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Do I talk to you? Not talk to you? - 11/17/2008 7:11:50 AM

MsFlutter

Posts: 1305
Joined: 11/12/2008
From: East Coast
Status: offline

Forgive the structure of this inquiry but I love the insights I've found on this forum. It seems there is (for good reason) no definitive answer but perspective is greatly appreciated.

Note: I realize that some relationships are so finely-tuned that discussion of this doesnt even apply.

Things have quieted a bit. You have transitioned from busy-work-a-day person to submissive in the care of your Dom/me. Until/unless a mindmeld is an option, your reaction (vocal or otherwise) is the unit of measurement for the person entrusted with your power.

As the scene progresses and the intensity rises, are you vocal in reaction to the Dom/me's implement of choice or are you quiet - reaching for the edges of subspace. Do you hear us articulating to you what we fully intend to do and do you find that reassuring? If we ask, should it be considered rhetorical unless its a question concerning welfare? Do we talk? Do we not talk? Do we ask or just let you float?

A 'normal' gauge to action is reaction. Sometimes going quiet can be interpreted as 'tolerating' the attentions of the moment. In reality it could well be progression to subspace. What is the least jarring method of determining that?

_____________________________

'Dont torture yourself, Gomez darling. That's my job' Morticia Addams

"The right data, filtered through an idiot, can yield a bad answer." einstien5201

Post #: 1

RE: Do I talk to you? Not talk to you? - 11/17/2008 9:50:24 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Body language. Personally when in subspace I become a rag doll, totally limp and relaxed. If I'm not responding because I'm in a bad headspace or trying to get through something while gritting my teeth, I'm tense. All muscles tensed up and a slight touch elicits a reaction out of proportion to the cause.

But I can respond if I'm not spaced. Even if I can't talk. See if I'm unable to talk due to emotions, then if he says "Are you okay?", I will shake my head violently. Whereas if spaced, I may answer a question five or ten minutes later and my voice is slurred, while very often my response isn't exactly to the point.

One reason not to go to the edgiest possible play with a brand new partner is that you don't know their body language. It helps to learn it first.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to MsFlutter)

Post #: 2

RE: Do I talk to you? Not talk to you? - 11/17/2008 11:32:47 AM

WestBaySlave

Posts: 501
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline

Unlike many, I don't have a sharp divide between sub-space and everyday life, but I do tend to get quiet if I'm into a scene, and find it hard to hold a conversation and be verbal - I've had a couple guys think I was having a bad time when I really wasn't.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 3

RE: Do I talk to you? Not talk to you? - 11/17/2008 11:38:22 AM

littleone35

Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline

There is no way i can hold a conversation. I am however VERY vocal amd Master lets that guide him. Of course after almost 3 years he knows what to do to get a vocal reacation. The 2 things i can usually say is Master and please. Other then those 2 worrds i am pretty much incoherent. Master does not tell me what he is going to do he just does it and i perfer that so i am glad he does that. Master can tell if i am going into subspace and he does not ask when i get more quiet than usual he can tell.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to WestBaySlave)

Post #: 4

RE: Do I talk to you? Not talk to you? - 11/17/2008 11:42:33 AM

WestBaySlave

Posts: 501
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsFlutter

As the scene progresses and the intensity rises, are you vocal in reaction to the Dom/me's implement of choice or are you quiet - reaching for the edges of subspace. Do you hear us articulating to you what we fully intend to do and do you find that reassuring? If we ask, should it be considered rhetorical unless its a question concerning welfare?

I don't like to be asked "Is it okay if I-" or "Would you like it if-" type of questions in a scene. Asking if I'm okay say, after the infliction of serious pain is okay and sensible, but all in all I don't like the feeling that I'm in control of a scene, or worse, get the impression that my dom doesn't know what they're doing and they need my advice.

These are just my personal feelings on the matter though; others, obviously, may feel differently.

(in reply to MsFlutter)

Post #: 5

RE: Do I talk to you? Not talk to you? - 11/17/2008 12:04:12 PM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline

Oh yes, talk... talk in a low, deep tone, keep me connected mentally to you. Questions? Nothing that needs more than a yes or a no, and nothing that needs lots of deep thinking... and you may not get a verbal yes/no but a head nod/shake or even sign language finger motions for yes/no.

Cali

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to WestBaySlave)

Post #: 6

RE: Do I talk to you? Not talk to you? - 11/17/2008 3:33:25 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

I think there's a time and a place for the talk. Sometimes he's quiet and doesn't say a word, other times he's whispering in my ear what he's going to do or what I am, etc..and both have an effect on me depending on what space I am in.

