so what does US private healthcare cost?

so what does US private healthcare cost? (Full Version)

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LadyEllen -> so what does US private healthcare cost? (11/21/2008 2:07:11 AM)
I'm interested in this question because it seems to me you're all overpaying on your private healthcare by one way or another. Here, employees pay 9% of their gross earnings. The employer pays another 12% of the gross earnings. Based on an average wage of £25k/yr (an average greatly inflated by the same factors here as there), this means healthcare costs the employee £2250-00 the employer £3000-00 total for year £5250-00 Thereafter the employee has free at point of service healthcare for everything but spectacles and dentistry (thanks Maggie), and pays £7.50 for a prescription regardless of the cost of the drugs - frequent users of medicines can get a "season ticket" which reduces this cost. And everyone is covered by this method. E

SilverMark -> RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? (11/21/2008 3:04:53 AM)
I have a very small company so therefore I get little in the way of a group discount and I pay $264.00 per employee per month for a good policy. I know I could get a less expensive policy but the coverage is as good as I can get and as a perk for my slaried people it keeps them with me and provides for what they need. I do shop it yearly, but I think as a benefit I want them to have as good a policy as I can afford.

housesub4you -> RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? (11/21/2008 3:16:40 AM)
We pay $1400 per month to cover 2 people (the family plan) with my wifes health plan thru work (singles pay $125). Any person with more than 1 pays for a "family" plan. it's $1400 for a "famiy" of 2, and $1800 for a "family" of 3 or more. What a rip off Plus there is a co-pay for your Dr., a co-pay for the E/r, and they only cover 80% of the first $8000, then 100%, unless what you have is not covered. So yea this family is very much supporting a national health plan for this country. The health insurance cost have increased by 80% since she started working there 8 years ago, or about 10% per year. Which is a lot more than the cost of living increase she receives or inflation rates

LaTigresse -> RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? (11/21/2008 4:41:23 AM)
LadyE, as a former employee of a health insurance company, all I can say is that it is very complicated. We've got two varieties of coverage here. Individual plans that a person can purchase for themself or their family. It is usually priced according to coverage, age, and health issues. Also location makes a difference. As an example, Iowa is less expensive than say, Florida. If you are young and healthy it will be fairly inexpensive, regardless of whether you choose a decent company or a terrible one, to purchase from. There is still co-pays and deductables, and you will pay more for additional coverage like dental or maternity. The problem with individual health plans is that once you actually begin to use it, your rates will begin to increase. I've worked with people that were paying between $1,000.00 and $,2000.00 per month just for the insurance. They cannot shop and change insurance companies without losing coverage for any pre-existing health issues, if they can switch at all. There are a whole host of health issues that makes a person uninsurable with a new insurance company. Group plans also vary. The consumer (company) has many more choices for what the plan will and will not cover, co-pays, deductables, etc. Larger companies get better prices per employee than smaller companies do. The bonus, at least here for Iowa (each state has different laws governing health insurance) is that IF you work for a company with a group plan, except for a current pregnancy, there is no exemption of pre-existing conditions. So, unlike an individual plan, if you have something like high blood pressure, the new group plan has to cover it if it was covered under another plan. No worries if you keel over from a heart attack, your care will be covered. As will your meds. Although, some plans, both individual and group, do not have a prescription co-pay plan. Instead they are applied to the deductible and all out of pocket until that deductible is met. There are many many different health insurance plans. It is an ugly business set up to benefit the insurance companies, not the people buying the insurance. They are ALWAYS looking for loopholes to get out of paying large claims. Since very few people bother reading their policies, it isn't that difficult. As an example, In two years working with hundreds of people, only two knew what the lifetime max their insurance company would pay was. Most plans, it is 2 million, a few 1 million. Sounds like alot of money until you have major health issues. I've heard of more than a few cases where a person dealt with a major illness like cancer and exceeded their health insurance coverage. They thought they had good insurance and never thought they would go broke trying to get well. Which is, one of the many reasons, why I left the business.

