Congressman, "it not your money"

Congressman, "it not your money" (Full Version)

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tightcandy -> Congressman, "it not your money" (11/19/2008 7:26:33 PM)
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=81485 check out the nerve of this congressman telling the host "its not your money" per bailing out the 3 car manufacturers. The execs flew in - their private jets, did not jet pool- to ask for money that I guess isnt ours. that one line pretty much says it all. "its not your money" gagggggggs

Owner59 -> RE: Congressman, "it not your money" (11/19/2008 8:11:24 PM)
We`re talking about the loss of over a million jobs.That would kill the economy as we know it and put us into a long term depression. Steel,plastic,rubber,glass,micro-chips,parts,paint etc,,..all the businesses that supply Detroit will also go down along with GM/Ford/Chrysler Somehow losing a million plus jobs makes this subject a little more important than spit bucket to take turns on. I`m very surprised that folks don`t see the dire results of letting the auto industry fold. This isn`t a tv show or sports event.This is the possible destruction of the middle class and ruination of the economy we all take for granted. Why are we even flirting with this level of disaster? This is as serious as a heart attack.I wish more folks would treat it that way.

BKSir -> RE: Congressman, "it not your money" (11/19/2008 8:18:45 PM)
Why are we not treating it more seriously, O59? Once bitten, twice shy. The 'bail out' that we just went through was a clusterfuck and load of bullshit of epic and biblical proportions, and everyone knows it. People are not exactly in a mode to trust that it won't happen two times in as many months. Am I saying that your assessment of the situation is wrong? Not at all. But, this 'automotive bailout' ought to come with something. Some sort of protections, a loan plan, stipulations that require the money to be used for re-tooling the plants for creating alternative fuel vehicles (which would create even more jobs and more work not just in the company but for suppliers as well), other things that I won't list at the moment. Not just handing them a couple hundred billion dollars and saying 'here, have fun'.

Loxosceles -> RE: Congressman, "it not your money" (11/19/2008 8:24:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 We`re talking about the loss of over a million jobs.That would kill the economy as we know it and put us into a long term depression. No, we are talking about chapter 11 bankruptcy where they can restructure, and get out from under the UAW's huge drag on them. What happens if we give them 25 billion more, and they still close shop? Then we are on the hook for 25 billion dollars that bought lots of fancy shit for all the management of Ford, Chrysler and GM. If any other company goes belly up due to bad decisions, do we bail them out, too? Where do you draw the line? KMart? Linens&Things? Using the same logic, we should have bailed out all the yarn companies that went out of business when WalMart started buying socks and underwear by the boatload from China and Indonesia.

TheHeretic -> RE: Congressman, "it not your money" (11/19/2008 8:47:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 We`re talking about the loss of over a million jobs.That would kill the economy as we know it and put us into a long term depression. Steel,plastic,rubber,glass,micro-chips,parts,paint etc,,..all the businesses that supply Detroit will also go down along with GM/Ford/Chrysler Somehow losing a million plus jobs makes this subject a little more important than spit bucket to take turns on. I`m very surprised that folks don`t see the dire results of letting the auto industry fold. This isn`t a tv show or sports event.This is the possible destruction of the middle class and ruination of the economy we all take for granted. Why are we even flirting with this level of disaster? This is as serious as a heart attack.I wish more folks would treat it that way. Jesus Christ, O59 chill out. Let 'em collapse. Let the people who are being asked to save them understand that it was the UNIONS that killed the American auto industry as it exists, and that bailing out a bunch of assholes who feel that a $73.00 an hour employee package is a birthright, ain't my problem. I'm getting ready to buy myself a brand new set of wheels. Guess what? I'm not buying from the big three, for the simple reason that they are selling crap I don't want. Let them fall. Void those fucking contracts that crippled them. Let new companies rise from the ashes. The economy is tanking for a while anyway. Let's be better on the other side.

