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wetsub000 -> Training (12/22/2005 9:25:38 PM)

This question is specifically for Doms. I’ve often been approached by Doms stating things like ‘I’ve trained three subs’ or ‘I’m a training Master’; but somehow they never state the type of training they’ve given. Is there a definition out there that I’ve missed? Do they simply mean that they’ve had three subs who have learnt how to please them during the course of the relationship? I’ve learnt a bit during the time I’ve been dabbling in BDSM – but I’d never consider putting something on my profile like ‘I’m a trained sub’ – it seems pretty pointless to me. The people I’ve met so far on my journey have been so different and their expectations and requirements unique.

From any of those out there who use this term ‘training’ without any qualification can you explain what you mean?



Focus50 -> RE: Training (12/22/2005 11:27:07 PM)

Learning how best to serve and please your Dom/me qualifies as training. Considering it's doubtful any 2 Doms want specific things done the same way, there is no such thing as basic training for a sub.

Sure, a "trained sub" (or any sub with r/l experience) will embrace training more readily and consequently learn faster than a newbie but it's just as likely she'll have learnt things that I neither want, require or even approve of and she'll then need a certain level of "untraining" too! Anyway, training is fun and she doesn't have to learn it all in a day or even a month....

I'll be surprised if any self-confessed "training dom" posts here as I tend to think it's wank bait targeted mostly at naive but eager newbie subs.

But it's obvious that you already see the red flag waving on "training" doms.... Train yourself to block or delete when you come across them.

Focus.



sweetpettjenny -> RE: Training (12/23/2005 4:04:28 AM)

Any new relationship requires training , regardless of how many years experience you do or don't have. Every single Dominant is different in their own expectations. I sometimes think people who say " ive trained 3 subs" are not into relationships but focused more on playing with others.



Wildfleurs -> RE: Training (12/23/2005 6:09:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wetsub000

This question is specifically for Doms. I’ve often been approached by Doms stating things like ‘I’ve trained three subs’ or ‘I’m a training Master’; but somehow they never state the type of training they’ve given. Is there a definition out there that I’ve missed? Do they simply mean that they’ve had three subs who have learnt how to please them during the course of the relationship? I’ve learnt a bit during the time I’ve been dabbling in BDSM – but I’d never consider putting something on my profile like ‘I’m a trained sub’ – it seems pretty pointless to me. The people I’ve met so far on my journey have been so different and their expectations and requirements unique.

From any of those out there who use this term ‘training’ without any qualification can you explain what you mean?



Personally I think that most of the people who describe themselves are trainers or people that say they are being trained, don’t actually literally mean they are being trained. Typically it either means 1) I’m playing casually with X person 2) I’m in a new relationship with X person and getting to know them.

To me training is where you agree to learn under another person’s tutelage. There are specific objectives and a general outline of the learning that are set out fairly early. The trainer isn’t the trainee’s dominant nor do they exert that kind of authority over the trainee. And the trainer actually teaches the trainee objective, transferable, specific skills that increase what the trainee has to offer.

Quite frankly I think there are few people that have the skills set to be a trainer, let alone would have the actual interest in training. I think its become one of those horrible catch phrases that people use to poof themselves up (subs that use it to seem more subbly and dominants that use it to seem more experienced than they are).

C~



B1gbear -> RE: Training (12/23/2005 6:10:53 AM)

Basically they mean they know how to train a sub to meet their expectations. If they have trained subs to serve them they are no different than every other Dom out there. If they have trained subs who did not serve them.....but rather trained them in the general ways of the lifestyle, then they are 'trainers'. All trainers have one specialty or another. Most will not train in anything but the basics of the psychology of the lifestyle, positions, protocols, etc. This is due to the fact that every Master has his own personal taste and preferences. No point in teaching someone something just to be untaught it when they are collared. If you want to know, just ask them. Training can be too vast to just lay out in a few short sentences. I focus on the psychology and protocol, because I believe these are the most important things a sub can know when seeking to be prepared for a future Master/Mistress. I never train any sub/slave in sexual or S/M teachings as those are for the future Master/Mistress to teach as they prefer. The only exception is if I intend to make the sub/slave mine in the end.

