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RE: Should I trust them? - 11/22/2008 12:28:10 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Umm paying the debt because you owe it tends to be why people pay debts, not because the paying the debt benefits them somehow.  Your Man made an agreement to pay the debt PRIOR to the credit agency wanting him too.  This shouldn't be a well, why should we pay it off attitude.  You pay it because you OWE it and obviously putting things in writing doesn't mean much to your Man when it was in writing in the first place he would pay any debt he owes.  So why is he so concerned with a credit agency holding their word when he obviously didn't hold his and now only wants to pay it off because its harming his credit.  If he would have paid it to begin with --- it wouldn't be on his credit rating and no agency would have to put it in writing that if he does what he was supposed to in the first place, they would take off the negative effect his not paying to begin with caused..  Sorry but it seems you are putting the bearer of responsibility on the wrong party -- your Man is the one at fault here - not the agency that is trying to get him to follow through on what he agreed to in the first place.

angel


Ok, I'll tell you. My Sir had a cell phone he thought had free nights and weekends and it didn't. He immediately contacted the cell phone company  to make payment arrangements so they would get their money and his credit wouldn't be affected. They refused to keep the phone on and also refused to give him a monthly  amount to pay so he continued to pay something each month with the intention of paying off the entire balance when he had a lump sum of money in a few months. Then we found out the account had been sent to a collection agency. We called the cell phone company and they claimed he never attempted to negotiate a payment agreement which is a flat out lie because that's the first thing he did. The location where he paid every month admitted there had been a payment history each and every month since the phone was shut off. The collection agency even confirmed this.....at first. Today they changed their story. Now they are saying only 3 payments were made since the phone was shut off 9 months ago. So all the other payments he made before the bill was turned over to them suddenly don't exist? The cell phone store he paid confirmed payments were made toward the balance every month. Remember, he was ready to pay whatever amount the company wanted him to pay .....in fact he tried to get them to name an amount in the very beginning. They were the ones who refused to name an amount.

< Message edited by defiantbadgirl -- 11/22/2008 12:32:31 PM >

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Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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RE: Should I trust them? - 11/22/2008 12:34:35 PM   
SoulPiercer


Posts: 374
Joined: 5/27/2007
Status: offline 		Letter of Delete? This is why they won't put it in writing. Said letter doesn't exist. Also .. when a bill is handed over to a collection agency, they cannot add any fees to the balance. The company who hired the collection agency may tack on collection fees before turning it over to the agency.

Collection agencies "buy" bad debt accounts and they buy them for pennies on the dollar. The original company writes off the debt as a loss. This is why you are often able to pay off a debt for a fraction of the original balance.

Collection accounts won't drop off your credit simply because you paid the bill. There is no "Letter of Delete". Their offer of such a letter is illegal, which is why you not get anything in writing making such an offer. It's called the FAIR Credit Reporting Act. FAIR being the key word here. In other words, you can't buy your way into a clean credit report.

Pay off the bill. Wait a few months and check to see if it is still there. If it is, send a letter to the Credit Bureau disputing it. The Collection Agency has 30 Days to respond, if they do not respond, and they often do not, it will be removed from your credit report.



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RE: Should I trust them? - 11/22/2008 12:34:48 PM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I'm wondering if the OP goes to the original person that the money is owed to and pay in full, then get a receipt stating the debt is paid in full? All credit collectors is act on behalf of the holder of the debt and the amount owing still goes to the debt holder. Collection agencies are nothing more than legalized sharks, at least they are here in Canada. I had a student loan go into collections due to a bank error and spent 11 years trying to pay it off. I held onto every single check stub and bank draft receipt and collections still hounded me. Ended up that I paid 2.5 times what the original debt was for and was still told that I owed 8 grand. It took me filing personal bankruptcy to get rid of collections, that was 11 years ago and I am still debt free and have no red flags to my credit rating.


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RE: Should I trust them? - 11/22/2008 12:35:55 PM   
bamabbwsub


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Joined: 5/28/2007
Status: offline 		defiant, I would get copies from the cell phone company showing his payments.  If they can't/won't, get his cancelled checks (I'm hoping he paid via check) and add up the total amount that he paid.  Ask the collection agency to send you a letter stating the TOTAL amount for his debt to go away.  If it accurately reflects the amount, plus collection fees, after he tallies up his payments to the cell phone company, then pay it.  But get that letter from the collection agency stating what his TOTAL BALANCE is.  I can't imagine why they'd have a problem doing that for you.

