sub or "patsy"? (Full Version)

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keptcaged -> sub or "patsy"? (12/20/2005 10:45:42 PM)

ok, there's a bit of back story to this but i'll try to be concise.

It occured to me today that there is an age old problem with submales that most of us have probably first encountered in high school. You're the"nice guy" you're "SWEET" ARRGGHHHH! NOT F%CKING SWEET!
Inside i want to say,"i'm not sweet, i'm trying to get you to slap me and make me carry your books!"

Present tense. There is a Woman. Former stripper. Very street wise! WE hit it off instantly. She left her hubby of 7 years for a young stud who turned out to be a stoner. She feels like she has to stay involved with him because she "paid for him" with her marriage. To waslk away now would me it was a huge loss. (she confirmed this opinion when i tried to help her out of a funk)
We meet in a professional setting. Hit it off INSTANTLY. Being a little jaded she knows EXACTLY the effect she has on guys, why and how and will tell you so. One day out of the blue she mentions she's bi and was a stripper. Soon i throw in my sub nature. a few weeks go by and we have great sex and relationship talks. Today we sat in a froofroo restaurant talking about gags and anal sex, etc. and i'm realizing that there isn't that gleem in her i like she wants to do all this with me. Jusst someday with somebody.
i took her to this great little restaurant for her b.day. i want to buy her gifts and wait on her and take care of her. As she expresses a desire to be"in control" and "get into bondage" i first u, great, act like a slave and you'll be seen as one.
Instead, i think she wants to do the stoner with a strap on and i'm not even in the picture.
Am i just a patsy, never a slave?
One time on the phone she was ranting and i just said, half joking, "Calm the fuck down." and she said someting like, Oooh I like it when you're forceful. That made me think she's talking all Femdom trying to "induce" a reaction from me...however, if true that would make me an ....aggressive sub? Is there such a thing?
my head hurts.......i am so drawn to her....we are like two deviant peas in a deviant pod. i'd let her shit on me but i don't want to get shit on. Comprende?
Any thoughts?
keptcaged



MHOO314 -> RE: sub or "patsy"? (12/21/2005 7:30:18 AM)

i'd let her shit on me but i don't want to get shit on.


Think you already answered your question---



AAkasha -> RE: sub or "patsy"? (12/21/2005 9:50:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: keptcaged

ok, there's a bit of back story to this but i'll try to be concise.

It occured to me today that there is an age old problem with submales that most of us have probably first encountered in high school. You're the"nice guy" you're "SWEET" ARRGGHHHH! NOT F%CKING SWEET!
Inside i want to say,"i'm not sweet, i'm trying to get you to slap me and make me carry your books!"

Present tense. There is a Woman. Former stripper. Very street wise! WE hit it off instantly. She left her hubby of 7 years for a young stud who turned out to be a stoner. She feels like she has to stay involved with him because she "paid for him" with her marriage. To waslk away now would me it was a huge loss. (she confirmed this opinion when i tried to help her out of a funk)
We meet in a professional setting. Hit it off INSTANTLY. Being a little jaded she knows EXACTLY the effect she has on guys, why and how and will tell you so. One day out of the blue she mentions she's bi and was a stripper. Soon i throw in my sub nature. a few weeks go by and we have great sex and relationship talks. Today we sat in a froofroo restaurant talking about gags and anal sex, etc. and i'm realizing that there isn't that gleem in her i like she wants to do all this with me. Jusst someday with somebody.
i took her to this great little restaurant for her b.day. i want to buy her gifts and wait on her and take care of her. As she expresses a desire to be"in control" and "get into bondage" i first u, great, act like a slave and you'll be seen as one.
Instead, i think she wants to do the stoner with a strap on and i'm not even in the picture.
Am i just a patsy, never a slave?
One time on the phone she was ranting and i just said, half joking, "Calm the fuck down." and she said someting like, Oooh I like it when you're forceful. That made me think she's talking all Femdom trying to "induce" a reaction from me...however, if true that would make me an ....aggressive sub? Is there such a thing?
my head hurts.......i am so drawn to her....we are like two deviant peas in a deviant pod. i'd let her shit on me but i don't want to get shit on. Comprende?
Any thoughts?
keptcaged


As a femdom I can say there are men I know and like but I would never want to dominate them. She just might not be into you in that way.

