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How to train a sub for 24/7 or is this just topping fro... - 11/15/2008 7:10:22 AM   
QuixoticOtaku


Posts: 18
Joined: 1/28/2007
Status: offline 		I'm just so frustrated. I wonder if I'm meant to be alone and should forget being a dominant. My skills need to be improved in so many areas and I get disrespected and told I'm doing it wrong by a prior and my current partner.

To back track, I am frustrated that my sub does not do the few chores I tell her to do every day.  It's just washing dishes a couple times a day, taking care of the cats' litter box, checking the voicemail and returning my calls, simple shit like that.  She does not do them consistently and sometimes I have to nag and nag before she does what are her responsibilities.

I've told her from the beginning that I want 24/7, and to be in charge.

She has said a few times that "everyone else says that partners are equal in D/s relationships".  I say that if she wants to be equal, she won't get it with me.  I'm a little more than ten years older, bring home most of the income, and pay all the bills so how is that equal?  To me, it's a power-exchange... I am more responsible, more experienced, and I have earned the role of being in charge.

Then she tells me that the reason she doesn't do the chores she is supposed to do, because I'm not training her.  I asked her how I could train her to check the voicemail and give me a call in the morning if I leave her a message to call me?  A lot of people manage to do that for their partner without "training" so wtf?

Don't get me wrong, the D/s is not just about her doing chores for me with nothing else.  But really, if a submissive doesn't do their more mundane tasks; I feel disrespected, unappreciated, and don't feel like sexing her up with whips and chains (so to speak).  Is coming home after work to an apartment just as messy or even more so than when you left it after your partner has been home all day very motivating to tie her up and give her masochistic pleasure?  I feel like screaming obscenities and getting out a can of whup-ass, but that might be rewarding poor behavior indirectly or just cross the line into abuse.

I'm sorry about the long rant, but thanks for listening and possibly giving me constructive feed-back.

< Message edited by QuixoticOtaku -- 11/15/2008 7:12:51 AM >
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: How to train a sub for 24/7 or is this just topping... - 11/15/2008 7:50:28 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Do you enjoy being nagged?  That is a serious question.  Being dominant is not actually about barking orders.  It is about inspiring someone to do things, it is about creating an environment where they want to do things for you.  And it does take two, both for it to succeed and for it to fail.

Worry less about the power exchange than about creating a healthy relationship, create that and the power exchange will work itself out.  You two seemed trapped in that all too common dynamic of "if only you were more submissive/dominant, I would be more dominant/submissive" and it is very much a trap.  You two need to sit down and decide if you really give a shit about each other, is being together something you truly want or are you a convenient meal ticket and or is she a good fuck/armcandy?

If you care about each other you need to figure out why she won't do some of the things you asked her to do.  Not the surface why but the deeper reasons.  Did she do them for others but not you or has she just always sucked at doing them?  If she did them for others, you need to uncover the reasons she isn't doing them for you and deal with them.  Is her not doing them some passive aggressive way of asking to get her needs met?  Or has she always sucked at doing them and you actually need to train her how to do them and figure out a way to make doing them internally important to her, not just  something to do because you want it.

Sometimes there are other issues than those driving things.  Perhaps there are things going on in her life that are distracting her?  Perhaps it is a call for attention.  That is pretty common thing, acting out to get attention, then you react and give attention.  Negative attention is a pretty common need among people who had crappy home lives.  It could be something like me and my partner who both suffer from ADHD, we tend to sort of bounce off the walls and remembering things is a very difficult chore.  Do you have these things written down, perhaps a check list if that seems to hit home.

And relax, we all went through what you are going through on one level or another.

(in reply to QuixoticOtaku)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: How to train a sub for 24/7 or is this just topping... - 11/15/2008 7:55:17 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: QuixoticOtaku

To back track, I am frustrated that my sub does not do the few chores I tell her to do every day.  It's just washing dishes a couple times a day, taking care of the cats' litter box, checking the voicemail and returning my calls, simple shit like that.  She does not do them consistently and sometimes I have to nag and nag before she does what are her responsibilities.