If he isn't getting credit for his past payments, I'd call the cell phone company first, explain the situation, allow them to explain why he didn't get credited for his payments, and if that doesn't work, contact the president of the company.  I had to do this with my cable company when they deducted $72.00 twice from my account, and it took them over 6 months to refund my money.  Contacting the president of the company worked wonders for me.

_____________________________

"Everyone is normal until you get to know them." - Dave Sim

I rescue animals. My pockets and gas tank are always empty. My home is always hairy and my inbox full of sadness, but my heart is full when seeing those that are saved.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Should I trust them? - 11/22/2008 12:40:05 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Your Man should have receipts or bank statements showing what he has paid.  If he never got same, then he is irresponsible.  PAPERWORK speaks a lot more than words.  He is going to have to do a little work and put the paperwork together and send it tp people.  YES HE IS GOING TO HAVE TO DO THE WORK IF HE WANTS IT OFF HIS CREDIT REPORT.  Its called putting it all in a letter, with the exhibits showing payments and everything as well as asking in writing how much is owed so he can pay it off.  PAPERWORK from your end goes a long way.  But it seems you don't want to do the paperwork to fix this issue, you want the agency to do it.  Sorry, life doesn't work that way.  You can do the paperwork, send it to the company he owes, the credit agency and the credit bureaus disputing the negative rating.   If you are content with simply making phone calls why shouldn't the agency be also.  You can put the agreement in writing, you don't need them too.  Also cc the company he owes on the letter. 

So again, i am not seeing what the problem is.  He should have paperwork on this including any and all payments.  What do you think people should just take his word he paid?  I am sorry but i don't believe he doesn't have proof of payment or an amount he owes fully.   Again, he agreed to pay, once again you agreed to pay its recorded and now you are wanting to renege on THAT payment once again because you are using some excuse of its not in writing.  YOU can put it in writing, i told you how earlier.  If you refuse to do so, then don't whinge because they refuse to do so because they have the recording.

Yeah this issue sucks, but again the company he agreed to owe doesn't agree with what he says, he needs to SHOW them the paperwork they are obviously lacking if they don't believe payments were made.

In the end, you can always take them into court lol, IF you have the paperwork to substantiate your claim of what you believe he owes versus what they say he owes.  If you win, they will have to pay court costs if you ask for same in your complaint.   Again, its all what you are willing to do.  Whine about what they won't do or do what they won't do.

Also, call and write the original company with the issue you are having.  I once had a student loan go into default because i messed it up with another one i was paying.  I was getting harrassed by an agency and i mean harrassed and when i tried to call and make arrangements they would make it impossible to work and talk to people.  I finaly wrote the original loaner and explained with details and paperwork what was happening.  They took back the loan from this agency and once i was working with them again, it was fine.   Again, its what YOU choose to do, be a victim or the aggressor.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 11/22/2008 12:45:52 PM >

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RE: Should I trust them? - 11/22/2008 12:44:58 PM   
NorthernGent


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Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

It's bordering on brazen to appeal to 'trust' (considering you're the ones in the realms of bad debt).

Tip up, take a receipt, and follow it through.


But if they don't follow through, there is no use paying the debt because the credit rating won't improve. Another thing - most people negotiate with collection agencies to pay a reduced amount for the debt to be considered paid in full. I'm not doing that. I'm saying I'll pay the 100% full amount in one lump sum. 



You owe them money; you don't need any other reason than this to pay the debt (well, actually, the debtholder doesn't need any other reason).

Out of curiosity, why do you expect the credit rating to change once you've paid? The debtor has shown himself to be untrustworthy, regardless of whether or not you pay at this point in time. Why should the next business have to suffer at the hands of an individual who thinks it's fine to not tip up, until he needs the debt wiped for a personal reason?

Presumably the debtholder will be in court in the event he doesn't tip up? Surely this is an added incentive?

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RE: Should I trust them? - 11/22/2008 12:45:53 PM   
calamitysandra


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Joined: 3/17/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
Ok, I'll tell you.
...