And yes -- for me, at least, a guy who appears to sort of "willingly" already submit, or kiss my ass, or if I knew I could get him to do anything at the snap of my fingers I'm far less interested in. I want there to be some sort of a spine/backbone. She sees the stoner boy as a challenge.

Or, it's just a lack of chemitry.

Akasha



keptcaged -> RE: sub or "patsy"? (12/21/2005 10:36:48 AM)

Thank You Akasha!
OMG..you are an icon in my book!
Ya know, that's what i thought too....i know how to "play it", it's just tough because it's "opposing head spaces" if you will.
I guess it would be for the Dom.....You want to go hunting (yuk, but let's pretend), so you've got an itch to kill Bambi. You just go to leave and somebody delivers a dead deer to your doorstep and says, so whadya think?
If i don't run she can't chase me and hogtie me.
Thanks! i needed that.

keptcaged



MasterBenedict -> RE: sub or "patsy"? (12/23/2005 11:02:03 PM)

I personally think that if you DON'T want to make it work you can't blame anybody but yourself



thetammyjo -> RE: sub or "patsy"? (12/24/2005 7:11:45 AM)

I think you just haven't found the person you are compatible with.

But furthermore I'd say you are falling into a trap I see with some submissives -- settling.

Before he met me, Fox tells me that he "settled" routinely for someone who appeared to be dominant when they were really users, appeared to want his service when they just wanted his money, escort to a party, etc. In short, in his desire and need to submit he often found himself settling for people who frankly he wasn't compatible with and who weren't even in the "scene" in an consensual sense of how I define it.

I have another friend who is very careful to screen out abusers and users because she too feels this submissive drive but is older and has learned through being burned numerous times. She finds a good "fix" in volunteering for charities and organizations, helping out her friends, while she looks for a compatible relationship.

Just a suggestion.




addcted2it -> RE: sub or "patsy"? (12/24/2005 10:54:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: keptcaged

Am i just a patsy, never a slave?

One time on the phone she was ranting and i just said, half joking, "Calm the fuck down." and she said someting like, Oooh I like it when you're forceful. That made me think she's talking all Femdom trying to "induce" a reaction from me...however, if true that would make me an ....aggressive sub? Is there such a thing?
my head hurts.......i am so drawn to her....we are like two deviant peas in a deviant pod. i'd let her shit on me but i don't want to get shit on. Comprende? Any thoughts?

keptcaged


Yeah, and my thought is this: I wish I had a dollar for every time my heart was stomped on. How old are you? This woman is taking you on a roller coaster ride. You have free will to choose whether or not to go along. But will the track come loose, or will the scaffolding crumble underneath you? Probably so. Just because you think that you have some sort of chemestry going here doesn't mean that she feels the same way. She's obvioulsy hung up on this guy and you're not going to change that. Hang in there at your own risk, or get over it and move on.

- addicted2it



FelinePersuasion -> RE: sub or "patsy"? (12/25/2005 10:26:13 PM)

My bigest concernw ould be how untrust worthy she was for leaving her husband for another man, then not liking the man she left for and feeling stuck so she's aparently talking to other subs



subfever -> RE: sub or "patsy"? (12/26/2005 11:15:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: keptcaged

ok, there's a bit of back story to this but i'll try to be concise.

It occured to me today that there is an age old problem with submales that most of us have probably first encountered in high school. You're the"nice guy" you're "SWEET" ARRGGHHHH! NOT F%CKING SWEET!
Inside i want to say,"i'm not sweet, i'm trying to get you to slap me and make me carry your books!"