I can't help but wonder.... what is your dynamic in the first place.  As she committed to some sort of transfer of authority and as such accepted to be obedient to those things?  What authority desired to be transferred?

quote:


I've told her from the beginning that I want 24/7, and to be in charge.


great... but what did she say?

quote:


She has said a few times that "everyone else says that partners are equal in D/s relationships".  I say that if she wants to be equal, she won't get it with me.  I'm a little more than ten years older, bring home most of the income, and pay all the bills so how is that equal?  To me, it's a power-exchange... I am more responsible, more experienced, and I have earned the role of being in charge.


these comment from you tell me that your as much of the problem and maybe even more of the problem.  I suspect your getting the exact obedience you earned!

quote:


Then she tells me that the reason she doesn't do the chores she is supposed to do, because I'm not training her.  I asked her how I could train her to check the voicemail and give me a call in the morning if I leave her a message to call me?  A lot of people manage to do that for their partner without "training" so wtf?


yeah.. that's an extremely lame excuse... I had a girl that tried that one... Key word.."Had"  But... I will share with you some basics ideas of mine

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
DOMS = SUCCESS

D - Direction.  It is critical that each and every expectation to obey is clearly understood by the slave/submissive.  If it is not clearly understood, the slave/sub will be fortuanate to reach an expectation of the Master/Doms.  of course this is where communication is so critical.  My girls are instructed to always ask... What, Where, When & How in understanding clearly what I want.  They are not to take action to fulfill my instructions unless they feel confident that they understand what I want.  I in turn will do my best to ensure they clearly understand.  Often times when the expectation is not met, I have found that poor Direction was the fault.  We have come away thinking that they eveyone understood.  But, with some communicating.. there was a miscommunication that create a situation that lacked Clear Direction and thus it was doomed to fail.  Yes, there is faults to be laid.. sometimes it's the girls fault and sometimes it's mine.  However, what is more important is not laying blame but fixing the problem so that Direction is Clear!

O - Opportunity.  It is critical that any expectation/instruction given that they slave/sub has a reasonable opportunity to achieve it.  It is pointless to tell a slave/sub to paint the outside of the house in the next two weeks and it rains every day of those two weeks.  It's clear that the slave/sub doesn't have an chance to succeed.  When failure occurs... it's important for the Master/Dom to consider if the slave/sub had a reasonable opportunity to achieve success.  Keep in mind, that a sub/slave will also have there own opinion in this regard.  It's important to peel back the onion of failure and get to the heart.  Discard the excuses and accept the Reasons for failed opportunity to succeed.

M - Motivation.  Generally speaking this likely the hardest to establish.  However, unless a person is truly motivated to want to do the job it will not likely be achieved.  Putting half efforts extra are often times a question of motivation.  It could be a slave/sub doesn't agree with the decision etc.  and they are allowing their own judgement to affect their performance.  When it's a motivation problem, I consider it to be the most serious of the failures to success.  Poor motivation can make a relationship completely disfunctional.

S - Skill.  It is without question that the slave/sub needs to have the required ability to achieve the task at hand.  Sometimes judging the skill is more subjective than objective.  One must be honest with the skills one has.  A Master/Dom that attempts to have slave/sub perform a task or duty that is beyond their skill can do alot of Damage to the slave/subs esteem and the relationship in the long-term.  A slave/sub must be reasonable in what they think they can do. 

Success in my mind is depend on Direction, Opportunity, Motivation & Skill.   Consider carefully where you think you are failing.  Discuss it with your Master.  Do not focus on "YOU" but focus on the equation. 

D O M S  =  S U C C E S S

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now it really appears that you have an motivation problem... a problem that you both are contributing to.


_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to QuixoticOtaku)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: How to train a sub for 24/7 or is this just topping... - 11/15/2008 8:10:44 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		sooo..punish her for not doing as she's told. She's your 24/7 slave is she not?

Maybe she's acting out because she wants to see how far she can push you..some subs do this. They seem to like the thrill, the challenge and the attention.

Could be she's doing so so you'll "punish" her...meaning she wants you to play with her....

Or you just got screwed by a woman who was just saying what you wanted to hear so you'd be her boyfriend and just her boyfriend. Some women do this as well. It's the marriage syndrome; they tell you what you want to  hear, do whatever you want them to do, be who you want them to be and once you're married they turn into someone else completely.

I think you guys need to sit down and really talk and figure out what each other wants. It could be you both want different things at this point.

Good luck.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: How to train a sub for 24/7 or is this just topping... - 11/15/2008 8:31:14 AM   
SirMIkeSD


Posts: 613
Joined: 3/16/2007
From: San Diego, Ca
Status: offline 		Maybe you or both of you are not cut out for D/s.

quote:

I'm a little more than ten years older, bring home most of the income, and pay all the bills so how is that equal?


This has nothing to do with making you the Dom.

quote:

To me, it's a power-exchange... I am more responsible, more experienced, and I have earned the role of being in charge.


More experienced in what, certainly not D/s. Do you have more play experience, that does not make you a Dom.

quote:

sexing her up with whips and chains


It's not about sex, yes play can lead to sex. But it's not about sex.