As for my own space that depends on how far I'm falling and how he's tormenting me. Sometimes he pulls me back so that I am not going deep, other times he allows me and wants me to go deeper.

When I'm in a deep space I get quiet and I'm completely floating, spaced out and while I hear what he is saying or doing, it seems distance and foggy but yet enjoyable.

When I'm not deep and it just plain hurts then I'm vocal and wanting him to stop whatever he is doing but yet knowing I don't want him to and it's a confusing situation to be in when the heart and mind are in conflict.

(in reply to CalifChick)

Post #: 7

RE: Do I talk to you? Not talk to you? - 11/17/2008 3:56:00 PM

whiteslavebitch

Posts: 479
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WestBaySlave

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsFlutter

As the scene progresses and the intensity rises, are you vocal in reaction to the Dom/me's implement of choice or are you quiet - reaching for the edges of subspace. Do you hear us articulating to you what we fully intend to do and do you find that reassuring? If we ask, should it be considered rhetorical unless its a question concerning welfare?

I don't like to be asked "Is it okay if I-" or "Would you like it if-" type of questions in a scene. Asking if I'm okay say, after the infliction of serious pain is okay and sensible, but all in all I don't like the feeling that I'm in control of a scene, or worse, get the impression that my dom doesn't know what they're doing and they need my advice.

These are just my personal feelings on the matter though; others, obviously, may feel differently.

That's pretty much how I feel about it as well.

_____________________________

MasterK's whiteslavebitch

formally collared 1/30/09

"I give to you my everything, you've given me these loving wings." - DMB

(in reply to WestBaySlave)

Post #: 8

RE: Do I talk to you? Not talk to you? - 11/17/2008 4:10:11 PM

daddysliloneds

Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline

just about the only time anyone finds me not being vocal is while deep in scene; the closer i get to riding the edge of subspace, the quieter i become...

just about the most you can get out of me is a 'yummm', or 'purrrr'.

when asked if 'it's too much', it takes every ounce of focus i can muster to do anything other than a nod or head shake and sometimes i can't do that either.

i love for my partner to talk to me, in a quiet voice, but one not so quiet that i can't hear instructions or what-have-you. i actually prefer that they speak directly into my ear so i can still feel connected to them. when i no longer hear them you can damn well bet i'm in my own little la, la, land

(in reply to MsFlutter)

Post #: 9

RE: Do I talk to you? Not talk to you? - 11/17/2008 5:16:52 PM

mummyman321

Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsFlutter

A 'normal' gauge to action is reaction. Sometimes going quiet can be interpreted as 'tolerating' the attentions of the moment. In reality it could well be progression to subspace. What is the least jarring method of determining that?

You might consider having set discussion times. A Domme I saw early on into the lifestyle would have discussions after a session was over to ask my feelings, how I felt, what I was thinking etc, did I anjoy it, etc. This was a "free" time where we could talk freely without any repercussions. She would ask a lot of questions and really forced me to think about the session and why I enjoyed something, what I was thinking. This also gave here a better understanding of my thought process. It did wonders to enhance the relationship.

_____________________________

Life - Its not about where you are but about the journey to get there - I prefer to choose the road less traveled

(in reply to MsFlutter)

Post #: 10

RE: Do I talk to you? Not talk to you? - 11/17/2008 5:34:53 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

If you have to ask questions, make them yes or no ones.
And it's really hot to have the question be something like "You can take a little more for me, can't you?" That way I still feel he's in control but he can get feedback if it turns out I can't.

But I don't expect him to read my mind, and I know sometimes he can't tell where I am and needs information. That doesn't mean I'm suddenly in charge, it means I'm giving him added info to decide how much more I can take and still have it be a good time for all. However it may be different for me because I have panic attacks and he needs this info to avoid triggering one. It's the same as asking a diabetic if they need a break for food or juice, a question which only the person with the illness can accurately answer.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to mummyman321)

Post #: 11

RE: Do I talk to you? Not talk to you? - 11/17/2008 6:36:50 PM

greeneyedreamer

Posts: 442
Joined: 6/20/2007
Status: offline

Talk and talk and talk, lots of soft talk, I find it very very reassuring and very needed. I can't respond but i love that someone is telling me what is going on. I retreat into my own mind and i think but can't talk...