That is all nice and well, but it does not change the point that he owes the money, and therefore should pay.

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RE: Should I trust them? - 11/22/2008 12:47:27 PM   
bamabbwsub


Posts: 566
Joined: 5/28/2007
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quote:

Collection accounts won't drop off your credit simply because you paid the bill...In other words, you can't buy your way into a clean credit report.

The collection agency guy should tell her that this isn't possible, instead of verbally promising that he will do this. 

quote:

Pay off the bill. Wait a few months and check to see if it is still there. If it is, send a letter to the Credit Bureau disputing it. The Collection Agency has 30 Days to respond, if they do not respond, and they often do not, it will be removed from your credit report.

I think this is excellent advice, and probably the easiest course of action.

_____________________________

"Everyone is normal until you get to know them." - Dave Sim

I rescue animals. My pockets and gas tank are always empty. My home is always hairy and my inbox full of sadness, but my heart is full when seeing those that are saved.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Should I trust them? - 11/22/2008 12:50:14 PM   
moonvine


Posts: 780
Joined: 11/7/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl



I don't have a home phone, only a prepaid cell so until I get a home phone that probably won't work. I just don't understand why they would readily agree to something but refuse to send a copy of the agreement in writing.


Because they are lying.  They want their money and will agree to anything to get it.

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RE: Should I trust them? - 11/22/2008 12:58:30 PM   
SoulPiercer


Posts: 374
Joined: 5/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bamabbwsub

quote:

Collection accounts won't drop off your credit simply because you paid the bill...In other words, you can't buy your way into a clean credit report.

The collection agency guy should tell her that this isn't possible, instead of verbally promising that he will do this. 


The collection agency wants to get paid. They will verbally promise anything to achieve that goal, however, as the OP has seen, they will never put it writing. That's how you know that what they are promising is not true.

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Do you have any idea how many bones you have left for me to break? - Batman

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RE: Should I trust them? - 11/22/2008 1:03:01 PM   
bamabbwsub


Posts: 566
Joined: 5/28/2007
Status: offline 		And this is the very reason why she should get a letter stating that if she pays X amount, the debt is cleared.  Leave off the statement that the debt will be removed from her Dom's credit rating.  They *should* be able to do that.

_____________________________

"Everyone is normal until you get to know them." - Dave Sim

I rescue animals. My pockets and gas tank are always empty. My home is always hairy and my inbox full of sadness, but my heart is full when seeing those that are saved.

(in reply to SoulPiercer)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Should I trust them? - 11/22/2008 1:05:41 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		He does have a record that payments were made every month. He paid by debit card and can get those records from the bank. The problem he has is proving that he immediately upon learning of the debt contacted the cell phone company to set up payment arrangements. They are saying he never contacted  them to set anything up and that's why it was turned over to a collection agency. He did immediately contact them and they are lying and denying it. The point is, all he ever wanted to do was pay what he owes and keep his good credit record and this account was turned over to a collection agency when it shouldn't have been. Why should he pay off a company that did this to him? He didn't deserve to have his credit ruined because he contacted them right away. They owe it to him to take this off his credit or they don't deserve to get their money....ever.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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RE: Should I trust them? - 11/22/2008 1:12:29 PM   
bamabbwsub


Posts: 566
Joined: 5/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Why should he pay off a company that did this to him? He didn't deserve to have his credit ruined because he contacted them right away. They owe it to him to take this off his credit or they don't deserve to get their money....ever.


defiant, with that kind of reasoning, you're going to lose.  There is no way to prove that he contacted them (I'm not saying that he didn't), so that point is now moot.  If you are going to insist that he *doesn't* owe them the money, then you're going to have to back it up with something other than his word vs. theirs.  It sucks, but honestly, he probably should have been more proactive by going down to the local store and refusing to leave until he had some sort of written agreement with them. 

If you don't pay the debt, it will never go away, and with the country being slow to offer credit nowadays, it's more important for him to pay the debt than to try to strong-arm the company.  He really doesn't have a leg to stand on without some kind of proof.  I would, however, make sure that he gets credit for his past payments.