Aileen1968 -> RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? (11/21/2008 5:10:42 AM)
Mine costs about $1200 a month for the family. No dental. I have used it extensively in the past ten years...two high risk pregnancies, a surgery, a year's worth of chemo for the man along with all kinds of scans and all we've laid out is our $30 copay. I really can't complain because our running total is easily approaching a half a million.

bestbabync -> RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? (11/21/2008 5:26:48 AM)
i am employed fulltime at a private university, so i am in the group insurance column. i pay $150.00 per month (individual plan)Medical with a $15.00 co-pay $50.00 co-pay for Emergency and 80% coverage for hospital stays. my coverage also includes Vision with a $5.00 co-pay per exam and 20% discount on glasses & contacts, Dental which covers 100% for cleanings & check ups and 80%coverage for all other procedures. i am very fortunate in my employment. i have job security and great benefits!

LadyConstanze -> RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? (11/21/2008 6:08:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen I'm interested in this question because it seems to me you're all overpaying on your private healthcare by one way or another. Here, employees pay 9% of their gross earnings. The employer pays another 12% of the gross earnings. Based on an average wage of £25k/yr (an average greatly inflated by the same factors here as there), this means healthcare costs the employee £2250-00 the employer £3000-00 total for year £5250-00 Thereafter the employee has free at point of service healthcare for everything but spectacles and dentistry (thanks Maggie), and pays £7.50 for a prescription regardless of the cost of the drugs - frequent users of medicines can get a "season ticket" which reduces this cost. And everyone is covered by this method. E Living in the UK and having enjoyed the services of the NHS, I am sticking with a private German health insurance, which costs me £400 a month, including spectacles and denstistry. Having experienced the NHS, I'm willing to hang on to my private healthcare by the nails and if needed rather sacrificing food than being at the mercy of the NHS, my experiences with it have had me worried for my life and while it is cheap, the old saying of you get what you pay for rings very very true. I was taking to the ER due to an accident where an animal almost scratched my eye out, so I had a big nasty gash on my eye-lid, unfortunately emergencies are NHS. The doctor barely spoke English, didn't even look at the gash at all and tried to give me an antibiotic, I kept telling him I can't have penicillin I am very allergic but tetracycline will work for me, he kept telling me that he will give me amoxcillin, which is something a person with a penicillin allergy should avoid at all costs. The lovely doctor told me I obviously don't want his help, thanks, yeah, despite being in the ER I didn't really think I need to cause such an emergency. I insisted on getting a tetanus booster and finally got that, all that time the MD did not waste a single look at the bleeding gash on my eye, well, altogether I waited for about 4 hours until a doctor saw me, sitting next to a guy who had his thumb halfway sliced up and was bleeding away. I was actually afraid for my life... My first experience was 3 years ago, I'm anemic and it seemed the anemia got the better of me because I kept losing weight dramatically and dropped to 94lbs, pale, fainting, all the signs of anemia, the GP (NHS because I didn't know any better) I saw had to be persuaded that I really want a blood test, he told me lots of women would be happy to have that problem (yeah, being seriously underweight is not dangerous at all), I got some iron but it didn't change anything and I had problems keeping my weight, after 6 weeks you would expect a result, I was told to be patient. I decided to find a private doctor, he decided on a blood test, turned out that it was a mix of thyroid problem and iron absorption and I needed another product because my body could not absorb the iron that was the prescription, he also considered my levels as quite dangerous, the NHS doc said they are a bit low. A mole had changed size and shape dramatically, the GP suggested to watch it for a few months (considering that cancer runs in my family, not an option, why wait until it is worse?) and I was stunned that I wasn't transferred to a dermatologist straight away, I had a changing mole once before (in Germany) and the first thing the GP did was send me to a dermatologist, so the GP decided to perform it as a small surgery, I had to wait 6 weeks for the results, now roughly 5 years ago I had the same result within 2 days and the all clear within 1 week... Additionally, the one surgery, performed by a dermatologist left almost no scar, a tinsy white dot the size of a pin prick, the one performed by a GP is after 2 years still roughly 1/2 inch in diameter and angry red.... I am paying both, a private insurance and the NHS, despite the fact that I do not plan to use the NHS EVER AGAIN if I can avoid it, I talked to the father of a friend who is an MD in London, he says the NHS is seriously mismanaged and for most doctors it is absolutely frustrating, they can't help their patients due to the fact that the NHS simply will not pay for treatments that are needed, that the waiting lists to see specialists are too long, so often the condition of the patient has considerably worsened, but lack of funds cuts into what a doctor can actually do. He is in his 70's and says he would LOVE to retire but he's worried about his patients because due to politics there aren't enough doctors around and he has enough private patients to be able to actually help a bunch of NHS patients, if it would only be NHS patients he would be forced to stick to the "maximum treatment time 10 minutes" rule, which is hardly enough to establish what medical problems there are and he's spitting in anger that there are treatments that would help some of them but the NHS simply doesn't OK them. I think the US system is also bad, because it can bankrupt people, but having seen the national healthcare of various other European countries, the NHS is really a simple disgrace. In case I will ever need surgery again, I will be on a plane to France, Germany, Italy or Switzerland, possibly even Spain if I can still crawl to an airport. Considering dentistry, I do take regular trips to Europe, after having had a good chat with a private dentist in the UK. Living "Up North" might make it all a bit harder, but the time it does take me to get to London, where most of the good clinics seem to be, is roughly the time it takes me to go get to the next airport and fly to mainland Europe. I find he state the NHS is in shocking, admittedly it is better to have insufficient national healthcare instead of none at all, but the only reason I can imagine the Brits put up with it is because they don't know how much more effective it can be. Having spoken to quite a few Ex-pats and others, most people would be willing to pay a bit more towards the NHS just to make it more effective, and if Gorden Brown says private insurance is not needed because the NHS is fine, but decides to use private dentists, I do rest my case....