Present tense. There is a Woman. Former stripper. Very street wise! WE hit it off instantly. She left her hubby of 7 years for a young stud who turned out to be a stoner. She feels like she has to stay involved with him because she "paid for him" with her marriage. To waslk away now would me it was a huge loss. (she confirmed this opinion when i tried to help her out of a funk)
We meet in a professional setting. Hit it off INSTANTLY. Being a little jaded she knows EXACTLY the effect she has on guys, why and how and will tell you so. One day out of the blue she mentions she's bi and was a stripper. Soon i throw in my sub nature. a few weeks go by and we have great sex and relationship talks. Today we sat in a froofroo restaurant talking about gags and anal sex, etc. and i'm realizing that there isn't that gleem in her i like she wants to do all this with me. Jusst someday with somebody.
i took her to this great little restaurant for her b.day. i want to buy her gifts and wait on her and take care of her. As she expresses a desire to be"in control" and "get into bondage" i first u, great, act like a slave and you'll be seen as one.
Instead, i think she wants to do the stoner with a strap on and i'm not even in the picture.
Am i just a patsy, never a slave?
One time on the phone she was ranting and i just said, half joking, "Calm the fuck down." and she said someting like, Oooh I like it when you're forceful. That made me think she's talking all Femdom trying to "induce" a reaction from me...however, if true that would make me an ....aggressive sub? Is there such a thing?
my head hurts.......i am so drawn to her....we are like two deviant peas in a deviant pod. i'd let her shit on me but i don't want to get shit on. Comprende?
Any thoughts?
keptcaged


My guess is you're trying to take this woman to a place that she's not really sure she wants to go. While she may have rationally contemplated dominating a man, she may not have emotionally connected to the idea yet.

Go back to the beginning. You said you hit it off instantly with her. Exactly what were the circumstances and interchanges during this meeting? This should give you plenty of insight as to what this woman really finds attractive. Did you behave like a wuss, or more like an alpha-male?

Also, consider the clue of her later remark "Oooh I like it when you're forceful." While it may have just been a test, my guess is that this woman will more likely prefer being dominated as opposed to doing the dominating! Think about this a moment. After all, she left her husband for a young stud... not a sub!

It's quite possible that what this woman needs more than anything is a man who provides a challenge to her, which may explain why she left hubby in the first place.

subfever



deadlyangel -> RE: sub or "patsy"? (9/27/2006 4:20:33 PM)

Posted to wrong spot.



LotusSong -> RE: sub or "patsy"? (9/27/2006 4:25:10 PM)

"Don't let your desires be your damnation"- Mistress Steele
 
Stand back, take a breath and evaluate the situation.



topcat -> RE: sub or "patsy"? (9/27/2006 4:37:42 PM)

Dear KC-

quote:

Former stripper


quote:

Hit it off INSTANTLY


quote:

One day out of the blue she mentions she's bi and was a stripper.


quote:

Today we sat in a froofroo restaurant talking about gags and anal sex, etc.


quote:

i took her to this great little restaurant for her b.day.


Once a stripper, always a stripper. Her job was seeming interesting to, and interested in, random males and keeping that going while sorting them out of their cash. She's a bit oversexualized, and has heard of SM, and thinks it sounds kinda cool, but has never really persued it...
 
Here, I would haveta say 'patsy'. Cest la vie.
 
Stay warm,
Lawrence

PS- This is not meant to be a slam on strippers- over the years, I have supported my share of 'single moms'<g>- rather, a general obsevation on the way one's personality is shaped by the life...



deadlyangel -> RE: sub or "patsy"? (9/27/2006 4:39:01 PM)

Posted to wrong spot sorry 



deadlyangel -> RE: sub or "patsy"? (9/27/2006 4:47:32 PM)

Seems to me to be a recipe for disaster. People like that have no loyalty and probably nothing you can do will change that. Trust me on this, I've been there. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that there is quite an age difference am i right? Based on what you've said, I'd be curious to know what makes you think you could rock her world and why you woudn't get hurt in the end? In my experience people like that will shit on you and laugh in your face at the same time. She's playing you. She knows she'll get a reaction and she is. You repeatedly say "we hit it off instantly" Are you friends and I mean do you know anything about her beyond the beyond the bullshit she's feeding you? She's taking you for a ride. You must have "LOSER" written on your forehead.  It is sad that that is the kind of relationship you would want. I truly believe people are judged by the company they keep and I wouldn't want that kind of judgement. You've really said nothing good about this person. What does she have going for her other than I'm assuming, her looks or you would not want to be buying her gifts and taking care of her. The looks fade and for your sake I hope that there is somethng beyond that because bottom line after all the play and fun with that type of person, life is a pretty cold and lonely and empty place. Take it from me I've been there. I ruined and lost the best things in my life for something "I thought I could make happen".  If that's what makes you tick and that's a risk you'd be willing to take than more power to ya. Definetely sounds one sided to me. That being said I would have to say "patsy" in this case. Sorry. I mean no offense to you. Just talking from my own experience and regrets. People like that just make my skin crawl. Usually no good will come of it but hey, to each his own. Good Luck. I think you'll need it. Again, I apologize if I have offended you in any way. Not the intent.