There are real trainers out there, even professional ones, but knowing how to train is a basic necessity of all Doms to one degree or another. Real trainers are 'teachers' at heart and in action. A big difference than just training your own sub. Training also comes in many forms. We all like to think of the traditional slave training house theme. The sub is brought in like in the Story of O and trained to be a slave through hard rules and conditioning. That happens, but most training is done more personally and voluntarily on an as we have time to do it basis. Then there is this thread....and all the others that myself and many other Doms respond to. Our advice posts are a form of training too. We are 'educating' those who don't know what we are about to share. IE, training. Training = education. It's pretty simple actually, nothing mystical at all.

Let's not rule out the fact that every last profile on this site is also a resume. People tend to beef up their resumes, not down play them.



JohnWarren -> RE: Training (12/23/2005 7:28:47 AM)

I've introduced many novices to the scene and I've provided up-to-then unknown experiences for submissives who have been in the scene for a while, but I've rarely seen myself as "training."

You see, the primary motivation of a submissive or a slave is the comfort and well being of the partner. Since partners vary widly in needs and expecation, really the only person who can train a submissive is someone the submissive sees as a partner. That means listening, being aware and trying to get inside one person's head. That can't be done third hand.

On the negative side, one of the most disappointing partner's I've had was a "completely trained submissive" who had been owned by a professional dominant. Almost EVERYTHING she did from walking with me to giving head was completely wrong for me. For example, I like gentle sucking and what she had been trained to do was emulate a Hoover with teeth. When we walked she's drift back until she was three steps behind. Imagine trying to hold a conversation about how we would set up the torture stations for a party while the other party was walking behind you in a crowded mall. It did draw some looks.



Padriag -> RE: Training (12/23/2005 7:39:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wetsub000

This question is specifically for Doms. I’ve often been approached by Doms stating things like ‘I’ve trained three subs’ or ‘I’m a training Master’; but somehow they never state the type of training they’ve given. Is there a definition out there that I’ve missed? Do they simply mean that they’ve had three subs who have learnt how to please them during the course of the relationship?

I take statements like that with a large grain of salt, as others have said, most who make such claims tend to be players.

quote:

From any of those out there who use this term ‘training’ without any qualification can you explain what you mean?

All dominants train in the process of teaching a submissive what they expect, what pleases them, etc. But most do not have an organized style or method of training, there's no manual and no label for it beyond it being their personal style. There are a few exceptions, there are groups (sometimes called Houses) which have formal training methods, the Gorean style could be considered a formal method (it has specifics about how a slave should be trained, things that are written down, and if a slave has been trained in the Gorean style the basics of what she learns will be familiar to other Goreans), and there have been a few attempts to create training methods published online (B.E.S.T comes to mind). Claims to Old Guard and Victorian training styles I take with a grain of salt, those I've encountered turned out to be an individuals personal interpretation of such, I've yet to see anything consistent I could call an "Old Guard methodology".



KnightofMists -> RE: Training (12/23/2005 8:11:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wetsub000

This question is specifically for Doms. I’ve often been approached by Doms stating things like ‘I’ve trained three subs’ or ‘I’m a training Master’; but somehow they never state the type of training they’ve given. Is there a definition out there that I’ve missed? Do they simply mean that they’ve had three subs who have learnt how to please them during the course of the relationship? I’ve learnt a bit during the time I’ve been dabbling in BDSM – but I’d never consider putting something on my profile like ‘I’m a trained sub’ – it seems pretty pointless to me. The people I’ve met so far on my journey have been so different and their expectations and requirements unique.

From any of those out there who use this term ‘training’ without any qualification can you explain what you mean?



Well... I consider training as very specificially as educating or coaching a sub/slave exactly on what are my pleasures and preferences in how they behave and interact with me. I with Focus50 on the thought that there is NO basic training for subs/slaves. Not in a universal sense that is for sure. Training is very individualistic to the Dom/Master as well as the particular sub/slave that desires to learn how to please the Dom/Master. Now for me everytime I see a Dom/Master claiming to be the glorified trainer of subs/slaves... well my first consideration is how many subs/slaves do they have... most times it's a big fat zero... then all I can say is.. mmmmmmmm guess the training programs isnt so good lol. Of course they always claim they where training the sub/slave for someone else... then I just feel sorry for the sub/slave and the frustrated Dom/Master that is attempting to train out of the bad habits.

