RE: Bishops Vow to Confront Obama Administration Over Abortion (Full Version)

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BbwCanaDomme -> RE: Bishops Vow to Confront Obama Administration Over Abortion (11/14/2008 11:41:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

I feel like I've gone back in time. I can't  believe we are actually discussing this issue. We need more abortion, not less. There are too many people on the planet.


In some countries they allow a couple to have x amount of babies and they just kill the ones after that....maybe we could try that for a while and see how it works.


Whoa! I'm going to take a wild guess and say you've never left your country. I'm pretty sure there are no countries that do that.



michaelOfGeorgia -> RE: Bishops Vow to Confront Obama Administration Over Abortion (11/14/2008 11:48:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

I feel like I've gone back in time. I can't  believe we are actually discussing this issue. We need more abortion, not less. There are too many people on the planet.


In some countries they allow a couple to have x amount of babies and they just kill the ones after that....maybe we could try that for a while and see how it works.


let's start with getting rid of the politicians, lawyers and rich people in general before we start getting rid of babies. might actually work better.



Hippiekinkster -> RE: Bishops Vow to Confront Obama Administration Over Abortion (11/15/2008 12:03:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BbwCanaDomme

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

I feel like I've gone back in time. I can't  believe we are actually discussing this issue. We need more abortion, not less. There are too many people on the planet.


In some countries they allow a couple to have x amount of babies and they just kill the ones after that....maybe we could try that for a while and see how it works.


Whoa! I'm going to take a wild guess and say you've never left your country. I'm pretty sure there are no countries that do that.
I want to check your spelling. Do you mean "countries" or "counties"?



BbwCanaDomme -> RE: Bishops Vow to Confront Obama Administration Over Abortion (11/15/2008 12:15:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: BbwCanaDomme

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

I feel like I've gone back in time. I can't  believe we are actually discussing this issue. We need more abortion, not less. There are too many people on the planet.


In some countries they allow a couple to have x amount of babies and they just kill the ones after that....maybe we could try that for a while and see how it works.


Whoa! I'm going to take a wild guess and say you've never left your country. I'm pretty sure there are no countries that do that.
I want to check your spelling. Do you mean "countries" or "counties"?

Well, I was aiming for countries, but I'm pretty sure counties would apply as well haha



candystripper -> RE: Bishops Vow to Confront Obama Administration Over Abortion (11/15/2008 2:04:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Two points...

One... Abortion exists beyond religion. In their opposition, the Bishops are calling upon the right to life as inalienable and since the Constituton was created to secure such rights, it is the duty of United Staes to protect said right.

Two... "secure the Blessings of Liberty"  (note the capital B). In that context, they are saying that Liberty is a gift from God.

And for the record, the document having noted the Blessings of Liberty, was ratified it by unanimous consent in the "Year of our Lord"  (exact language) "one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven"

The same Lord that gave the Blessings.




Ever heard of a U.S. Supreme Court decision called Roe v. Wade?  I think it's about 40 years old now.  I will await further pronouncements from the Supremes as to how the Consitution should be interpreted, but hey, that's just me.
 
BTW, the phrase you used is in the Preamble, not the body of the Constution itself.
 
quote:

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
 
I'm not a Constutional Law scholar, but I cannot off-hand recall any U.S. Supreme Court deicision which relied on the Preamble to interprete the Constitution on new facts.
 
candystripper  [sm=pole.gif]



candystripper -> RE: Bishops Vow to Confront Obama Administration Over Abortion (11/15/2008 2:43:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

I feel like I've gone back in time. I can't  believe we are actually discussing this issue. We need more abortion, not less. There are too many people on the planet.


In some countries they allow a couple to have x amount of babies and they just kill the ones after that....maybe we could try that for a while and see how it works.


let's start with getting rid of the politicians, lawyers and rich people in general before we start getting rid of babies. might actually work better.



Aw, and I thought you liked me, Michael. 
 
*Wink*
 
candystripper  [sm=pole.gif]



SilverMark -> RE: Bishops Vow to Confront Obama Administration Over Abortion (11/15/2008 5:33:18 AM)

I wonder if the Bishops will be as successful as they are on their stance on birth control?....and of course they were so successful with the sex scandal within their churches. (I know too easy) but, for the devout it is no change and for the less devout they do as they wish with or without the bishop's blessings.They only wish
they were as powerful on the subject of their followers decisions in the United States.