Dreamer

_____________________________

Dreamer, owned and ecstatically happy

I am still learning... Michelangelo, age 87

Maybe some women weren't meant to be tamed. Maybe they are suppose to run wild until they find someone just as wild to run with. Sex and the City

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 12

RE: Do I talk to you? Not talk to you? - 11/17/2008 7:23:32 PM

xxblushesxx

Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

Everyone else has all said it so well.
Apparently we love to hear the sound of your voice, while ours, at certain times, elude us. (or bring us crashing back out of that blissful state...)

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com

(in reply to greeneyedreamer)

Post #: 13

RE: Do I talk to you? Not talk to you? - 11/17/2008 9:38:30 PM

OneMoreWaste

Posts: 910
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsFlutter
As the scene progresses and the intensity rises, are you vocal in reaction to the Dom/me's implement of choice or are you quiet - reaching for the edges of subspace.

Depends on the type of scene, but I generally start out stoic and get louder with more intensity.

quote:

Do you hear us articulating to you what we fully intend to do and do you find that reassuring? If we ask, should it be considered rhetorical unless its a question concerning welfare?

I'm not much of a talker in day-to-day life, so I usually find talk distracting. If I'm in a submissive headspace, there's no such thing as a rhetorical question- if Mistress asks a question, it's rude to not answer!

quote:

Do we talk? Do we not talk? Do we ask or just let you float?

Again, this is just personal, but I really prefer little to no actual speech. It takes a lot of concentration for me to process speech, and that mental processing time can't be spared during a scene!

quote:

A 'normal' gauge to action is reaction. Sometimes going quiet can be interpreted as 'tolerating' the attentions of the moment. In reality it could well be progression to subspace. What is the least jarring method of determining that?

Keep going and see what happens

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
If you have to ask questions, make them yes or no ones.
And it's really hot to have the question be something like "You can take a little more for me, can't you?" That way I still feel he's in control but he can get feedback if it turns out I can't.

oooOOooo... that's not bad!

Along with what WBS said, about the worst thing I can be asked during a scene is "What would you like me to do now?" or "Should I stop?"- it's the D/s equivalent of "Is it in yet?"

_____________________________

-and the few still remember passion over rage-

(in reply to MsFlutter)

Post #: 14

RE: Do I talk to you? Not talk to you? - 11/18/2008 5:06:16 AM

rubberpet

Posts: 1743
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: The Land of Voodoo
Status: offline

I don't particularly like being spoken to while in subspace because it makes me focus on what is being said instead of what's happening to me. The only time I like being spoken to is when Mistress leans in real close and starts whispering seductively in my ear saying things like how beautiful it is to see me melt to her, how much further she is going to take me, or how I'm nothing more than an object for her amusement. Being constantly asked if everything is ok will snap me out of subspace and ruin the scene.

Mistress knows when I hit subspace, I go mute and silently revel in what she is doing to me. Basically, no news is good news. If something is wrong or not going well, I won't be lost in subspace. I'll be completely coherant and voicing my problem or concern. Mistress knows how to read me pretty well, so anything negative on my end is easy to pick up on for her.

_____________________________

Collared and devoted property of Mistress Lorelei (vampchick88) as of 3/26/08.

Rubberpet - The Resident Anti-Subby and mysterious shadowy figure known as Voodoo, proud hitman and wiseguy for the Subby Mafia.

(in reply to MsFlutter)

Post #: 15

RE: Do I talk to you? Not talk to you? - 11/18/2008 7:43:27 AM

Nefric

Posts: 18
Joined: 10/8/2008
Status: offline

I have found this whole thread to be very enlightening. I am a novice Dom and some of the toughest things is learning to read the reactions of a sub during a scene. I have seen such a variety of responses here that I know have some new questions to my list of things to ask before doing a scene with someone the first few times. If I find a sub that becoming mine then I know that time and experience will teach me all the small messages that they will give me during a scene. I really liked the idea of talking after a scene to help the Dom learn what was working and not working. Thanks for the education.

(in reply to rubberpet)

Post #: 16

RE: Do I talk to you? Not talk to you? - 11/18/2008 7:58:24 AM

hardbodysub

Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

If you have to ask questions, make them yes or no ones.
And it's really hot to have the question be something like "You can take a little more for me, can't you?" That way I still feel he's in control but he can get feedback if it turns out I can't.

