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Polar bears - 11/19/2008 7:47:14 PM   
Aneirin


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http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1ea8233f-14da-4a44-b839-b71a9e5df868&k=5287

Perhaps yet another example of the crap pedalled by our governments, intellects and academics, Polar bears are not decreasing in numbers, but  increasing in numbers

Well, increasing according to the Inuit population, who after all know quite a bit about them.

But according to scientists and those others involved, the Inuit are talking crap, as it is,the inuit have by far away foreign authorities had their hunting quota cut drastically, something which is threatening their very culture and by that their spirituality.

So why is it there is such concern about polar bears, is it because they look cute and cuddly and desperately need our protection against all other interests, or is the world yet again being sold a scam ?



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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

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RE: Polar bears - 11/19/2008 7:57:41 PM   
RainydayNE


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you have to be skeptical of everybody.
the japanese claim that whale populations are a-ok, too.
if you want to hunt something, and some government is going to put restrictions on it, aren't you going to say "oh they're doing fine!"

but then of course, if you have something to gain from either side, you'll do/say what it takes to get what it is you want to gain. that's politics for you.

alot of news agencies are covering this issue and the flaws in the studies, so who knows.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080508132549.htm
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/56861
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0102/p03s03-usgn.html

i think what most people are concerned with (like the last article mentions in a quote from some scientific d00d) is that in the future there could be huge losses in their populations.

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RE: Polar bears - 11/19/2008 8:03:31 PM   
philosophy


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...a somewhat old story, already debunked, printed by the Canadian equivilant of the Torygraph.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Post

......as usual in such stories they've only picked on a part of the real story and used it to try and make a political point.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11656

.....so who do i believe, National Post or New Scientist? Hmmmmm.......

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RE: Polar bears - 11/19/2008 10:39:54 PM   
RainydayNE


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ah, well there you go :)

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RE: Polar bears - 11/20/2008 1:20:19 AM   
meatcleaver


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They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
With a pink hotel, a boutique
And a swinging hot spot

Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

They took all the trees
Put 'em in a tree museum
And they charged the people
A dollar and a half just to see 'em

Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

Hey farmer farmer
Put away that DDT now
Give me spots on my apples
But leave me the birds and the bees
Please!

Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

Late last night
I heard the screen door slam
And a big yellow taxi
Took away my old man

Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot


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RE: Polar bears - 11/20/2008 2:18:37 AM   
tweedydaddy


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I feel so much better about my rugs now!

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RE: Polar bears - 11/20/2008 3:36:29 AM   
RealityLicks


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Would I be right in thinking that polar bears don't shit in the woods? 

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RE: Polar bears - 11/20/2008 4:10:41 AM   
Dargrim


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No You'd be wrong. Its just one hell of a walk for them. 

Granted the science may not be perect, but when is it ever? Anyone have a perfect scietnific theory or point?

So I simply ask regardless of if theres 5 or 5000, whats the harm in prtecting them? Particularly as there may not be much ice left for them in the future.....

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RE: Polar bears - 11/20/2008 4:21:27 AM   
Aneirin


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The thing is, nature has always and will always adapt to the prevailing conditions, so if the ice buggers off, they should be ok. That is if truly the ice is buggering off,as I see reports saying that, that also is increasing in certain areas, quite the contrary to the reports we are all being fed.

What I do find of concern though about all of this, is the far away world's impact on the natives of the region, the Inuit. They like the Native American of the past hunted what came to be 'endangered' species, but the endangerment did not come from their interest in the game, it came from other, with more powerful weapons.

The natives of the region hunt big cuddly, fluffy polar bears, but they like the Native American only take what they need, they do not hunt something to the edges of extinction. The native culture of the region is centered around what they hunt, is the west again going to destroy yet another culture for it's arrogant beliefs ?

To note, not all Inuit use modern high power rifles to hunt game, some still go about it the old way and that way, it is a pretty dangerous thing to do, the battle for food and materials is hard fought. Anyways, even if they do use rifles, fail to get a clean kill and they got an angry bear on their hands and those things can shift.


< Message edited by Aneirin -- 11/20/2008 4:27:27 AM >


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: Polar bears - 11/20/2008 6:49:44 AM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

The thing is, nature has always and will always adapt to the prevailing conditions, so if the ice buggers off, they should be ok. That is if truly the ice is buggering off,as I see reports saying that, that also is increasing in certain areas, quite the contrary to the reports we are all being fed.

