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RE: so Brits - what to spend your tenner on? - 11/25/2008 7:49:02 AM

meatcleaver

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The biggest laugh is, the people we expect to get us out of this mess will be the same people that got us into it. Don't take that as an endorsement for the tories, they would have done no different to Labour. What we are seeing is the result of an ideological failure begun by Thatcher and endorsed by Blair/Brown. The end of a vacuous materialist era (hopefully). The last materialist 30 years deserves to have a derisory 10 pound epitaph.

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Post #: 21

RE: so Brits - what to spend your tenner on? - 11/25/2008 4:11:29 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

Looks like the "free" national healthcare is going to cost someone. Tax rates for high earners could go to around 60% based on Telegraph article.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/budget/3513516/Pre-Budget-report-National-Insurance-rise-adds-to-high-earners-woes.html

And you think your taxes wont rise to pay back the $10 trillion national debt ? FYI just one percent of the taxpayers in the UK earn the sum you mention. All of them and their families are also entitled to use the NHS.

(in reply to corysub)

Post #: 22

RE: so Brits - what to spend your tenner on? - 11/25/2008 5:00:53 PM

Aneirin

Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline

Hey, whatever, shit happens, I am past caring what happens, as there is nothing I can do about anything aside from tick another box come election time. What people we have messing with our economy, they do what they do, because they can do. Some people of our country put them there, with the belief that they were the lesser of x evils, whatever, but the reality is, would the opposition done any better or worse if they were in power, never mind what they say now.

I think the best we can do, is look after our own, after all, that is what those in power do, take their example and look to our close family and friends, those we want around us, stuff everyone else, they are doing their own thing. After all, Britain is in reality a nation of individuals.

Sorry to be disheartened, but in reality, what can we do about it, except just do as we always do and manage the best we can, those in power are far from us and largely detached from the life we lead.

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 11/25/2008 5:06:15 PM >

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 23

RE: so Brits - what to spend your tenner on? - 11/25/2008 5:51:05 PM

susie

Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
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FR

You have to admit our darling Darling was pretty clever in all this. You can just hear the cogs spinning in his little brain when he came up with the VAT idea.
"I know, lets reduce the VAT down and all those silly people will think I have done something wonderful. Of course they won't notice that I am putting up fuel duty and alcohol duty to counteract what I am taking off on VAT! Yeah clever me!"

(in reply to Aneirin)

Post #: 24

RE: so Brits - what to spend your tenner on? - 11/25/2008 6:20:29 PM

MadAxeman

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I think most people will just turn their heating up half a degree.

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Post #: 25

RE: so Brits - what to spend your tenner on? - 11/25/2008 6:54:50 PM

ThundersCry

Posts: 892
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Noooooooooo stella! That does not count UNLESS...I get to be the judge of said pussy...

Send tickets...

(in reply to stella41b)

Post #: 26

RE: so Brits - what to spend your tenner on? - 11/25/2008 8:13:07 PM

ThundersCry

Posts: 892
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Of course it was a good idea Lady!

Now you know to listen very closely to...men....very

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 27

RE: so Brits - what to spend your tenner on? - 11/26/2008 1:48:28 AM

susie

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Joined: 11/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThundersCry

Of course it was a good idea Lady!

Now you know to listen very closely to...men....very

Geesh that's what got us all into the mess in the first place. Put the women in charge and we will sort it all out!!

(in reply to ThundersCry)

Post #: 28

RE: so Brits - what to spend your tenner on? - 11/26/2008 2:09:15 AM

Dargrim

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Thatcher started this mess a rolling..... wait was she a women or something else?