But I don't expect him to read my mind, and I know sometimes he can't tell where I am and needs information. That doesn't mean I'm suddenly in charge, it means I'm giving him added info to decide how much more I can take and still have it be a good time for all. However it may be different for me because I have panic attacks and he needs this info to avoid triggering one. It's the same as asking a diabetic if they need a break for food or juice, a question which only the person with the illness can accurately answer.

Excellent answer! Especially the "yes or no" questions. I absolutely hate being asked open-ended questions which require long, complicated answers like "how does this make you feel?" or "what are you thinking?" in the middle of a scene. It really ruins the atmosphere, and makes it feel very artificial. Higher-level communication doesn't mix well with losing oneself in the physical and emotional experience of a BDSM scene, in my opinion. But simple yes or no questions are fine, and can be used to heighten the experience as well as provide information to the top/dominant.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 17

RE: Do I talk to you? Not talk to you? - 11/18/2008 8:07:06 AM

loveandlight87

Posts: 110
Joined: 2/27/2008
Status: offline

I am in total agreement with the below statments. I am very non-verbal in space and being forced to speak will bring me back to a degree. I believe someone also mentioned being relaxed and floaty vs. tense with teeth gritted. Same goes for me. I tend to move in slow motion and whisper gibberish in space. But if something is going wrong I will be tense. There are certain kinds of scenes though where this would not hold true, but for the most part tense is bad for me. And yes, LOVE to hear my D's voice!

love

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

Oh yes, talk... talk in a low, deep tone, keep me connected mentally to you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysliloneds

i love for my partner to talk to me, in a quiet voice, but one not so quiet that i can't hear instructions or what-have-you. i actually prefer that they speak directly into my ear so i can still feel connected to them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

Everyone else has all said it so well.
Apparently we love to hear the sound of your voice, while ours, at certain times, elude us. (or bring us crashing back out of that blissful state...)

(in reply to daddysliloneds)

Post #: 18

RE: Do I talk to you? Not talk to you? - 11/18/2008 8:12:00 AM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rubberpet

I don't particularly like being spoken to while in subspace because it makes me focus on what is being said instead of what's happening to me. The only time I like being spoken to is when Mistress leans in real close and starts whispering seductively in my ear saying things like how beautiful it is to see me melt to her, how much further she is going to take me, or how I'm nothing more than an object for her amusement. Being constantly asked if everything is ok will snap me out of subspace and ruin the scene.

Mistress knows when I hit subspace, I go mute and silently revel in what she is doing to me. Basically, no news is good news. If something is wrong or not going well, I won't be lost in subspace. I'll be completely coherant and voicing my problem or concern. Mistress knows how to read me pretty well, so anything negative on my end is easy to pick up on for her.

likewise for me

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to rubberpet)

Post #: 19

RE: Do I talk to you? Not talk to you? - 11/18/2008 4:42:54 PM

MsFlutter

Posts: 1305
Joined: 11/12/2008
From: East Coast
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsFlutter

Forgive the structure of this inquiry but I love the insights I've found on this forum. It seems there is (for good reason) no definitive answer but perspective is greatly appreciated.

Note: I realize that some relationships are so finely-tuned that discussion of this doesnt even apply.

Things have quieted a bit. You have transitioned from busy-work-a-day person to submissive in the care of your Dom/me. Until/unless a mindmeld is an option, your reaction (vocal or otherwise) is the unit of measurement for the person entrusted with your power.

As the scene progresses and the intensity rises, are you vocal in reaction to the Dom/me's implement of choice or are you quiet - reaching for the edges of subspace. Do you hear us articulating to you what we fully intend to do and do you find that reassuring? If we ask, should it be considered rhetorical unless its a question concerning welfare? Do we talk? Do we not talk? Do we ask or just let you float?

A 'normal' gauge to action is reaction. Sometimes going quiet can be interpreted as 'tolerating' the attentions of the moment. In reality it could well be progression to subspace. What is the least jarring method of determining that?

I posed a question similar to this on the Ask a Mistress board. The answers from both boards have been very very interesting. The 'chatty' time during aftercare has always been critically important to those involved. As a student of human behavior, however, I'm thrilled to have more glimpses of the inner workings of the mind during a scene.

The biggest question in my mind, based on a past experience, was 'would a sub go thru the motions just to be polite? Is it subspace or is it 'are we there yet?'

I enjoy all the wisdom (not to mention the comedy material!) that shows up here !

_____________________________

'Dont torture yourself, Gomez darling. That's my job' Morticia Addams

"The right data, filtered through an idiot, can yield a bad answer." einstien5201

(in reply to MsFlutter)

Post #: 20

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