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RE: The new minority - 11/24/2008 5:59:01 AM   
colouredin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

As a middle aged WASP, I have never felt as though I was discriminated against based on color, religion etc. If you look around, we still pretty well control things as a group. Look at the Board Rooms of major corporations, the CEOs, the heads of Government. Women out number us but there is still a large number of women filling what are considered "women's professions", and "traditional roles".


And as a young women i dont think i have ever been discriminated against due to my gender nor age in the real world.

There are still a large number of men doing 'mens roles' i do think people fail to see that maybe thats because gender does actually make people differant.

Im from the UK so maybe it makes a differance, people seem to have to clarify that they are american when making posts. I think here in the company I keep and the jobs I do political correctness is bloody everywhere and its rather frustrating

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RE: The new minority - 11/24/2008 6:06:22 AM   
Aneirin


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It used to be in Britain, not sure if it is now, that if you were a healthy, young, British birth, traditional ethnic British, able bodied, unattached, unreligious, single male, you were nothing, you were completely on your own as no council, political or special interest group is interested in you. That was the consensus of oppinion of many I knew when it came to social housing. If one did not have any of the 'minority' or 'disability' tags, you were entitled to nothing, no help from anyone. The advice was given though those people that did not fit into a special interest group were in theory entitled to the same help as anyone else, it was just that the special groups took priority and when the special groups have priority, there is more special groups than there are of those not in a special group.

With social housing, the advice was from the council, 'your status would improve if you 'shack up' with a pregnant woman', even then though your status would be better, the pregnant woman is the interest and holds the power in the situation. Even recently with myself, well, only last year, the employment services told me my benefits. would become easier to live on if I were with a partner, they knew single persons entitlement was not enough to live on and were amazed at those that manage. It strikes me that the benefit entitlement is purposfully kept low to force single people off benefits as soon as possible. Possibly this works for some, but others who are ill sink deeper, and the less inclined to work, possibly enter the world of crime to make ends meet.

I do know of people who have actually read up in books about symptoms of mental illness to convince medics in the hope that they can access a special interest group so they may have the same benefits as those in the special groups, the belief being that special group people have an advantage in life. The resultant is, given the feigned mental illness, they are pumped full of dodgy medications that they don't need and it creates a problem where they did not have any before.

It is quite possible that the group of people that don't fit into any special interest group, are in fact saddened by their status and the unfairness they see in society. For the want to feign a mental illness and be willing to take medications they don't need, that does indicate an illness, perhaps the illness of hopelessness, the unfairness they see in the society they are supposed to be part of.

And contrary to the LGA, queue jumping does exist, the very status of a woman that becomes pregnant, the authorities have to provide adequate accomodation for that status, the birth of an um changes the status again and if that um has any disability, again the status changes, the authorities have to respond to the status, so  a woman who might be in the minimum group with the single males, can jump status in as much as nine months. Many single people know this and if desperate enough, a woman will seek pregnancy for the increased status it gives her.

Maybe if housing was available and affordable in this country, we wouldn't have this stupid situation where a percentage of the population feels unheard and unwanted and prepared to ruin themselves just to be treated as any other member of the population, the equality they seek. Perhaps even if our society actually recognised these healthy young un- anything people are actually the strength of the country, they might be in a better situation, more emphasis on the workers, not the 'disabled ', sure look after those that struggle, but focus some attention at the people that are capable of moving the country forward.

Just think, if we ever became an industrialised nation again, will we actually have the workforce available, or will they all seek to do other, given that their moral is broken.


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RE: The new minority - 11/24/2008 7:07:52 AM   
colouredin


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Thats very true in my field of study Anerin. We catagorise everyone, you have to fit certain critera to be eligable for help, the lines are very rigid and if you dont fit them its tough.

I do think that white able bodied hetrosexual men are chucked to the bottom of the pile on the assumtion that is prevelent in this thread that 'oh well they are ok'

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RE: The new minority - 11/24/2008 7:46:24 AM   
Aneirin


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I know very few, in fact I will go as far as to say, no one that is of that group are entirely happy with their status. They work and they work hard, often for a sub average pay deal which is quite the norm in this neck of the woods. They live with their parents, at the age of 28 and older, not because they are 'mummies boys', but because there is no hope of finding any accomodation of their own given the cost of accomodation in this country. Move in with a girlfriend is an option, but again the wages they both receive is not enough for even a frugal lifestyle and tell me if I am wrong in saying this, but two people that work hard, all day, are they not entitled to some luxuries in their life ? Moving in together would mean an extreme drop in lifestyle.

Many would say, a young couple starting off together, well, it is expected that they start off with nothing as many others have done, but there exists a problem with that, for they see people not working or working to a lesser extent that have a comfortable lifestyle, their extra needs and more are met by special funding groups. They feel discriminated against.

The more special groups that are created and help given, the more discriminated the able bodied not anything but healthy will feel disgruntled and there the least likely they will be to follow a path of honest employment and living.

