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Aneirin -> Ex military (11/22/2008 6:16:34 AM)

Just a thought based upon memories prompted by Colouredin's thread, a thought about ex military.

Two observations;

Observation one: all those whom I know that are ex military, they have not one good word to say about military action, in fact they are pacifists, they don't get involved with petty squabbles in the pub or anywhere and often are anti government policy. Is this so for others, have anyone else noticed this about the ex mil people ?

Is it that military life does something positive to a person, perhaps takes the fight out of them ?

Observation two : Of those whom I know are ex mil, most wear long hair, a complete opposite to the military helmet head, has anyone noticed this, are there any ex  mil people here who wear their hair long, why is that , is it you just like it, or is it a protest to being told to cut your hair ? Me, it was a protest at first, the first time I grew it long, but now it seems I have a kink for long hair, I love wearing it and love seeing it on either gender.

So given these observations, my observations, does anyone else here think similar or could you offer a different view point




windchymes -> RE: Ex military (11/22/2008 6:27:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Just a thought based upon memories prompted by Colouredin's thread, a thought about ex military.

Two observations;

Observation one: all those whom I know that are ex military, they have not one good word to say about military action, in fact they are pacifists, they don't get involved with petty squabbles in the pub or anywhere and often are anti government policy. Is this so for others, have anyone else noticed this about the ex mil people ?

Is it that military life does something positive to a person, perhaps takes the fight out of them ?

Observation two : Of those whom I know are ex mil, most wear long hair, a complete opposite to the military helmet head, has anyone noticed this, are there any ex  mil people here who wear their hair long, why is that , is it you just like it, or is it a protest to being told to cut your hair ? Me, it was a protest at first, the first time I grew it long, but now it seems I have a kink for long hair, I love wearing it and love seeing it on either gender.

So given these observations, my observations, does anyone else here think similar or could you offer a different view point



I have a couple family members who are retired military, but they still keep the clean-cut, shorter-look.  Not quite as buzz-cut as a military cut, but still fairly short. 

But, since they were Air Force, they both despise the color blue and won't wear it or paint any walls in their house blue, lol.




DomKen -> RE: Ex military (11/22/2008 6:51:36 AM)

I see both.

I'm a vet and am pretty close to a pacifist. I know vets who feel much the same way.

I know vets who are very gung ho for all things hawkish and think we should invade all sorts of places.




MissSCD -> RE: Ex military (11/22/2008 6:55:26 AM)

I am not that far to the left; however, I am in the center somewhere.    I hate war.  I just respect the ones who serve and served.
Even in my time, I had terrible things said to me which now would not happen.  Don't disrespect the troops in war.  That is just sick.
 
Thanks.

Regards, MissSCD




TheHeretic -> RE: Ex military (11/22/2008 7:43:02 AM)

          I'm a long way from being a pacifist, Aneirin.  I don't view the use of force as being a first option, but it is never off the table.

       As for the hair, yes, I grew it halfway to my ass when I got out, and a beard to go with.  I live in a damn desert now, and my hair is back to short, but my chin wouldn't pass an inspection. 




NorthernGent -> RE: Ex military (11/22/2008 7:48:41 AM)

I have a Dad who served in Aden when there was a war going on (among other places), and an Uncle who served in Northern Ireland and the Falklands.

Both retain conservative political values, and were you to spend 15 minutes in their company, you'd have a pretty good idea that they'd given a life time of service to the military.




ScooterTrash -> RE: Ex military (11/22/2008 7:56:30 AM)

I'd have to say I'm not pro war, but when given no other option, I'm far from a pacifist. Hair nearly down to my ass and a beard...hmmm, perhaps some sort of throwback to being told what to look like...ya think...lol? All that being said however, I'm still proud I did my term and lived to tell about it...although you will notice most vets don't talk about that part of their lives much.