(in reply to susie)

Post #: 29

RE: so Brits - what to spend your tenner on? - 11/26/2008 2:53:56 AM

tweedydaddy

Posts: 673
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline

I would go to Italy tomorrow if it were not for the damn humidity.
My arthritis runs riot when I go to Venice or Calabria, even in the summer, which is a shame because I love it there.Business wise, Italy is doing fine, don't listen to all that "It's a lot worse over there" crap the politicians give you.
I have people I trade with over there who are making a bloody fortune.
The British Government is being run by a clique of former left wingers who, at heart, really don't understand business and have no aptitude for it.
I think the current purtian ethos is hardly going to help, lambasting people for enjoying the rewards of their own hard work by telling them not to go on holidays and buy new cars will do nothing for trade, and then taxing people to the ears for earning more than a bricklayer is hardly going to encourage either fast moving business people or high value talent to stay in blighty is it?
I'm emigrating to the US for a dry climate, though with my luck when I get there Las vegas will have turned into a swamp.
One thing I won't miss is the level of hypocrisy about income and the endless war being waged on the successful by a government frightened of winners.
Bring on Lord Snooty and his pals, and let's send this Scottish mafia home.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 30

RE: so Brits - what to spend your tenner on? - 11/26/2008 5:34:37 AM

RealityLicks

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Joined: 10/23/2007
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For general consumption -

Hmmm, what to spend a tenner on..? That's the wrong question. I think the VAT cut is a sound idea. If you had a warehouse full of 1000 sofas that you wanted to retail over Christmas and were looking at having to discount heavily just to shift them, you'd be grateful that the Gov had opted to share some of the burden. Suddenly, you don't need to let staff go just to balance the books and those staff can go out and spend with others, too. The retail sector is receiving invaluable help via this move.

The fact that the VAT cut is being partly financed by raised duty on fags and booze is just sound fiscal sense. Have you any idea what smokers and drinkers cost to look after when their bodies fall apart? It's poor people, without private health insurance, who suffer most when they overdo these pleasures. If they'd only fuck more and smoke less, they might be less inclined to bitch and moan so much.

PS - Tweedydady, I think you'll find that the IOD and CBI are big fans of Brown's and have enthusiastically backed all the fiscal stimulus actions. However strange it may seem, the business community are far happier with Labour policy than they are with the Bullingdon toffs and wanky eton rifles who want their jobs. The Tories are praying the economy will completely implode so that they'll get elected. Remember, this situation has never occurred before and like it or not most financial moves taken in response are being outlined here in the UK and then replicated right around the world. Why knock that?

(in reply to tweedydaddy)

Post #: 31

RE: so Brits - what to spend your tenner on? - 11/26/2008 6:18:27 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

The fact that the VAT cut is being partly financed by raised duty on fags and booze is just sound fiscal sense. Have you any idea what smokers and drinkers cost to look after when their bodies fall apart? It's poor people, without private health insurance, who suffer most when they overdo these pleasures. If they'd only fuck more and smoke less, they might be less inclined to bitch and moan so much.

Actually a study by the Dutch health service proved otherwise. People with healthy life styles use more medical resources than people with unhealthy lifes styles because unhealthy people tend to die suddenly where healthy people tend to linger, get older and use ever more resources. Apparently the study was really rather inconvenient for the government because the Dutch government wanted to use the findings in their campaign against smoking, saying it was justified because of the unacceptable financial burden placed on others. However, it was people with healthy lifes styles who ended up being an unjust burden on people with unhealthy life styles.

There is no reason to believe results would be different in other countries.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 11/26/2008 6:19:08 AM >

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Post #: 32

RE: so Brits - what to spend your tenner on? - 11/26/2008 6:21:14 AM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
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From: Savannah, GA
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woohoo! a reason to keep smoking!! *snort*

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RE: so Brits - what to spend your tenner on? - 11/26/2008 6:22:41 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

FR

You have to admit our darling Darling was pretty clever in all this. You can just hear the cogs spinning in his little brain when he came up with the VAT idea.
"I know, lets reduce the VAT down and all those silly people will think I have done something wonderful. Of course they won't notice that I am putting up fuel duty and alcohol duty to counteract what I am taking off on VAT! Yeah clever me!"

I was watching some political commentary on the BBC yesterday and they stated that it is pretty 'well known' that Darling and Brown had a bit of a falling out over this and that eventually Brown 'got his way'. So I wouldn't place this fiasco on Darling.

the.dark.

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Post #: 34

RE: so Brits - what to spend your tenner on? - 11/26/2008 6:24:48 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

woohoo! a reason to keep smoking!! *snort*

And drink!