NorthernGent -> RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? (11/21/2008 6:27:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze but the only reason I can imagine the Brits put up with it is because they don't know how much more effective it can be The English are irretrievably lost to compromise. We seem to be unable to make the hard decision, and are thus caught aspiring to the best of all worlds. We are simply not prepared to fund large public schemes in the manner of the Germans and French. As an example, when the English/French rail link was being undertaken, the French side was sorted in a crack; the English side was dogged by planning permission and 'not through my back garden' protests. It's the way we think.

meatcleaver -> RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? (11/21/2008 6:29:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze Living in the UK and having enjoyed the services of the NHS, I am sticking with a private German health insurance, which costs me £400 a month, including spectacles and denstistry. Rather ironically, because Germany has so many doctors and surgeons many can't get adequate experience so many get jobs in the British NHS for valuable clinical experience before returning to Germany to attain senior posts. So young German doctors who have remeained in the German health service throughout their careers are probably a lot more inexperienced than their compatriots who have worked in Britain amd their British counterparts. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze Having experienced the NHS, I'm willing to hang on to my private healthcare by the nails and if needed rather sacrificing food than being at the mercy of the NHS, my experiences with it have had me worried for my life and while it is cheap, the old saying of you get what you pay for rings very very true. Living in Germany I have a little experience of its health service and its good and on the surface looks better than the British one but a lot is cosmetic. But it should be a lot better because Germans pay 60% more than the British for their healthcare. However if you want the best, France has by far and away the best NHS. Private health services are OK for minor complaints but you will find that smart rich people use the NHS when it comes to serious illness because private health companies don't have the staff with the right experience or a lot of the state of the art equipement because of its expense. You will get more attentive nurses however. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze I was taking to the ER due to an accident where an animal almost scratched my eye out, so I had a big nasty gash on my eye-lid, unfortunately emergencies are NHS. The doctor barely spoke English, didn't even look at the gash at all and tried to give me an antibiotic, I kept telling him I can't have penicillin I am very allergic but tetracycline will work for me, he kept telling me that he will give me amoxcillin, which is something a person with a penicillin allergy should avoid at all costs. The lovely doctor told me I obviously don't want his help, thanks, yeah, despite being in the ER I didn't really think I need to cause such an emergency. I insisted on getting a tetanus booster and finally got that, all that time the MD did not waste a single look at the bleeding gash on my eye, well, altogether I waited for about 4 hours until a doctor saw me, sitting next to a guy who had his thumb halfway sliced up and was bleeding away. I was actually afraid for my life... My first experience was 3 years ago, I'm anemic and it seemed the anemia got the better of me because I kept losing weight dramatically and dropped to 94lbs, pale, fainting, all the signs of anemia, the GP (NHS because I didn't know any better) I saw had to be persuaded that I really want a blood test, he told me lots of women would be happy to have that problem (yeah, being seriously underweight is not dangerous at all), I got some iron but it didn't change anything and I had problems keeping my weight, after 6 weeks you would expect a result, I was told to be patient. I decided to find a private doctor, he decided on a blood test, turned out that it was a mix of thyroid problem and iron absorption and I needed another product because my body could not absorb the iron that was the prescription, he also considered my levels as quite dangerous, the NHS doc said they are a bit low. A mole had changed size and