not incorrect, unsure, or even more dastardly flat out lying and manipulating to get her own way

_____________________________

Three are the Beasts wherewith thou must plough the Field; the Unicorn, the Horse, and the Ox. And these shalt thou yoke in a triple yoke that is governed by One Whip.
- Crowley ~ OTO Liber III

(in reply to Sunshine119)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Fork in the River - 12/23/2005 7:14:20 PM   
caitlyn


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A boatsman shouldn't take on passengers, unless he knows he is taking the boat to a safe place.

A slave shouldn't get in, unless she either knows where the boat is going, or has total confidence in the boatsman.

Just my opinion.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Fork in the River - 12/23/2005 7:26:33 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

A boatsman shouldn't take on passengers, unless he knows he is taking the boat to a safe place.

A slave shouldn't get in, unless she either knows where the boat is going, or has total confidence in the boatsman.

Just my opinion.



I have never meet a person that could state that he "knows" where he is going is absolutely safe... I have never know a single person that can say that they know where there going and has "total" confidence. Fact is... life throws curve balls... you can know a river... but it rains during the night and the river is higher and suddenly it changes... it could very well change enough that it doesn't look like something you have been down before. Go down a river enough times... sooner or later you get a feel for it... can anticipate how certain things could effect change.... you can even do it with confidence. but the fact is the first time you go down the river... you can't be "Total" in your knowledge... you can be confident... but you can't be "Total"... we we waited to be "total" confident... or Total in your knowledge of where we are going before we left the dock... well we would never leave the dock! Do it safely... Prepare... learn as much as one can... beware of the risks as much as possible... but be ready for the unexpected... be ready for change... be ready that what is on the map... is not going to be right.. and you will have to think quick... and change on the dime... taking slow steps can sure help... following the crowd... staying in the groups... going with those that been there before are ways to keep the risk down... but there is always risk... but keep the risk Managable!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 53
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