I have like many individuals have provided advice and/or mentorship to novices exploring and learning the lifestyle. I keep things very informal and would never claim it be training... for frankly training to me is a more formal process in comparison to mentorship of novices. I think it is important to understand the definitions of the person word they use. One dominant's use of the word training could very well be just my idea of providing informal advice. Don't put to much value into the word... look at the substance... and then fit that into your own definitions and labels. It will either work for you or not.




Archer -> RE: Training (12/23/2005 9:05:09 AM)

If you enjoy having a bit of fun with this type of person it can be a real joy to interigate/ ask them some real basic questions and watch as they twist and turn and avoid answering the questions asked. LOL

As you have read so far most of the people claiming to be "Training Dominants" are players who enjoy the initial aspects of taking a nebie's cherries. giving them their first experiences at XYZ and then when they are tierd of them (ie when they start to reach a point where they need something in return) they "graduate" them telling them they are trained and ready to go on to a Domiant.

There are though a few people who enjoy passing on very specific close to universally valuable skills. Such things as basic cooking skills, basic organizational skills, basic things you can learn in alot of non kinky venues just as well as you can with them, but might enjoy the different twist of application of the skills.

The odds against finding anyone worth while claiming to be a "Training Dominant" are pretty high, so you can pretty much disqualify anyone you would find online for the job.
If you want to feel that you are activly preparing yourself for a D/s M/s relationship that's a good thing but you can easily do that on your own or with a little help from books and vanilla classes for the most part.

A good place to start if you want to train yourself to be ready when it happens is websites based on service/ domestic job fields. The Butler's Guild being one really good resource.
Cooking classes in various styles can be helpfull, budgetting ability ie keeping a houshold budget is a pretty universally valuable skill. Getting some basic skills in domestic skills can go a long way in showing that you are actively preparing yourself and thus a motivated person really seeeking something and working towards it. Sure the skills may in the end be not used, but having them doesn't hurt you any.

Just some basic thoughts and advice worth exactly what you paid me for it

In Leather

Archer



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Training (12/23/2005 11:45:58 AM)

Usually when someone says that they really mean "I've had a Ds relationship with three people"

Kudos to you for ASKING what they mean and trying to get a better picture of what's going on.

There are a few specific training dominants, who are in it pretty much just as a sensai or priest is and is not there for any personal romantic relationship. These are rare.




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Training (12/23/2005 11:48:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
sub" (or any sub with r/l experience) will embrace training more readily and consequently learn faster than a newbie

Actually I've seen more than a handful of subs balk at a new doms methods because "That's not how I was trained to do it!" Depends on how good a slave is at being adaptable. This of course can be trained over time as well.



candystripper -> RE: Training (12/23/2005 12:54:12 PM)

The "trainer" was actually the first pedator i came across on CM. He wants to read your journal (which may end up on His web page someday); He refuses you contact with any Man or with the site; He tells you, you'll be required to do 3 months at His house which you will pay for and which will include induction into some pretty heavy S & M activities.

My Mentor rescued me from this louse, as He later did from others (i was a bit of a handful, LOL) and he taught me what the "skillls and interests" were, and the kinds of lies Men commonly tell (Naw, i'm not married; naw, i'll give up S & M for you; naw, i'm serious about a relationship but need to "try you out"; etc, etc, etc.). He taught me the difference between a horse and horse manure.

He is a wonderful Man and i wish we were closer now, but He has other demands on His time.

Meantime i learnt to take it slow and be sure. i have been lied to enough to last a lifetime, but oh well, liars are their own punishment.

candystripper



Focus50 -> RE: Training (12/23/2005 1:03:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross


quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
sub" (or any sub with r/l experience) will embrace training more readily and consequently learn faster than a newbie

Actually I've seen more than a handful of subs balk at a new doms methods because "That's not how I was trained to do it!" Depends on how good a slave is at being adaptable. This of course can be trained over time as well.

Yes, and it usually takes all of 5 seconds for me to explain and her to grasp that I do things *this* particular way....

You've gotta keep in mind that I'm not into the lifestyle's version of training show ponies per se', I only teach *my* girl how I wanna be served or pleased and only by *her*. In that context, even 5 seconds seems excessive....

And some things take longer than others to learn or "unlearn", too, but it's in both our interests that she does for the benefit of the greater *relationship* - the time needed is therefore NOT a factor....