LadyEllen -> RE: Bishops Vow to Confront Obama Administration Over Abortion (11/15/2008 6:00:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I hate to hijack this thing back from bumfuckt Antarctica somewhere but oh well.

"whatever the democratic process determines. "

NO, LE, that is EXACTLY why this was setup as a Republic.

In a true democracy your neighbors, even people in different states, or couties or whatever could vote that you have to paint your house blue. It becomes law, in a Democracy that is, in a Republic the government prevents bullshit like that from happening. In a true Republic, not that we have ever witnessed one, the leaders actually are servants.

T


and yet we observe time and again that the majority will choose leaders who enact such "paint your house blue" policies.

indeed, the threat that those who like houses blue now feel is the reason they'd like a word with Obama, who seems to prefer a different colour scheme.

that the notional Republic ought to have prevented houses being painted blue in the first place but did not illustrates the reality well.

E



Evility -> RE: Bishops Vow to Confront Obama Administration Over Abortion (11/15/2008 6:17:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Ever read the Bill of Rights?


I have. Quote me the passage that mandates a separation of church and state.

I'll wait.



Evility -> RE: Bishops Vow to Confront Obama Administration Over Abortion (11/15/2008 6:19:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
Not really.  The First Amendment does not call for an absolute separation of church and state.  The proscription is of the government involving itself in religious affairs, not of religious people involving themselves in government affairs.  It's not a two-way street.


Hold your cards. We have a bingo.



Evility -> RE: Bishops Vow to Confront Obama Administration Over Abortion (11/15/2008 6:22:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
Small problem with quoting the Declaration of Independence--it's not in the Constitution.


What he said.





thishereboi -> RE: Bishops Vow to Confront Obama Administration Over Abortion (11/15/2008 6:42:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BbwCanaDomme

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

I feel like I've gone back in time. I can't  believe we are actually discussing this issue. We need more abortion, not less. There are too many people on the planet.


In some countries they allow a couple to have x amount of babies and they just kill the ones after that....maybe we could try that for a while and see how it works.


Whoa! I'm going to take a wild guess and say you've never left your country. I'm pretty sure there are no countries that do that.


Yes I have left the country, but that doesn't really matter. All I need is the internet and google.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy



Lorr47 -> RE: Bishops Vow to Confront Obama Administration Over Abortion (11/15/2008 7:05:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

FR... 

"We hold these truths to be self evident..."

Small problem with quoting the Declaration of Independence--it's not in the Constitution.

The Constitutional prohibition is on any law respecting the establishment of any religion.


Will be laughing about this exchange for weeks.  Thanks.




SilverMark -> RE: Bishops Vow to Confront Obama Administration Over Abortion (11/15/2008 7:15:25 AM)

I'm just a bill on capitol hill....lol...school house rock...I loved those!...learned a few things as well!



HagiaSophia -> RE: Bishops Vow to Confront Obama Administration Over Abortion (11/15/2008 7:22:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

[sm=pole.gif]
quote:

Ttaxpayer funded abortion

Termynator


Uh, Termy, if you meant Medicaid, which is sometimes given to women receiving Welfare, the Feds prohibit states from offering this coverage (as if any would).
 
Just another way we screw over poor women here in the U.S., but hey, it's an unborn baby -- whoops, it's a rusty coathanger, sorry.
 
Peace out.
 
candystripper   [sm=pole.gif]


Candy is correct - in accordance with the Helms Amendment, federal funds have not been used to pay for abortions in the US since 1973 - this is one of those straw man arguments anti-choice people put out there without every having done their homework.



DomKen -> RE: Bishops Vow to Confront Obama Administration Over Abortion (11/15/2008 7:48:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evility

I'm still waiting for someone to show me something - anything - in the U.S. Constitution that mandates a separation of church and state.

That's pretty simple for those who can read.

Article VI and Ammendment I.

Or are you one of those who believe the lies David Barton has been peddling for the last couple of decades?