_____________________________

"Everyone is normal until you get to know them." - Dave Sim

I rescue animals. My pockets and gas tank are always empty. My home is always hairy and my inbox full of sadness, but my heart is full when seeing those that are saved.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
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RE: Should I trust them? - 11/22/2008 1:22:54 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoulPiercer

Letter of Delete? This is why they won't put it in writing. Said letter doesn't exist.

There is no "Letter of Delete". Their offer of such a letter is illegal,


Then why do so many websites say things like this?

If you pay a collection or settle a debt make sure you obtain a “deletion” and not a “paid collection” entry.  This also applies to paying a debt directly to the creditor.  Your creditors have the power to delete entries they put on your credit file. Never let them tell you they don't.  Just like they put it on, they can take it off. Some collection agencies even charge a “deletion fee” but it is well worth the cost. A paid collection and an unpaid collection hold the same negative weight.

Your credit score will not improve once you pay a collection, especially if that collection is recent. When you negotiate a deletion ALWAYS get it in writing BEFORE you pay the debt. This is your proof and once you have a deletion letter you may submit a request for the item to be removed from your credit report  directly to the credit bureaus by faxing or mailing that letter. See Deletions for more information and sample letter.



_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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RE: Should I trust them? - 11/22/2008 1:25:10 PM   
curious1IL


Posts: 9
Joined: 7/27/2008
Status: offline 		Did he keep a record of who he talked to when? Every company I've ever dealt with is required to keep a record of who they talked to, when, and what about. The cell phone company should have this record, and if they don't, hopefully he has the name of who he talked to, and the time and date said conversation occurred. If he can prove the conversation occurred, even if no record was actually kept, you might have something. You will still have to pay the debt (obviously), but it would show the effort was made on his part.

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RE: Should I trust them? - 11/22/2008 1:25:43 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Okay again, WHY CAN'T YOU WRITE THE LETTER CONFIRMING THE AGREEMENT BEFORE YOU PAY IT?   You seem to be stamping your foot about the unfairness of what the company is doing yet not willing to help yourself.  I am honestly trying to figure out your bitch here OP, was this whole thread just a whine about how unfair the company is?  People are telling you what to do and you just want to whinge about how he shouldn't have to pay a debt he owes.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 11/22/2008 1:29:02 PM >

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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RE: Should I trust them? - 11/22/2008 1:37:41 PM   
KatyLied


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Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

or they don't deserve to get their money....ever.


You have got to be kidding.  He owes them their money.  He entered into a contractural obligation and you can see how seriously he treated it. 


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RE: Should I trust them? - 11/22/2008 1:38:02 PM   
MsAlaria


Posts: 31
Joined: 12/15/2007
From: Richmond, VA
Status: offline 		Collection agencies are notorious for their bad practices which is why we have the Fair Credit Reporting Act.  Many people have said the same thing.  You can whine about the unfairness of it all day long, but it will not change the fact that by law, they do not have to remove the negative rating because its paid off.  An unpaid or slow-paid debt is still that no matter what the reason.  He CAN have a letter with documentation added to his credit report that outlines his efforts in the beginning with proof of continued payments as backup. 

IF you want something in writing from them, send them a certified or overnight letter (something that must be signed for) telling them that you want to pay the balance off but want proof (ie a receipt or copy of the letter sent to the credit bureaus removing the bad debt, if they chose to) that it has been paid off.  The reason for doing this is that you have proof they received it, and by law they have 30 days to respond to that letter or there are certain consequences.  You also have the right to request documentation proving the amount of the debt.  If they are unwilling to provide anything in writing, then its a judgment call because the debt is still owed and they have the right to try and collect and by law, they do not have to put anything in writing for you, other than providing the above mentioned proof of debt.

Note:  This is based on experience from working at 3 different collection agencies in the past in Admin. 

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Should I trust them? - 11/22/2008 1:40:25 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Because it won't work. There has to be a signed copy of the agreement from them for me to send to the three credit bureaus in case they don't follow through.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Should I trust them? - 11/22/2008 1:40:44 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

They are saying he never contacted  them to set anything up and that's why it was turned over to a collection agency.



Ahh well, this is a new snippet of info entering the fray.

Assuming it's true, it looks like he's been had over and will have to learn the hard way: only written agreements are of use in these matters. You can protest 'til the cows come home, but where you have nothing in writing you're wasting your time.

One question though: why are you paying his debt?

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 40
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