Celeste43 -> RE: sub or "patsy"? (9/28/2006 3:38:13 AM)

I don't see where she says she's dominant. Nor do I see you saying she demanded you take her out, buy her gifts for her birthday. If a friend took me out for my birthday, I wouldn't think I was "using" them. I do see her wanting only friendship from you. Even hot bodied ex strippers need friends, and perhaps they need them more than most because the only people they meet are interested in them for their outsides, not their hearts and souls.

I suggest talking openly to her and asking her if she is dominant, if she is attracted to you, or if she just wants to continue as friends.



Lashra -> RE: sub or "patsy"? (9/28/2006 5:08:04 AM)

It doesn't sound like you two are on the same wavelength. My advice is to keep looking, it sounds to me like this woman has some emotional ties that she's not willing to give up. Also I'm thinking she is using your chats to get all fired up about Domination and her fantasy has her stoner as the sub.

You deserve better, the Lady you seek is out there you just need to keep searching.

Good luck,
~Lashra



demistress -> RE: sub or "patsy"? (9/28/2006 5:49:10 AM)

Nothing personal, but it sounds like on a 'sexiness' level she's out of your league, and on a maturity one, you're out of hers.  Personally I'm not against inter-league games, but you're not going to win championships that way *grin*



LASub4Real -> RE: sub or "patsy"? (9/28/2006 12:22:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FelinePersuasion

My bigest concernw ould be how untrust worthy she was for leaving her husband for another man, then not liking the man she left for and feeling stuck so she's aparently talking to other subs


Exactly my thought. If you were talking to a friend and he told you that he was kind of dating this ex-stripper who just left her husband for some young stud who ended up having a drug problem but that she was now having trouble choosing between your friend and the druggie, although she did sleep with the friend, what would you tell him?

Character and trust are such a big parts of any relationship. If you think you can make one work without them, have at it, but you will not have been the first to try.

LAsub



RumpusParable -> RE: sub or "patsy"? (9/28/2006 1:39:22 PM)

I have to agree with those that say it sounds like you two are simply on different pages.  She sounds like she is only discussing these ideas with you as a friend who she can and isn't trying to mislead you.  Appears that she likes spending time with you, is comfortable discussing BDSM and sexual matters, but doesn't feel a "spark" to dominate -whether you personally or in general at this time.

If you feel the need, just speak to her directly about it to straighten it all out.



Missokyst -> RE: sub or "patsy"? (9/28/2006 5:52:20 PM)

I used to talk to a male sub in a similar way as your lady speaks with you. 

I was being me..  Just a wicked minded, sensually twisted woman who doesn't mind talking openly about what I do.  Considering that she is a stripper, I suspect she is also relaxed about sensuality.

I knew that this male sub was interested in me.  And I will admit it was fun to push those buttons.  But soon enough, much as I liked him, it came down to openly admitting that he wanted things I did not.

So I tried to direct it another way.  I mentioned other men, or tried things to get him to recognise I was sub, not domme, and had no real intent to become a domme.  He never seemed to get the hint.  After a while I came right out with it, but he continued to live in hope. 
I finally had to stop our friendship and back away.

Sometimes what we want seems so perfect that it just feels like it MUST work.  But if you notice that someone is trying to take it off track, you should accept that it may not be what THEY need from you.  Perhaps she really enjoys your friendship. 
Wouldnt it be a shame to lose that?
Kyst



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