Focus.



OscarHargraves -> RE: Training (12/23/2005 10:59:43 PM)



quote:

i have been lied to enough to last a lifetime, but oh well, liars are their own punishment.


Ah dearest Candy .......... that sounded so strange coming from one in your profession. Would that more of your esteemed collegues felt that way.



wetsub000 -> RE: Training (12/24/2005 12:19:34 AM)

Thanks all who replied for more or less echoing my thoughts on the matter. I should have known that none of those people who use the term so blithely would actually be on a forum like this. :-)



B1gbear -> RE: Training (12/24/2005 9:09:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

The "trainer" was actually the first pedator i came across on CM. He wants to read your journal (which may end up on His web page someday); He refuses you contact with any Man or with the site; He tells you, you'll be required to do 3 months at His house which you will pay for and which will include induction into some pretty heavy S & M activities.


Excellent points made in this post. Claims to be a trainer is a very common tool of the preditor. True trainers, seperate from any other Dom out there will distinguish themselves by very commonly identifying themselves as a mentor, not a trainer. It's very very difficult to 'train' anyone online. Training is done first person in RT. Mentoring is done either in person or online, as one requires focused lessons, the other is simple advice and guidance. Also, unless a trainer is training you to serve him or her...a real trainer will not ever teach S/M play or sexual activity. The pure psychology behind the teacher studen dynamic makes such unwise unless you want the student to begin to identify with the teacher as Master/Mistress. Preditors use that to their advantage and encourage it. A teacher (trainer), discourages it as they know it is an unhealthy dynamic if the submissive is not to serve them in the end. I will spend months getting to know a sub before I will agree to enter into any kind of a formal mentoring arrangement. I never train anyone who I am not in contact with RT and have the same advantage of getting to know them before starting that process. How often do I even agree to mentor someone? About once every year or two. My time is valuable and this requires a huge investment mentally and of my time to guide someone on a journey into this lifestyle. The reward for for the mentor is very commonly a slap in the face when the sub runs off disgarding everything I told her at the first Dom she gets infatuated with. Real mentors and trainers are careful where they invest their time and attention.

with that said.....look at the pattern. A preditor or a wannabe using the title trainer will be all but insisting you dive right into the training relationship.....trying hard to close the noose and lock you in and away from anyone else's touch. Just use common sense, its quite easy to tell a preditor from the real thing. Anyone with experience is not so eager to take on the responsibility of someone they hardly know anything about. They KNOW what they are getting into and are not looking at what they can take over what they will offer.



DonSir -> RE: Training (12/29/2005 12:46:56 PM)

Hello all, I'm new here to Collarme, but not a new dominant. I have 10 years experience in the BDSM/leather lifestyle with the last six years doing public play and the last 2 years giving presentations on areas such as the use of whips/floggers, scene dynamics, interdominant relationships, mentoring and general BDSM/leather topics. All of that was meant as an introduction, not a qualification. I've observed BDSM relationships and behavior to be intensely personal interactions where one's experiences are so very different from another's. That said, I'd like to say that my own introduction into the scene and subsequent learning was by and large a trial and error process. I learned by watching and taught myself how to use most of the things I play with today. I recieved no formal training, as it were, in dungeon behavior, interpersonal BDSM dynamics, mechanics, protocol, rules, etiquitte, etc. Those available to teach were either unwilling or unable to mentor me so I therefore made more mistakes than had successes. I feel that dominants are capable of teaching dominants, tops teaching tops, Masters teaching Masters. On the flip side I feel that submissives are best suited for teaching other submissives, and so on. The short explanation is that dominants, by their very nature, have no interest in the process of submission or surrender except where it is directly related to them. I have taught many people, tops or bottoms, how to crack a whip, tie a knot, use a flogger, pull someone's hair, etc. But I'm unable to teach anyone how to be dominant or submissive. I can offer suggestions on how to slap someone's face without leaving bruises, but I can' teach someone how to give or take a face slap and like it. The terms topping and bottoming seem to refer to acts or actions and therefore refer to some sort of technique or mechanical process where as dominance and submission seem to refer to states of mind rather than acts. Therefore teaching mechanics and techniques is simple compared to teaching a mindset.