Mike

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: How to train a sub for 24/7 or is this just topping... - 11/15/2008 8:43:15 AM   
VampiresLair


Posts: 1307
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline 		I am along the same thoughts as SirMikeSD.
It doesnt sound like either of you are cut out for a Power Exchange. Making more money and being older does not make you dominant. Fox will eventually make more money that I do, but I am damn sure our dynamic wont change.  There are relationships all over the worl where th woman makes more than the man, but is submissive to him and also where the man is the sub even if he is the breadwinner.
Asinde from telling her what you want and then nagging when you do not get it, how have you tried to enforce your control? Whining and nagging does not make someone look in control, it makes them look weak becasue they have no way to actual enforce their decisions. If she doesnt do as she is told, take away her priveledges like you would a child. Unplug th eTV and get one of those lockout covers for the electrical cord so she cannot plug it back in while you are gone. Find out what is distracting her from her chores and remove it.
What happens in every other relationship should have no bearing on yours and if that is how she is viewing things then you are in trouble from the get go. She is covetous, and that will be problematic. If everyone else gets to play she will want to play a certain way. If a group gets proposed to, she will expect it as well. You want to live your own relationship, not keep up with the jonses.

My opinion.
DV



_____________________________

Separately we are DiurnalVampire and DVsFox

10/18 Wedding date. 1 year and still blissfully happy

10/13/10 3 year anniversary of his becoming my Fox

Talk impolitely to me, baby - Thanks sunshinemiss



(in reply to SirMIkeSD)
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RE: How to train a sub for 24/7 or is this just topping... - 11/15/2008 8:58:06 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

I am more responsible, more experienced, and I have earned the role of being in charge.

Really?  You sure about that?

People who whine about being in charge rarely are.  People who are in charge rarely whine.

Do you prefer Brie or Camembert?  Or perhaps a smoked Gouda?


_____________________________



(in reply to QuixoticOtaku)
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RE: How to train a sub for 24/7 or is this just topping... - 11/15/2008 10:04:33 AM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

She has said a few times that "everyone else says that partners are equal in D/s relationships".


Hey Quix,
One way to explain her misconception is that in a BDSM relationship, the partners are equal in worth but NOT equal in power. If she insists on being equal in power with you, no BDSM relationship is possible.

If she is in this only for the masochistic pleasure you can provide for her, you are being used for her desires and she is too immature or uncaring to do her part to deserve those pleasures.

Finally, respect is not something you deserve just because you are the Dom. Respect has to be earned. You are letting her walk all over you, it's not surprising she does not respect you. A Dom does not moan and complain when their demands are not met. And certainly losing your cool and abusing her is definitely not the way to go (potential lawsuit there).

I don't know if you have what it takes to be a Dominant or not. But I will say this, unless you are both willing to change, you are not the Dominant for HER. Doesn't mean someone else wouldn't fit with you much better.

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to QuixoticOtaku)
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RE: How to train a sub for 24/7 or is this just topping... - 11/15/2008 10:21:28 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Has she always had trouble doing things regularly? Because if so, then I'm betting on ADD/ADHD and you can't beat an illness out of people. Send her to the doctor for a physical telling him she can't focus, get a referral to a psychologist for testing.

Because if it is a physical/psychological problem then both of you are going to be more and more frustrated for no reason. Right now you don't know what the problem is, so of course you can't solve it. Remember a symptom can be caused by many different things and all you have now is a symptom.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to SirDominic)
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RE: How to train a sub for 24/7 or is this just topping... - 11/15/2008 10:29:13 AM   
MasterTslave


Posts: 200
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline 		maybe you are just an ass about the whole thing?  I do what my Master tells me to do, but he doesn't shout orders to me, he asks me to do things and he cares (or at least acts like he cares) about what I have done for Him.  Do you ever thank her for doing things for you?  Do you want a sub or do you want a personal assistant?  JMO

(in reply to QuixoticOtaku)
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RE: How to train a sub for 24/7 or is this just topping... - 11/15/2008 10:44:01 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: QuixoticOtaku
I'm a little more than ten years older, bring home most of the income, and pay all the bills so how is that equal?  To me, it's a power-exchange... I am more responsible, more experienced, and I have earned the role of being in charge.
You think that makes you Dominant? By your description a lot submissives here are actually the Dominant. <sheesh>

Under a lot of circumstances, I would say that you're probably not a good fit. But, judging from the attitude that you're displaying, I give you at least half of the fault. A submissive is only as good as their Dominant. The same way that the behavior if a child reflects on the parent.

Stop beating your chest for awhile and focus on the two of you creating a healthy relationship.