Vendaval -> RE: Ex military (11/22/2008 3:30:50 PM)

hmm....My step-father was in the Army during WWII and was a very gentle, pacifistic man.  My older brothers were both in the Navy and are not fighting types.  A couple of cousins also served in the Army during the Korean and Vietnam eras but went back to being normal truck drivers and family men when they returned home.  They all served when the draft was still active.
 
I think much depends on whether the service was voluntary or forced by the draft.  There are other people I know who served voluntarily and who still retain much of their training and military responses.  One of them is my motocross-riding-weight-lifting-short-haired-super-macho-retired military officer submissive.  People who meet him immediately know he was/is a cop or military man.







Lorr47 -> RE: Ex military (11/22/2008 4:14:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Just a thought based upon memories prompted by Colouredin's thread, a thought about ex military.

Two observations;

Observation one: all those whom I know that are ex military, they have not one good word to say about military action, in fact they are pacifists, they don't get involved with petty squabbles in the pub or anywhere and often are anti government policy. Is this so for others, have anyone else noticed this about the ex mil people ?

Is it that military life does something positive to a person, perhaps takes the fight out of them ?

Observation two : Of those whom I know are ex mil, most wear long hair, a complete opposite to the military helmet head, has anyone noticed this, are there any ex  mil people here who wear their hair long, why is that , is it you just like it, or is it a protest to being told to cut your hair ? Me, it was a protest at first, the first time I grew it long, but now it seems I have a kink for long hair, I love wearing it and love seeing it on either gender.

So given these observations, my observations, does anyone else here think similar or could you offer a different view point



Many x military I knew were viciously against the Vietnam War.  However, the reason is probably different than what  you would think.  They were horrified that "their" military was being used as a "police force."  To them using the military as a "police force"  was asking for the distruction of the military.  Military and police have different functions.  The most rabid  anti war people were often  x military who had become police officers.  And, in retrosepect they were right.  And, look what they have our military doing in Iraq; being police officers thereby dooming our military.  We never learn.

I got out of the Marines in 1970.  My last haircut was in 1973. When I got out my beliefs mirrored SDS.  I really liked long hair per se but I also loved to piss off  judges who could not throw me out because my hair was hidden in a pony tail under my suit coat.




lazarus1983 -> RE: Ex military (11/22/2008 6:51:18 PM)

There is a common held belief that people in the military are robots, hypnotized ruthless killers, blah blah blah...Ironically enough this belief is often held by people that have never been in the military, and for all intents and purposes have no idea what they are talking about. However when you try to argue with them, they don't believe you because you're one of the robotic hypnotized ruthless killers.

But the truth is when you're a soldier you're still an individual underneath that uniform. Rarely do we view ourselves as these awe-inspiring men exhibiting honor, integrity, etc. etc. So we still have all those individual beliefs getting out of the military as we had going in. We are still the individual, just with a new set of unique experiences and habits that we take with us. What the Army gave me, and I am ever grateful for it, is a different perspective on things. A wider perspective.

The first thing I did when I got out of the Army was grow my beard. However I still keep a high fade haircut and go to the barbershop every couple weeks. I am far from a pacifist, as I believe as Robert A. Heinlein does, that pacifism is a shifty doctrine wherein a man will accept the benefits and protection of the social group without paying for it, and then claim a halo for his dishonesty.

Do not approach each veteran as the same, approach them as you would any other person: as an individual.





Aneirin -> RE: Ex military (11/22/2008 7:04:08 PM)

I am a pacifist in that I do not believe in war, nor attacking people, but what I do believe in is defence, if in defence I am pushed, then the soldier will come forth, I will fight to defend myself, my friends or my family against any aggressor. Property, that comes and goes, but life is the only thing worth preserving, things can be got again.