HagiaSophia -> RE: Bishops Vow to Confront Obama Administration Over Abortion (11/15/2008 7:50:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: HagiaSophia

I must go with Gloria Steinem on this one:

"If men could menstruate, abortion would be a sacrament."

If I wanted a bunch of men who wear dresses and won't fuck women to give me advice on sex, I'd find the nearest Drag show. With all respect to Drag Queens - I apologize for comparing you to sexless prunes (Bishops, not all Catholics) who want to ruin it for the rest of us.



You sound like they are threatening to call the cops on your party....wouldn't want to ruin all that fun, right?


If you're looking to score some point, please explain. You see, the Catholic Church has a well-entrenched habit of ruining people's fun when it comes to matters of sex, as well as women's rights. You know - women can't be priests, priests can't have sex because they bequeathed their vast estates (bought with the profits of selling indulgences) to their bastards and the Vatican lost out on a lot of money, money that belongs to God (apparently God has a lot of bills - all that lace and gold doesn't grow on trees, although you'd think he'd have fixed that); women should be subservient to men (remember that papal bull a few years ago equating feminism and equal rights with the downfall of civilization?); and spiritually bullying women over abortion (like the 13 year old impregnated by her father - Sorry kid, you have to give birth to your brother, or you'll go to Hell. Think it ruined her fun? You betcha!)

So yes, I consider my health, my right to choose when I reproduce, my ability to make money (which has increased significantly for women since RvW) and my dignity as a woman to be part of the "fun". But then again, I'm a conservative - I think small government means staying out of my uterus.



kdsub -> RE: Bishops Vow to Confront Obama Administration Over Abortion (11/15/2008 8:03:41 AM)

I believe churches are to teach the words of God...provide comfort in times of need...help the less fortunate...BUT stay the hell out of politics. A church or belief can change politics by example and that is how it should be.

Butch



Aylee -> RE: Bishops Vow to Confront Obama Administration Over Abortion (11/15/2008 8:06:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BbwCanaDomme

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

I feel like I've gone back in time. I can't  believe we are actually discussing this issue. We need more abortion, not less. There are too many people on the planet.


In some countries they allow a couple to have x amount of babies and they just kill the ones after that....maybe we could try that for a while and see how it works.


Whoa! I'm going to take a wild guess and say you've never left your country. I'm pretty sure there are no countries that do that.


China.



candystripper -> RE: Bishops Vow to Confront Obama Administration Over Abortion (11/15/2008 8:23:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evility

I have. Quote me the passage that mandates a separation of church and state.

I'll wait.



quote:

Musicmystery

Ever read the Bill of Rights?


Okay.  The government created under the U.S. Constitution has three branches: the Excutive Brand, the  Legislative Branch, and the Judicial Branch.
 
The U.S. Supreme Court has the final say on how the Constitution is to be applied or intreprepeted, unless a later Supreme Court decision overturns precdent, or the Constitution is amended. 
 
See Article III, Sections 1 and 2, of the Constitution:
 
Section 1. The judicial power of the United States, shall be vested in one Supreme Court, and in such inferior courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. (Editted.)

Section 2. The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States, and treaties made, or which shall be made, under their authority... (Editted.)
 
The phrase "separation of church and state" became a definitive part of Establishment Clause jurisprudence in Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (1947), a case which dealt with a state law that allowed the use of government funds for transportation to religious schools.
 
Thomas Jefferson is considered to be one of the Framers of the Constitution. Some folks believe we ought to be guided by the 'Intent of the Framers' when intrepretating the Constitution.
 
Jefferson said:
 
The phrase "[A] hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world" was first used by Baptist theologian Roger Williams, the founder of the colony of Rhode Island.[6][7] It was later used by Thomas Jefferson as a description of the First Amendment and its restriction on the legislative branch of the federal government, in an 1802 letter[8] to the Danbury Baptists (a religious minority concerned about the dominant position of the Congregationalist church in Connecticut), assuring that their rights as a religious minority would be protected from federal interference.
 
Whew, That gave me brain frezze, LOL. Class over, Evility.
 
So, whaca gonna do for me?  My carpets need vaccuuming, ROFLMAO.
 
candystripper   [sm=pole.gif]




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