And BTW the way, you should start with dropping the "I make more money than you, so you're a peon" attitude. It's obviously not working.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to QuixoticOtaku)
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RE: How to train a sub for 24/7 or is this just topping... - 11/15/2008 10:46:15 AM   
bamabbwsub


Posts: 566
Joined: 5/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

She has said a few times that "everyone else says that partners are equal in D/s relationships".

I'm a little more than ten years older, bring home most of the income, and pay all the bills so how is that equal?


Without more information, it's hard to say what the actual problem is, although it's clear that there is, indeed, a problem.

I'm wondering...Does she work a full-time job? If so, maybe she resents the fact that, even though she doesn't "bring home most of the income, and pay all the bills," she is still expected to work all day, and then take care of the house when she gets home. D/s or not, 24/7 or not, submissive or not...most women resent this. If I were in her situation, I would feel that it was unfair to be expected to do "chores" like a little kid, even though I went to work every day just like my partner. Just because you're older and bring home more money doesn't mean that you shouldn't pull your weight around the house when you get home. Maybe that's what she means by being "equal."

As some have expressed, I would recommend that you try to determine if you have a good relationship without the D/s elements, and then let the natural dominance and submissiveness, if it's there to begin with, come to the fore.

Best of luck to you.

_____________________________

"Everyone is normal until you get to know them." - Dave Sim

I rescue animals. My pockets and gas tank are always empty. My home is always hairy and my inbox full of sadness, but my heart is full when seeing those that are saved.

(in reply to MasterTslave)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: How to train a sub for 24/7 or is this just topping... - 11/15/2008 10:56:41 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		What is she doing all day if she's home there and not getting done what needs to be done?  Is she online?  Is she out shopping?  Is she sleeping all day?  What she IS doing could be an indicator of what one/some of the underlying problem(s) might be. 

Is she a procrastinator?  Lazy?  Rebellious?  Depressed?  Apathetic? Is she a S.A.M. ?  Could it be ADHD/ADD, and the days are getting away from her while she is running around doing things that she keeps half-doing until you come home and she realizes she's done nothing? 

These are just some of the things I would, personally, expect a Master who has a slave/submissive 24/7 might know about the one they own.  If you can't answer the questions, have no clue, have had no interest in finding out - then perhaps one of the problems migh be that at least one of you just isn't that invested in the dynamic.





< Message edited by WinsomeDefiance -- 11/15/2008 10:59:34 AM >

(in reply to MasterTslave)
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RE: How to train a sub for 24/7 or is this just topping... - 11/15/2008 11:04:48 AM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

Then she tells me that the reason she doesn't do the chores she is supposed to do, because I'm not training her. 


How old is this gal?  Has she ever lived on her own? If so, did she have a maid or just live in a pigsty?  How hard is it to wash your own dishes or clean a litter box.  Bet when single she clearly knew how to get her own voice mail.

Gimme a break.  She is lazy and lounging all day while you are at work?  Did you consider asking her if she has depression? She needs medication in that case, not woop-ass. 

Make a list of chores to do, in plain sight, in black and white.  If they are not done she must be aware that her free ride is soon over.  Besides, how can anyone feel horny with the stench of catbox in their nostils and knowing there are dishes growing mold?  IF her only duty is taking care of a home-space for your pleasure and she is not doing so....OUT damned spot, OUT.



_____________________________

It hurts.....that you call me a masochist


(in reply to bamabbwsub)
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RE: How to train a sub for 24/7 or is this just topping... - 11/15/2008 11:19:09 AM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		Is she young?  Has she ever had to take care of herself and her home?  Did she do a good job?  Or did she live in filth?

I do chores because I don't want to live in a pigsty and if I don't do them, they don't get done.  I make sure my kids do their chores, because I'm trying to teach them that living in a clean home is preferable to living in a pigsty (among other things).

Aside from that, have you two actually sat down and discussed what you each want from the relationship?  It seems like she is caught up in fantasies... that you "training" her will magically make her do chores.  What does she expect you to do, hypnotize her so chores will get done???

Cali



_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
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RE: How to train a sub for 24/7 or is this just topping... - 11/15/2008 12:07:42 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		I recommend you read this thread. There is a lot of good information in both of them. Stephann also started a thread some time ago about "how to get a girl" or something along those lines. I did a search but couldn't find it. Perhaps he will come to this thread and link it. Doing a search on his name and reading some of his posts will likely prove to be beneficial, however; he has a lot of good and well thought out things to say.