I joined the forces in the belief I was being trained for the  defence of my country, I failed to see where attacking another country was defending my country, I believed in fighting to defend life and limb, not the wealth of the wealthy.




popeye1250 -> RE: Ex military (11/22/2008 7:52:54 PM)

Well, I'm not a "pacifist" but I don't really want to be in Iraq.
I'd much rather have my Troops on that Mexican border where they're needed than in Iraq.
I don't like having our Troops in foreign countries to "help" them.
Remember Clinton and "peacekeepers" in Bosnia and Kosovo?
Our Troops are not "peacekeepers!"
I'm more than willing to give Obama a chance but if he tries to use our Troops in Darfur, Haiti or other shit pits he'll lose my support real quick.




TheUtopian -> RE: Ex military (11/23/2008 12:47:04 AM)

Observation number three}  Not every member of the military enlisted so as to serve their country. I joined the United States Marine corps on what they call the ''buddy program'' with two of my closest friends from HS. Not a single one of us joined up with thought of serving our country. And as a matter of fact, not a single young Marine I was in close association with, during my tenure, made the claim that they had joined to ''serve'' their country.




quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Just a thought based upon memories prompted by Colouredin's thread, a thought about ex military.

Two observations;

Observation one: all those whom I know that are ex military, they have not one good word to say about military action, in fact they are pacifists, they don't get involved with petty squabbles in the pub or anywhere and often are anti government policy. Is this so for others, have anyone else noticed this about the ex mil people ?

Is it that military life does something positive to a person, perhaps takes the fight out of them ?

Observation two : Of those whom I know are ex mil, most wear long hair, a complete opposite to the military helmet head, has anyone noticed this, are there any ex  mil people here who wear their hair long, why is that , is it you just like it, or is it a protest to being told to cut your hair ? Me, it was a protest at first, the first time I grew it long, but now it seems I have a kink for long hair, I love wearing it and love seeing it on either gender.

So given these observations, my observations, does anyone else here think similar or could you offer a different view point



As to observation number one, the hawkish query... I'm not a hawk at all ; I'm a T-Rex, homie - but only when it suits me personally.

Contextually speaking -- Over the last fifteen years, I view the United States military as an agent of corporatism.

So when they---such and such administration--- announce to the whole wide world that such and such country is their enemy because of such and such reason - In reality it might only mean that such and such enemy is only the enemy because they were not willing cooperate when such and such administration wanted/wants to steal and control their natural resources.

So in essence, these days, an enemy of whatever particular administration is currently at the helm, is not necessarily my enemy, so to speak. And for this reason, it may seem like I'm dove, when so many others appear hawkish. [:D]

As to Observation number two :  I was always one of those Marines who had a warrant officer constantly reminding him to get a hair cut. And even though I made it to E-5 in under four years, during peace time conditions, I was also one of those Marines who did everything in his power to bypass/avoid standing IG/CG inspections. But getting back to the hair - No fades here; nor long hair, for that matter. A neat, clean, medium length suits me just perfect.








- R




Irishknight -> RE: Ex military (11/23/2008 6:17:18 AM)

I just got rid of my long hair but have grown it out past shoulder length 3 different times since my time in the military was over.  The only reason I cut it this time was the combination of humidity and natural curl gave me more tangles than an invasion in the middle east by a western country.

As for my views on war..... IT FRAKKIN SUCKS!  Having said that, I believe that if you attack this country, we should turn you, your family, and anything else you hold dear to dust.  We should stay out of other countries' business and make the world realize that when we get pushed, whole countries die.  No war or total annihilation of the enemy.  Nothing in between.  It may not be right but it is my personal belief.




pahunkboy -> RE: Ex military (11/23/2008 6:23:08 AM)

well, everything in life is a war of types.

one can enjoy pluses in war- but not the majority.

I am comfy with the over 30 look.   the peiced noses and spiked hair- 12 ear rinng crap is not my thing.
It says the persons value is so diminshed they have to scar the body to stand out- which now that many are scared- those who havent are the ones who stnd out.  franky to the older folks it looks silly and unpractical.

but I do think people should be able to choose.  It isnt something I find appealing... (since you asked)





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