shape dramatically, the GP suggested to watch it for a few months (considering that cancer runs in my family, not an option, why wait until it is worse?) and I was stunned that I wasn't transferred to a dermatologist straight away, I had a changing mole once before (in Germany) and the first thing the GP did was send me to a dermatologist, so the GP decided to perform it as a small surgery, I had to wait 6 weeks for the results, now roughly 5 years ago I had the same result within 2 days and the all clear within 1 week... Additionally, the one surgery, performed by a dermatologist left almost no scar, a tinsy white dot the size of a pin prick, the one performed by a GP is after 2 years still roughly 1/2 inch in diameter and angry red.... I am paying both, a private insurance and the NHS, despite the fact that I do not plan to use the NHS EVER AGAIN if I can avoid it, I talked to the father of a friend who is an MD in London, he says the NHS is seriously mismanaged and for most doctors it is absolutely frustrating, they can't help their patients due to the fact that the NHS simply will not pay for treatments that are needed, that the waiting lists to see specialists are too long, so often the condition of the patient has considerably worsened, but lack of funds cuts into what a doctor can actually do. He is in his 70's and says he would LOVE to retire but he's worried about his patients because due to politics there aren't enough doctors around and he has enough private patients to be able to actually help a bunch of NHS patients, if it would only be NHS patients he would be forced to stick to the "maximum treatment time 10 minutes" rule, which is hardly enough to establish what medical problems there are and he's spitting in anger that there are treatments that would help some of them but the NHS simply doesn't OK them. I think the US system is also bad, because it can bankrupt people, but having seen the national healthcare of various other European countries, the NHS is really a simple disgrace. In case I will ever need surgery again, I will be on a plane to France, Germany, Italy or Switzerland, possibly even Spain if I can still crawl to an airport. Considering dentistry, I do take regular trips to Europe, after having had a good chat with a private dentist in the UK. Living "Up North" might make it all a bit harder, but the time it does take me to get to London, where most of the good clinics seem to be, is roughly the time it takes me to go get to the next airport and fly to mainland Europe. I find he state the NHS is in shocking, admittedly it is better to have insufficient national healthcare instead of none at all, but the only reason I can imagine the Brits put up with it is because they don't know how much more effective it can be. Having spoken to quite a few Ex-pats and others, most people would be willing to pay a bit more towards the NHS just to make it more effective, and if Gorden Brown says private insurance is not needed because the NHS is fine, but decides to use private dentists, I do rest my case.... Where exactly do you live because your experiences are the exact opposite of mine and people I know who have used the NHS for serious illness etc. I know its not perfect but from my experiences and German friends experiences here in Germany, the difference is more cosmetic when it comes to major illness but Britain does have a way to catch up. As for all the best clinics being in London, that is not true, they are scattered around the country, most university hospitals specializing in a different field. If you heard about the Spanish woman who had a transplant of her throcia (?) made from her own stem cells, Bristol university played a major part in that.

KatyLied -> RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? (11/21/2008 6:30:58 AM)
My employer pays around $800/month for my health care, I pay nothing towards it. There is some dental/eye care included. It is an excellent policy. A few years ago I had colon surgery which included a 5 day hospital stay along with pre-surgical x-rays and scans. I paid $40.00 in copays during that ordeal and never saw a hospital bill. My health insurance is provided as a benefit of full-time employment. At my part-time job I do not have health insurance, but I do get $125/year to put toward medical expenses and I also have the option of an FSA (which I will be enrolling in for 2009 as I can easily spend the minimum on contact lenses alone).