Aside from that, I believe a discussion is in order, about what you both want from this relationship. If you are aligned, then something is going wrong to achieve it, and then you can begin figuring out what that is. If you are not aligned, then you are likely not a good fit for each other. But beginning with that basic is a good way to go from here.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to QuixoticOtaku)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: How to train a sub for 24/7 or is this just topping... - 11/15/2008 12:20:18 PM   
mbes


Posts: 465
Joined: 12/14/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: QuixoticOtaku

I'm just so frustrated. I wonder if I'm meant to be alone and should forget being a dominant. My skills need to be improved in so many areas and I get disrespected and told I'm doing it wrong by a prior and my current partner.

To back track, I am frustrated that my sub does not do the few chores I tell her to do every day. It's just washing dishes a couple times a day, taking care of the cats' litter box, checking the voicemail and returning my calls, simple shit like that. She does not do them consistently and sometimes I have to nag and nag before she does what are her responsibilities.

I've told her from the beginning that I want 24/7, and to be in charge.

She has said a few times that "everyone else says that partners are equal in D/s relationships". I say that if she wants to be equal, she won't get it with me. I'm a little more than ten years older, bring home most of the income, and pay all the bills so how is that equal? To me, it's a power-exchange... I am more responsible, more experienced, and I have earned the role of being in charge.

Then she tells me that the reason she doesn't do the chores she is supposed to do, because I'm not training her. I asked her how I could train her to check the voicemail and give me a call in the morning if I leave her a message to call me? A lot of people manage to do that for their partner without "training" so wtf?

Don't get me wrong, the D/s is not just about her doing chores for me with nothing else. But really, if a submissive doesn't do their more mundane tasks; I feel disrespected, unappreciated, and don't feel like sexing her up with whips and chains (so to speak). Is coming home after work to an apartment just as messy or even more so than when you left it after your partner has been home all day very motivating to tie her up and give her masochistic pleasure? I feel like screaming obscenities and getting out a can of whup-ass, but that might be rewarding poor behavior indirectly or just cross the line into abuse.

I'm sorry about the long rant, but thanks for listening and possibly giving me constructive feed-back.

~fr~
You've left some out. WHY doesn't she get the things done that you want her to do? Does she want you to show her that you mean it? Does she work from home, and so gets busy beyond what she had planned? Is the eating bonbons and watching soaps while ignoring you? Bunch of rugrats? Does she just flat not want to?
There's a reason beyond her statement that you aren't training her.
It does sound as though perhaps you just aren't well matched. No harm, no foul; that just means working with it or finding someone else.
As for the bolded part, no, I wouldn't agree that you've earned it by any of those factors. The only way to "earn" it is to find someone who agrees to give it to you. For instance, you earning the money to pay her bills COULD be considered "tribute", and make you the sub. It's all in how you both see things.

(in reply to QuixoticOtaku)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: How to train a sub for 24/7 or is this just topping... - 11/15/2008 12:20:19 PM   
SadysticJester


Posts: 122
Joined: 6/24/2008
Status: offline 		you lead by example,,if you want something done be prepared to do it yourself and to show her exactly how its to be done,praise her for doing it so and admonish her for getting it wrong,over time if it keeps up then the punishment aspect comes into play,,depending on the person whether physical and or mental will work best to achieve the desired results...as for your whining,,,,that will get you nowhere except to yell out to your partner that you are not in control of yourself little alone her......just my opinion..

_____________________________

The fool may seem a Fool to some,but take care to fully explore what the Fool has to say,They are not foolish words...
SadysticJester

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: How to train a sub for 24/7 or is this just topping... - 11/15/2008 1:51:19 PM   
Ph0enixF1re


Posts: 91
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline 		I'll admit up front that I didn't read everything, so if this has already been said.....bring on the department of redundancy department :)

You have to take control or you aren't dominant at all.  Simple as that.

Also, I have found that a coax cable across the back of the thighs works wonders.
Just make sure she doesn't have an OB/GYN appointment in the next two weeks (oops!).

(in reply to QuixoticOtaku)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: How to train a sub for 24/7 or is this just topping... - 11/15/2008 1:59:47 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

I recommend you read this thread. There is a lot of good information in both of them. Stephann also started a thread some time ago about "how to get a girl" or something along those lines. I did a search but couldn't find it. Perhaps he will come to this thread and link it. Doing a search on his name and reading some of his posts will likely prove to be beneficial, however; he has a lot of good and well thought out things to say.

Aside from that, I believe a discussion is in order, about what you both want from this relationship. If you are aligned, then something is going wrong to achieve it, and then you can begin figuring out what that is. If you are not aligned, then you are likely not a good fit for each other. But beginning with that basic is a good way to go from here.


Here is the link for Stephann's thread, which I was looking for (thanks, Stephann!)

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Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to NuevaVida)
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