Owner59 -> RE: Congressman, "it not your money" (11/19/2008 8:51:15 PM)
Chapter 11 is a restructuring of debt,assets and what ever money still coming in(accounts receivable). The problem here is there`s no income coming in and no,zero,nada lines of credit,...for anyone. If these monsters fold,the spigot turns off and Japan cleans up. We literally can`t let them fail.The minimum job loss could easily be over a million. That`s something we can`t afford. The foreclosure rate going through the roof,frozen credit,a Trillion wasted in Iraq,Wall Street taking a crap. This could be the straw that breaks the camel`s back. The price of letting them fold could be many times higher than the price of a bail-out. Mr Obama`s thoughts. The bit about Detroit is 6 mins. into the vid. and spot on.

Loxosceles -> RE: Congressman, "it not your money" (11/19/2008 9:12:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 The problem here is there`s no income coming in and no,zero,nada lines of credit,...for anyone. quote: You are telling me that they have stopped selling cars? Not true - their business is just off 25%. quote: If these monsters fold,the spigot turns off and Japan cleans up. And the problem with that is...? If they stop making a product people buy, then they SHOULD go out of business. Should we have bailed out the candle makers when the electric light bulb was put on the market? quote: We literally can`t let them fail.The minimum job loss could easily be over a million. "Would you like fries with that?" - There are other jobs out there. Maybe some of the guys on the assembly line would finally finish high school to get another job. This might be the impetus to show that getting an education really pays off. quote: The foreclosure rate going through the roof,frozen credit,a Trillion wasted in Iraq,Wall Street taking a crap. Did you vote for Bush? Those are his policies at work. quote: This could be the straw that breaks the camel`s back. Or the kick in the ass we need to finally join the other countries as a partner, and not a patronizing pompous ass doing as we please in the world. quote: The price of letting them fold could be many times higher than the price of a bail-out. Not as much as creating another VietNam did to us. Sorry, but I don't buy the crap the media is force-feeding everyone. This might be a hard lesson for people like you, but for those of us who don't live beyond our means, those of us who save more than we spend and have a job that an education gave us - we aren't that worried about a recession. I put myself through college, served my time in the Army, and drove piece o' crap cars for twenty years so that I could put money in the bank. And now... a recession is bargain hunting time for me. You'd be surprised how cheap you can find stuff when the grasshoppers of the human world need to buy food or pay their bills instead of playing Wii or online games. I will take my hard earned savings and enjoy the bleak retail landscape jingling all my change in my pocket. Hey, look! Best Buy already has marked down a 1TB hard drive to $179! Hmm...I'll wait, cuz I'll bet they mark it down just before Xmas with this shitty economy... muahahahahahahaha...

DomKen -> RE: Congressman, "it not your money" (11/19/2008 9:19:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Jesus Christ, O59 chill out. Let 'em collapse. Let the people who are being asked to save them understand that it was the UNIONS that killed the American auto industry as it exists, and that bailing out a bunch of assholes who feel that a $73.00 an hour employee package is a birthright, ain't my problem. That's bullshit of the worst sort. If the UAW is the problem why has so much production moved to Canada? If you didn't know the UAW is the auto worker union in Canada too.

Owner59 -> RE: Congressman, "it not your money" (11/19/2008 9:27:09 PM)
Ha ha,fun fun,let`s crash and burn,..... Happy happy joy joy....[8\|] Let`s not.

Owner59 -> RE: Congressman, "it not your money" (11/19/2008 9:54:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Jesus Christ, O59 chill out. Let 'em collapse. Let the people who are being asked to save them understand that it was the UNIONS that killed the American auto industry as it exists, and that bailing out a bunch of assholes who feel that a $73.00 an hour employee package is a birthright, ain't my problem. That's bullshit of the worst sort. If the UAW is the problem why has so much production moved to Canada? If you didn't know the UAW is the auto worker union in Canada too. I guess it was the unions who forced GM to produce like 14 models of Cadillacs, 15 models of Buicks, 10 models of Pontiacs, 20 plus models in the GMC/Chevy line, and the Hummer. Oh the Hummer,that example of AWD gluttony and why we war for oil. Oh yeah,the unions water boarded the GM execs. until they started producing frick`n Hummers.[8\|] We need a serious approach.....

hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: Congressman, "it not your money" (11/19/2008 10:32:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 The problem here is there`s no income coming in and no,zero,nada lines of credit,...for anyone. If they were making something worth spending the money on, rather than crappy cars that no one wants, there would still Be income. That's part of doing business - make what consumers want, or they spend their money with the compitition. quote: We literally can`t let them fail.The minimum job loss could easily be over a million. What's one million more when there's so many unemployed that aren't even Counted any longer, because they've been unemployed longer than their unemployment insurance benefits lasted? Maybe if that million find themselves without work, they'll be a bit less understanding of CEOs who give themselves multi-million dollar golden parachutes while the company is going bancrupt. Hell, for that matter maybe that newly unemployed million will think about Firing the shits in congrease that helped create a lot of the problems. I noticed in the article from the OP that the one saying it "has" to be done - is the one who now finds HIMSELF in the unemployment line, since he got Replaced for his congressional seat after 16 years of unmitigated Crap outta DC.

TheHeretic -> RE: Congressman, "it not your money" (11/19/2008 10:36:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Jesus Christ, O59 chill out. Let 'em collapse. Let the people who are being asked to save them understand that it was the UNIONS that killed the American auto industry as it exists, and that bailing out a bunch of assholes who feel that a $73.00 an hour employee package is a birthright, ain't my problem. That's bullshit of the worst sort. If the UAW is the problem why has so much production moved to Canada? If you didn't know the UAW is the auto worker union in Canada too. Does the Canadian UAW demand retiree benefits (including health care) that add $3,500 to the price of every car? C'mon, Ken, admit it. The unions did some very good things, a long time ago, but they missed the bedtime story about killing the goose that laid the golden eggs.

TheHeretic -> RE: Congressman, "it not your money" (11/19/2008 10:45:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 We need a serious approach..... Serious like what, O59? Like letting them fall into bankruptcy, be bought out and broken up, and rebuilt on a better model? This would be one of those times we are actually on the same page. Or are you thinking along the lines of just letting the gov't assert executive control over them in a centralized planning sort of way? There is a word for that I think... when the gov't controls the means of production?

popeye1250 -> RE: Congressman, "it not your money" (11/19/2008 11:00:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Jesus Christ, O59 chill out. Let 'em collapse. Let the people who are being asked to save them understand that it was the UNIONS that killed the American auto industry as it exists, and that bailing out a bunch of assholes who feel that a $73.00 an hour employee package is a birthright, ain't my problem. That's bullshit of the worst sort. If the UAW is the problem why has so much production moved to Canada? If you didn't know the UAW is the auto worker union in Canada too. I guess it was the unions who forced GM to produce like 14 models of Cadillacs, 15 models of Buicks, 10 models of Pontiacs, 20 plus models in the GMC/Chevy line, and the Hummer. Oh the Hummer,that example of AWD gluttony and why we war for oil. Oh yeah,the unions water boarded the GM execs. until they started producing frick`n Hummers.[8\|] We need a serious approach..... Ten models of Pontiacs! In my book that's ten models too many. I agree, we do need to loan the big three money to help them keep going. I'd much rather bail them out than bankers and brokers. And, $73 per hour in pay and benefits is good but the bonusses and salaries of bankers and brokers are many times $73 per hour! Seems there's no shortage of people who make $400k per year and up calling union auto workers, "overpaid!"

TheHeretic -> RE: Congressman, "it not your money" (11/19/2008 11:16:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Seems there's no shortage of people who make $400k per year and up calling union auto workers, "overpaid!" There's no shortage of people who've never made anything like that calling them overpaid either, Popeye. Probably a lot more.

TheUtopian -> RE: Congressman, "it not your money" (11/19/2008 11:52:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Loxosceles quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 We`re talking about the loss of over a million jobs.That would kill the economy as we know it and put us into a long term depression. No, we are talking about chapter 11 bankruptcy where they can restructure, and get out from under the UAW's huge drag on them. What happens if we give them 25 billion more, and they still close shop? Then we are on the hook for 25 billion dollars that bought lots of fancy shit for all the management of Ford, Chrysler and GM. If any other company goes belly up due to bad decisions, do we bail them out, too? Where do you draw the line? KMart? Linens&Things? Using the same logic, we should have bailed out all the yarn companies that went out of business when WalMart started buying socks and underwear by the boatload from China and Indonesia. My god man.....besides all that - Ceberus, the ownership/management arm of Chrysler, is a parasitical, asset-stripping hedge fund. Its no different than re-capitalizing these derivative-entrenched investment banks, turned commercial - You're throwing good money after bad into a black hole, at a vile parasite. Let it burn..... - R