NuevaVida -> RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? (11/21/2008 7:08:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied My employer pays around $800/month for my health care, I pay nothing towards it. There is some dental/eye care included. It is an excellent policy. A few years ago I had colon surgery which included a 5 day hospital stay along with pre-surgical x-rays and scans. I paid $40.00 in copays during that ordeal and never saw a hospital bill. My health insurance is provided as a benefit of full-time employment. At my part-time job I do not have health insurance, but I do get $125/year to put toward medical expenses and I also have the option of an FSA (which I will be enrolling in for 2009 as I can easily spend the minimum on contact lenses alone). This is about how it was for me, with my last job. I think they paid about $700/month for me and I paid nothing but a $20 co-pay at the doctor's office. There were some expenses related to my surgery last year, which I was billed for - about $1200. I pay $15 for prescriptions, nothing for dental, and I'm covered up to $125 every other year for contact lenses. My medical plan is a PPO plan, rather than HMO, which means I don't need to be referred by my primary doc to see a specialist - I pick up the phone, make an appointment, and go. I have the same plan now, under COBRA, and I'm paying $540/month for it (it's killing me!). When benefits kick in where I'm currently working, I won't be paying a monthly premium anymore. I have applied for private insurance outside of COBRA, which advertises anywhere from about $200-400/month, depending on the plan (all sorts of options) but I've been denied, due to past medical stuff. COBRA is so high because it's guaranteed coverage (up to 18 months, I believe) regardless of medical history. Katy, I'm a really big fan of FSA's. My experience has been with the "Section 125" plan. My accountant has encouraged it, too, saying any time you can save tax money up front for medical, do it. There is so much you can reimburse yourself for - I found it absolutely worth it.

celticlord2112 -> RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? (11/21/2008 7:27:39 AM)
Are you asking the real cost of actual healthcare (i.e., doctors, medications, surgeries, et cetera) or the cost of health insurance (which is not healthcare but merely a malignant distortion of healthcare costs)?

windchymes -> RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? (11/21/2008 7:40:18 AM)
Sorry to jack the thread, but for Aileen, I tried to cmail you on the other side and it said "Profile Not Found".....just wondering how your man was doing, I never saw any reports in the forum about that. :) Anyway, I also work for a very large employer, and our benefits are pretty good. For a single plan that basically pays 90% of the contracted rate for just about all services, I pay about $120 a month, which includes dental & vision. The vision benefits aren't great, I paid out of pocket to go to a place that was cheaper than what one of their providers would have been WITH the discount. But that's common. The thing to do, if you have an employer who offers several different plans, as I do, is to carefully read them all, get help if necessary, to understand them, and pick the one that benefits YOU the most. For example, I'm not going to be needing family care or maternity benefits anymore. But I will most likely be needing orthopedic and/or chiropractic care, as well as physical therapy, based on my past history. So I picked the plan with the best coverage in those areas. Or, if you have certain doctors that you MUST stay with, then you have to find the plan that they are a provider for. It's whatever is most important to YOU. LaT is so right about insurance companies trying to get out of paying whenever they can. They do deliberately deny claims for stupid reasons, hoping people will just get frustrated and pay it out of their own pocket. "Stall tactics", though illegal as hell, are commonplace. When I did billing, there was one company, and I'll name them, since they're no longer in business, they were called "First Option"...we called them "Worst Option"....and they would routinely send the claims back saying "No itemized statement provided". I would actually staple an itemized statement to the front of the claim form and write "THIS IS THE ITEMIZED STATEMENT" on it in fat red marker, and they would STILL send some of them back requesting an itemized statement. One of the customer service reps I dealt with there regularly got to the point where she would whisper apologies to me over the phone, and she got a lot of claims paid for me. It was obvious this was their policy that the reps had been instructed to follow. She also eventually left the company. Anyway, to answer the OP, the total cost of a good insurance policy (low copays and deductibles, lots of coverage) with employee, spouse and dependents included in the coverage can be close to $10,000 a year. The more responsiblilty you accept, in other words, paying higher copays and deductibles and out of pocket expenses yourself, the less expensive it will be.