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to GreedyTop)

Post #: 35

RE: so Brits - what to spend your tenner on? - 11/26/2008 6:26:55 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dargrim

Thatcher started this mess a rolling..... wait was she a women or something else?

Thats technically incorrect. Labour and the 'good times' where everthing was yummy is really the fall out of thatchers government. What we are going through now is Browns mess up. It takes time for it all to filter through, so you can blame the time when the pound was groovy during blairs watch on thatchers government and this current crisis on brown.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Post #: 36

RE: so Brits - what to spend your tenner on? - 11/26/2008 6:40:31 AM

Aneirin

Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline

All those that bleat and moan about smokers being a burden on the system, just have to remember, those that choose to smoke also pay more tax into the system by virtue of the high cost on tobbacco products.

Every time a government puts a few pence extra duty on tobbacco, it is do doing so grudgingly, as they wish not to stop the smokers smoking. If they were true in their values and desire to stop the smokers, they could easily do it by adding so much tax it would make the stuff massively uneconomical to most, if not all, or even just ban the supply of it, but if they lost the smokers, where next would they seek to tax , for they would need to get the money back somewhere. Smokers just happen to be the social pariah at the moment, who could they alienate next to meet their need.

The notion that smokers take more out of the system is largely a false notion, perhaps it is they in reality only take out what they have paid extra in, they by the higher taxes paid through their choice have paid for their care.

Perhaps even it is that poor people that smoke and drink are even higher tax payers than the squeaky clean, they often if they drive, drive uneconomical vehicles by the fact they can't afford the latest eco friendly fuel frugal offering for x manufacturer, they drive what they can afford to drive, pollute the enviroment but pay more tax

What is more important to a government, tax or the enviroment and people's health, surely, it must be a fine balance they maintain and what they spout must just be lies to con the populace into thinking they are doing the right thing.

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 11/26/2008 6:47:09 AM >

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 37

RE: so Brits - what to spend your tenner on? - 11/26/2008 6:41:39 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dargrim

Thatcher started this mess a rolling..... wait was she a women or something else?

Thats technically incorrect. Labour and the 'good times' where everthing was yummy is really the fall out of thatchers government. What we are going through now is Browns mess up. It takes time for it all to filter through, so you can blame the time when the pound was groovy during blairs watch on thatchers government and this current crisis on brown.

the.dark.

If Blair didn't promise to keep Thatcher's dereugulated Nirvana, he wouldn't have got elected so it was originally the people who voted for Thatcher and then those who later voted for Blair to blame because if hadn't promised to carry on Thatcher's looney policies to he maintain power, people would have kicked him out.

British voters got what they voted for, a government they deserved.

Though really, it would have been academic. America derugulated big time and Britain had to follow suit. Thatcher's government decided the financial sector was more important than the manufacturing sector so the Tories couldn't then really put the City of London at a competitive disadvantage by not dregulating, having sacrificed the manufacturing sector. They wouldn't have had an economy left.

As a economic refugee, I say a plague on all their houses.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 11/26/2008 7:35:45 AM >

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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Post #: 38

RE: so Brits - what to spend your tenner on? - 11/26/2008 6:52:16 AM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

woohoo! a reason to keep smoking!! *snort*

And drink!

WOOHOO!! *lights a fag and pours a beer*

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 39

RE: so Brits - what to spend your tenner on? - 11/26/2008 7:56:08 AM

RealityLicks

Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
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MC, I have no idea how the Dutch collect their figures or whether Dutch people smoke or drink less than they do here. I was talking about the rationale of moving the tax burden away from economic activity and onto areas which health professionals tell us we should prevent the young from gaining easy entry.

This thread is about tax, not the joyless slog of blaming the Govt. because of others' actions. I have no comment to make on either practice and indulge in both as they mood takes me. That said, there is no doubt that while they are alive drinkers and smokers slurp down and splutter out large amounts of NHS funds. But how many can afford the medical assistance that say, George Best got?

PS - I notice noone has any quarrel with the idea that fucking is better than smoking or boozing. If you had to give two up and keep one, which would you choose?

(in reply to GreedyTop)

Post #: 40

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