Ok, that's enough of that. The shadier side of this whole "training" thing is that predators use it to chickenhawk their intended victims. Newbies are ripe for exploitation because they don't know better, or are convinced that real time BDSM is just like what they read in Story of O or The Marketplace Series (fine books but they are, after all, works of fiction). Predators come in all shapes, colors, ages, sexes, experience levels...with the most prolific chickenhawkers being a bit older with just enough experience to say the right things to suck in the uninitiated. Key terms to watch out for: "I can make you feel things you've never felt before" No shit sherlock, give me a stun gun and I can do that to anyone. "I can help you experience things you can't ever imagine" Again, true but your point is? "I can open you up to areas of yourself that even you didn't know existed" Bold claim. Never trust anyone who claims to know more about you than you do. Perhaps they have a pretty good grasp of phsychology but no one knows us better than we know ourselves. And finally, my favorite, "You may not be a slave now, but after I'm done with you a slave is all you'll ever want to be" Gag. This is great for those newbie submissives who really buy into the "bodice-ripper" romance novels.

The bottom line here is to take responsibility for your own ignorance and try to find others who can offer information that is helpful to you on all levels: spiritual, mental, emotional, instinctual, and sexual. Get to know yourself first before handing yourself off to someone for "training," otherwise you might wind up in a snuff film.

Don



KatyLied -> RE: Training (12/29/2005 1:02:23 PM)

The only person who can "train" (I hate that word) you is the person you choose to be with. You learn what he (or she) likes and dislikes. It is specific, to that person. It's not some sort of general regime that just anyone can teach you.



MasterLark -> RE: Training (12/29/2005 1:25:19 PM)

JohnWarren had it correct when he writes:

"You see, the primary motivation of a submissive or a slave is the comfort and well being of the partner. Since partners vary widly in needs and expecation, really the only person who can train a submissive is someone the submissive sees as a partner. That means listening, being aware and trying to get inside one person's head. That can't be done third hand."

This is not training in the usual way of thinking about training, so, no, saying that you are a "trained sub" does not mean anything in the usual way you think of training; it does suggest you have had some experiences, and may also suggest you may need to un-learn what you have learned or been "trained" to do.

There is much to learn, and the learning happens between both partners, all the time.



Oberonrex -> RE: Training (12/30/2005 11:40:20 AM)

This post and the responses hits a huge chord in me, because I do identify as liking to teach and train. That phrase is used with deliberation, and is a poor second to my preferred term -- sensei.

To me, teaching is two-fold. I love to teach in life and in the lifestyle. Part of it is a way of giving back, part is a desire to share knowledge that has been hard and sometimes painfully learned, and part is in trying to keep others from harm. I have taught classes, workshops, and seminars on electrical play (primarily in the SE) with the latter heavily in mind. Looking back over more than 20 years of experimentation, I am lucky not to have severely hurt myself. By teaching others, I can keep them from my mistakes and hopefully send them on a safer path to the pleasures/pain they seek. That such may also block safe-but-negative experiences that would turn people away is a bonus.

When I say that I teach and train, it is much more in line with what John Warren and B1gbear have posted. There is such breadth and depth to BDSM that one of the first things I do is ask some questions and then work to get them familiar with as much of said breadth as possible. That includes reading assignments, attending events, and more. They need to know that range, some basic psychology and bdsm psychology, and some of the classic warning signs for "run away" time. If/when they have specific interests, I will work with those and guide them where I have expertise, and get them to experts where I don't. True training in my style/likes/dislikes is a separate issue.

It may be that this self-identification on my part is a weed out to some, but that is fine. For I use the converse as a weed out: anyone who demands that I simply start training (particularly online, which is a joke) and is unwilling to read or do any basic learning (i.e. skip the teaching part) is not someone worth my time. It may be that mentor is a better term, but it is also one that I have seen misused and more importantly, misunderstood just as sensei is misunderstood. Find the perfect term and I will bow to a wise person. Otherwise, I take perferred terminology in the same way I view those who claim that there is but one true protocol in BDSM -- with a large grain of salt.

I teach what I can when and how I can, and send to experts in areas where I can't. I train in my preferred way, and make sure that they are aware of other ways and systems. If nothing else, I hope that those with whom I work come away with the knowledge that there is always more to learn, and an interest in pursuing such.



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