LadyEllen -> RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? (11/21/2008 7:43:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 Are you asking the real cost of actual healthcare (i.e., doctors, medications, surgeries, et cetera) or the cost of health insurance (which is not healthcare but merely a malignant distortion of healthcare costs)? The question is what does it cost employer and employee to provide healthcare coverage - as per my example in the OP for the UK. My contention was that it seems to cost a lot in the US by comparison - and yes I appreciate higher standards perhaps, but there are many more factors involved in the discrepancy. My conclusion so far is that some are getting royally screwed over, some are doing OK and some are doing very well indeed, nothwithstanding the millions that have no cover at all. E

celticlord2112 -> RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? (11/21/2008 8:02:08 AM)
quote: My conclusion so far is that some are getting royally screwed over, some are doing OK and some are doing very well indeed, nothwithstanding the millions that have no cover at all. Hence my conclusion that health insurance is an economic evil of the first caliber.

LadyConstanze -> RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? (11/21/2008 8:11:44 AM)
quote: Rather ironically, because Germany has so many doctors and surgeons many can't get adequate experience so many get jobs in the British NHS for valuable clinical experience before returning to Germany to attain senior posts. So young German doctors who have remeained in the German health service throughout their careers are probably a lot more inexperienced than their compatriots who have worked in Britain amd their British counterparts. Apart from that statement not being true, I get to that later, what does the fact of a German private health insurance have to do with the doctors? Germany has different laws, i.e. a doctor can only open a private practice if another doctor retires, that is due to the rather expensive equipment doctors have and the fact that quite a few doctors in the 80's overextended themselves financially with the equipment and gone bankrupt, so new laws were passed. Also doctors have to work in hospitals for a few years under supervision before they are allowed to join a private practice. I'm sure Germany also has inadequate doctors, however, having lived in Germany for about 20 years, I had the misfortune of meeting 2 doctors I thought were quacks, now 3 1/2 years in the UK, I have had 4 experiences with doctors, 3 of them NHS doctors and all 3 experiences were bad, it could be down to bad luck, but I am not willing to take that risk, after all my health is the most precious thing I have. A sign "Good news, it now only takes 12 to 18 weeks to see a specialist" in a GP office is NOT inclined to raise my faith in the NHS, that is seriously substandard. The national insurances in Germany are everything but ideal, but compared to the UK they are fantastic, believe me when I lived in Germany I was not happy and got a private health insurance, mainly because I simply didn't want to wait for an hour in a waiting room to see a doctor, with private insurance you get preferred treatment, you call up and for me it was simply worth it because I had to take less time off work and it is simply less paperwork. My biggest issue with the NHS is that GPs are trying to fulfill the roles of specialists, well, a GP is a general practitioner and if I do have a thyroid problem, I don't want a GP who is NOT a specialist messing around with it, if I do have an issue with a skin problem, I want to see a dermatologist, not a GP messing around with it. As I mentioned, I still have the scar, luckily it is only on my leg but if it would have been my face, I would also have a scar, something that obviously can be avoided. My experience with the NHS has been nothing but horrific and it is one of the main reasons why I think once the housing market will pick up again, I am ready to sell up and move back to another European country. I'm still relatively young so chances that I might have a serious health issue are not big. I'm quite happy if "smart people" want to use the NHS for serious health issues, but have you seen the state of NHS hospitals? NO GO for me, it will be abroad and praying that I don't have an accident and I can still make it on a plane. The experiences I made have really shocked me, I have lived in the UK before and I think I needed a doctor once due to a really bad flu, I was in London and it was not an issue, 10 years later and being in Cheshire, it seems like a different world and as I said, an Indian doctor (I am not being racist here, I would have had no issue but he clearly could barely understand me, I had an issue with that, a major issue since it DID endanger my life) who doesn't understand that I do tell him I am allergic to penicillin (which is also in my medical record, which they called up) and trying to give me amoxicillin is simply beyond the pale. What was he trying to achieve? Does he want me to turn red with my windpipes swelling up and my fingers turning the size of sausages? Having a tube stuck down my throat because I can't breathe is nothing I want a doctor to cause. Having talked to a few colleagues, they suggested that I shouldn't use Ms but use Dr when I register with a GP, well, my PhD is not in the medical field so I don't tend to use it at all or only in a field where it is relevant (work) but the fact that they told me I will get much better treatment from MDs just shocked the hell out of me. I'm simply not willing to go through "trial and error" with doctors, it's my health, I've been looking into Femtolasik for my eyes (nothing too bad, only - 0.7 but I can't wear glasses) and the Manchester hospital seems to be quite advanced, but I am simply scared to death due to my previous experiences and consider Switzerland. There are a lot of things I do like about GB but as I said, the NHS scares me to death, my partner is British, he's been to Germany and said it was an eye opener. Your point about the NHS being cheaper than the German health care is exactly my point, you get what you pay for and skimping when it comes to something like health is just not an option. A friend of mine had a baby in a NHS hospital, the fact that they left her in laying in the bloody sheets until the next morning because there weren't any nurses available had my jaw hitting the floor. I would GLADLY pay more for a better service, and as I said, I don't want to go to a GP who is experimenting a bit, if I do have a specific problem that does require a specialist. A GP is somebody I will consider if I have the flu, a simple broken toe... When it comes to business, I try to match clients with specialist, if somebody needs a print campaign, I won't got to a radio person, etc. It's expected in business, how come that this seems to be such a strange concept when it does come to health?