What I do find of concern though about all of this, is the far away world's impact on the natives of the region, the Inuit. They like the Native American of the past hunted what came to be 'endangered' species, but the endangerment did not come from their interest in the game, it came from other, with more powerful weapons.

The natives of the region hunt big cuddly, fluffy polar bears, but they like the Native American only take what they need, they do not hunt something to the edges of extinction. The native culture of the region is centered around what they hunt, is the west again going to destroy yet another culture for it's arrogant beliefs ?

To note, not all Inuit use modern high power rifles to hunt game, some still go about it the old way and that way, it is a pretty dangerous thing to do, the battle for food and materials is hard fought. Anyways, even if they do use rifles, fail to get a clean kill and they got an angry bear on their hands and those things can shift.


You have a romanticized, and incorrect. view of Native American hunting practices. Prior to human arrivial in the americas the continents had horses, camels, pachyderms and some megafauna unique to the continents. The extinction of all those species coincides with the arrival of humans in eash region.

As to the Inuit and polar bear hunting, they should be free to continue hunting for their own use with traditional practices, if as you claim it is part of their culture. However bringing in trophy hunters willing to pay big bucks for a license is not the same at all and is what is actually going to be restricted in Canada.

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RE: Polar bears - 11/20/2008 9:21:56 AM   
kdsub


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What would be the advantage of the scam? Who profits?

We are loosing species at an alarming rate...why not be cautious...why be belligerent about conflicting findings?

Time and study will straighten things out...but if I had to act I would now then adjust as necessary down the line.

Butch

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RE: Polar bears - 11/20/2008 1:40:59 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

The thing is, nature has always and will always adapt to the prevailing conditions, so if the ice buggers off, they should be ok. That is if truly the ice is buggering off,as I see reports saying that, that also is increasing in certain areas, quite the contrary to the reports we are all being fed.

What I do find of concern though about all of this, is the far away world's impact on the natives of the region, the Inuit. They like the Native American of the past hunted what came to be 'endangered' species, but the endangerment did not come from their interest in the game, it came from other, with more powerful weapons.

The natives of the region hunt big cuddly, fluffy polar bears, but they like the Native American only take what they need, they do not hunt something to the edges of extinction. The native culture of the region is centered around what they hunt, is the west again going to destroy yet another culture for it's arrogant beliefs ?

To note, not all Inuit use modern high power rifles to hunt game, some still go about it the old way and that way, it is a pretty dangerous thing to do, the battle for food and materials is hard fought. Anyways, even if they do use rifles, fail to get a clean kill and they got an angry bear on their hands and those things can shift.


You have a romanticized, and incorrect. view of Native American hunting practices. Prior to human arrivial in the americas the continents had horses, camels, pachyderms and some megafauna unique to the continents. The extinction of all those species coincides with the arrival of humans in eash region.

As to the Inuit and polar bear hunting, they should be free to continue hunting for their own use with traditional practices, if as you claim it is part of their culture. However bringing in trophy hunters willing to pay big bucks for a license is not the same at all and is what is actually going to be restricted in Canada.


Do I ? Then pray tell me how it was the Native America hunted for food and materials prior to having guns ?

If you didn't notice, I was talking about a country where native people existed, not a country before the existence of native people
.

Interesting though about trophy hunters with the money to travel and hunt, who are they, certainly not people interested  in hunting for food, they are entirely different, perhaps even they could be partly responsible for the decline of animal kind.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: Polar bears - 11/20/2008 1:54:48 PM   
DomKen


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Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Do I ? Then pray tell me how it was the Native America hunted for food and materials prior to having guns ?

The woodlands tribes hunted solo or in small groups. The great plains tribes, before the reintroduction of horses(guns weren't the transformative for that culture), didn't hunt bison so much as slaughter them. They set fires to drive entire herds over cliffs. Evidence indicates this was also the method used to kill the other megafauna of thegreat plains that were extinct before europeans arrived.

quote:

If you didn't notice, I was talking about a country where native people existed, not a country before the existence of native people
.

And I'm pointing out that the people you claimed were taking only what they needed and not driving animals to extinction actually wiped out almost all the megafauna in the americas.


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