Perhaps it is that special group formation and interest, will actually be the end of the hard working individual, as the discriminated against will seek a group that suits their needs to avoid discrimination, i.e., be like everyone else.

One has to understand, not every one is in a high flying job that pays for a good lifestyle, there are many, many more  doing jobs of the more mundane, the little jobs that keep society ticking over, but pay the minimum.


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RE: The new minority - 11/24/2008 10:45:58 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

but two people that work hard, all day, are they not entitled to some luxuries in their life ?

No, they are not.

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RE: The new minority - 11/24/2008 10:54:46 AM   
Aneirin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

but two people that work hard, all day, are they not entitled to some luxuries in their life ?

No, they are not.


Please explain why not.


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: The new minority - 11/24/2008 11:03:28 AM   
giveeverything


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I think a more accurate discription is "protected class" rather than minority group.  I'm sorry if I can't cry big tears for white middle class men. 

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RE: The new minority - 11/24/2008 11:12:10 AM   
colouredin


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Well then I would say you probably havent read the thread. I would say that they are the most unprotected by the system and policy.

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RE: The new minority - 11/24/2008 11:24:23 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

but two people that work hard, all day, are they not entitled to some luxuries in their life ?

No, they are not.


Please explain why not.


Because people aren't "entitled" to a damn thing. The idea that people are "entitled" to something is a quaint delusion at best and a vicious lie at worst.

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RE: The new minority - 11/24/2008 11:32:54 AM   
Aneirin


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I disagree with you, everyone is entitled to fair treatment regardless of their status.

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Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: The new minority - 11/24/2008 12:39:00 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I disagree with you, everyone is entitled to fair treatment regardless of their status.

Two flaws with that:

1. What is "fair"?

2. What will you do if you don't get "fair treatment"?



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RE: The new minority - 11/24/2008 12:47:39 PM   
Vendaval


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CL,
 
You recently asked when is it appropriate to take up arms or actively resist the government I believe.  Is this line of questioning in the same vein?

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RE: The new minority - 11/24/2008 12:57:18 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

CL,
 
You recently asked when is it appropriate to take up arms or actively resist the government I believe.  Is this line of questioning in the same vein?

No. That was an open hypothetical for the purpose of encouraging a diverse discussion on the point.

The questions I posed above illuminate a logical weakness in the notion of people being "entitled" to "fair treatment." Yeah, it's great when people are nice to one another, but only a fool expects it to happen as a matter of course.


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RE: The new minority - 11/24/2008 1:01:04 PM   
Vendaval


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So then, what are your expectations of a polite society or any society at all for that matter?

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"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


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RE: The new minority - 11/24/2008 1:02:24 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

So then, what are your expectations of a polite society or any society at all for that matter?

That people will have to stand up for themselves, will have to answer for themselves, and will have to take responsibility for themselves.



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RE: The new minority - 11/24/2008 1:07:12 PM   
Vendaval


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How about social etiquette and old-fashioned courtesy? 

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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RE: The new minority - 11/24/2008 1:13:43 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

How about social etiquette and old-fashioned courtesy? 

They work wonders, but unless you have some notion of what to do when they are not forthcoming, it's not likely you're going to see much of either.

Manners, courtesy, and respect are all good things--but they don't ever just "happen" on their own. People have to insist on them, and put out more than a little effort to obtain them. If the effort is not made, the manners will not be in evidence.

The current rude and obnoxious state of our "entitled" society is more than adequate proof of that.

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RE: The new minority - 11/24/2008 1:28:00 PM   
Vendaval


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Are you saying that the entitlement mentality is a result from a lack of respect for social courtesies?  Or do you have an opinion on how to respond when such courtesies are not given?

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The new minority - 11/24/2008 1:53:33 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Are you saying that the entitlement mentality is a result from a lack of respect for social courtesies?  Or do you have an opinion on how to respond when such courtesies are not given?

I am saying the entitlement mentality makes people think they don't have to do anything to gain courtesy, manners, or respect from others, and consequently have damn little idea of how to show any of them either.

As far as how to respond when courtesies are not given, it depends on the situation. If a waiter/waitress is rude or insufferable in a restaurant, I'll usually express my displeasure to the manager. If someone attempts to get in front of me at a checkout line, I'll usually just block them with my arm and tell them simply, "No." If someone gets in my face, then we get to have a little fun. When the downstairs neighbors have the stereo too loud, I knock on their door and ask them to turn it down--and complain to property management if they don't.

On the flip side, I don't play my music too loud, I say please and thank you to the waiter or waitress, and generally don't get in people's faces (although I don't hesitate to call stupid actions stupid).


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RE: The new minority - 11/24/2008 2:03:14 PM   
Vendaval


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OK, now your point of view is clearer to me.  I make an effort to be at least basically polite with people in social situations.  Until they show that their behavior is substandard and then it is time to block, ignore, delete, move-on or tell them to shut up.  And there are times when you do have to yell back or make a big scene to get an asshole to fuck off.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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Profile   Post #: 40
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