meatcleaver -> RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? (11/21/2008 9:52:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze Apart from that statement not being true, I get to that later, what does the fact of a German private health insurance have to do with the doctors? quote: Rather ironically, because Germany has so many doctors and surgeons many can't get adequate experience so many get jobs in the British NHS for valuable clinical experience before returning to Germany to attain senior posts. So young German doctors who have remeained in the German health service throughout their careers are probably a lot more inexperienced than their compatriots who have worked in Britain amd their British counterparts. Actually, I think you will find it is true. Where do you think German doctors in private healthcare train? Like all private healthcare medical staff, they train in national healthcare services.

calamitysandra -> RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? (11/21/2008 12:53:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze Germany has different laws, i.e. a doctor can only open a private practice if another doctor retires, that is due to the rather expensive equipment doctors have and the fact that quite a few doctors in the 80's overextended themselves financially with the equipment and gone bankrupt, so new laws were passed. This is patently untrue. In fact, we have freedom of choice and practice of profession written down in our Grundgesetz (constitution). Now, having said that, I can tell you that I am more than happy with the german healthcare system, especially compared to most (not all) others. My husband pays about 7.5% of his gross pay, his employer pays the same amount. The exact numbers may vary slightly from one insurance company to another. The there is a cap on the dues, everything you earn more than about ~4000 Euro is not counted. This covers himself, and all dependents. Not covered is most of dental and vision, but you can get add ons for that quite cheap. I have never had to wait to see a specialist if there is a urgent reason, I just call, and get an appointment, and soon at that. Same for surgery. No wait to talk of. Adults pay a 10 Euro copay for the first doctors visit every 3 month, and have a copay of 5 Euro per perscription (there is a cap on the copays, and you can get extempt) No copay for children. Covered is (aside from dental and vision) virtually everything, including physical therapy, speech therapy, homöopathic meds, vaccinations, regular checkups (overall health, female/male specifics, well-baby/child), pregnancy and birth (doctors as well as midwife care), simple dentists work, hospital stays with a copay of 5 Euro/day (children are free again, as are parents staying with ill children). I honestly can not imagine to have to choose between meds for my ill child and buying groceries. Everytime I read a forum post in which somebody says the can not go and see a doctor, because they are uninsured and don't have the money, I wonder how that can happen in a nation like the USA.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? (11/21/2008 12:59:47 PM)
I am part of a small group, so I pay about $600 a month, plus I have a $1250 deductible that I have to meet before the benefits kick in. No vision or dental, but all my prescriptions are covered, hospitalization, etc. Excellent coverage, but since I have to pay it all, I have little chance to save. Small groups get hit for the bulk of the increases, too. My business partner pays something like $1300 a month for her and her husband, and the deductible is doubled, too. I don't want to think about how much of my pay disappears this way, percentage wise. I have NO trouble itemizing medical expenses, let's put it that way.

IrishMist -> RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? (11/21/2008 1:10:35 PM)
I pay $975.62 a month for myself and one dependant. It's real good coverage though. No out of pocket costs with the exception of $175 for an ambulance ride and $85 for the ER. It covers everything; dentist, eye, hospital ( in and out patient ), perscriptions, cosmetic, therapies, etc. Even though I work for the state, because of what I do exactly, they do not provide health care for me or family; I pay it myself 100%. However, they do cover me in life insurance up to a specific amount, with no cost falling on me.

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