rulemylife -> RE: Congressman, "it not your money" (11/20/2008 12:46:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Loxosceles No, we are talking about chapter 11 bankruptcy where they can restructure, and get out from under the UAW's huge drag on them. The UAW didn't force the automakers into this situation. The retirement plans and health benefits were agreed to by the companies based on what was best for them at the time. Future benefits were deemed to be less expensive than immediate pay raises for workers. Management made a calculated decision to defer labor costs based on the economic conditions of the time. They didn't anticipate the huge rise in health care costs, increased life expectancy of their retirees, or the stock market declines that have eroded an already underfunded pension plan. In short, they took a gamble and lost. They traded short-term profits for the risk that their long-term labor costs would remain manageable. That didn't happen. quote: What happens if we give them 25 billion more, and they still close shop? Then we are on the hook for 25 billion dollars that bought lots of fancy shit for all the management of Ford, Chrysler and GM. We're on the hook regardless. Not giving them the money may satisfy your moral outrage but the reality is it will hurt the economy far more in unemployment benefits, lost consumer spending, and ancillary job losses in support industries. Not to mention shifting the pensions of all those workers, current and retired, to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation. If the PBGC goes bankrupt, which is a distinct possibility if it has to assume all the automakers' pension plans, then not only are we on the hook for those plans but also all the other companies that have shifted their pension burdens to the PBGC through chapter 11. quote: If any other company goes belly up due to bad decisions, do we bail them out, too? Where do you draw the line? KMart? Linens&Things? Using the same logic, we should have bailed out all the yarn companies that went out of business when WalMart started buying socks and underwear by the boatload from China and Indonesia. Yeah. If only our yarn companies had made quality socks and underwear that people really wanted to buy. [8\|] Or is it that more profit can be made by employing workers in countries that have virtually no labor laws and the type of "sweat-shop" conditions and wages that existed in this country in the 1800's and early 1900's that led to the rise of unionization?

BbwCanaDomme -> RE: Congressman, "it not your money" (11/20/2008 1:02:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Jesus Christ, O59 chill out. Let 'em collapse. Let the people who are being asked to save them understand that it was the UNIONS that killed the American auto industry as it exists, and that bailing out a bunch of assholes who feel that a $73.00 an hour employee package is a birthright, ain't my problem. That's bullshit of the worst sort. If the UAW is the problem why has so much production moved to Canada? If you didn't know the UAW is the auto worker union in Canada too. Does the Canadian UAW demand retiree benefits (including health care) that add $3,500 to the price of every car? C'mon, Ken, admit it. The unions did some very good things, a long time ago, but they missed the bedtime story about killing the goose that laid the golden eggs. ....they don't need to include healthcare in retirement benefits here. It comes standard with citizenship. Continue.

meatcleaver -> RE: Congressman, "it not your money" (11/20/2008 1:15:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Jesus Christ, O59 chill out. Let 'em collapse. Let the people who are being asked to save them understand that it was the UNIONS that killed the American auto industry as it exists, and that bailing out a bunch of assholes who feel that a $73.00 an hour employee package is a birthright, ain't my problem. I'm getting ready to buy myself a brand new set of wheels. Guess what? I'm not buying from the big three, for the simple reason that they are selling crap I don't want. Isn't the fact that the American car industry isn't making cars people want the reason its in trouble and not the unions? Forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't deciding on what and what isn't made part of company strategy and therefore down to the executives? Great time to bail out a car industry though with sales plummeting because of the credit crisis. That's a great time to sell cars people don't want and can't even afford even if the did want them.

Evility -> RE: Congressman, "it not your money" (11/20/2008 3:56:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 I`m very surprised that folks don`t see the dire results of letting the auto industry fold. A I G. Nuff said.

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