Citigroup bailout $20 billion, Dow up 891 pts (Full Version)

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Vendaval -> Citigroup bailout $20 billion, Dow up 891 pts (11/24/2008 2:24:28 PM)

On the one hand I am sick of bailouts for big companies.  On the other hand I am glad to see improvement in the stock market.  Here is to hoping that investors and consumers get some of their confidence back.

"Dow ends up nearly 400 after bailout of Citigroup"

By TIM PARADIS, AP Business Writer Tim Paradis, Ap Business Writer – 19 mins ago 
"NEW YORK – Wall Street barreled higher Monday for the second straight session, this time in a relief rally over the government's plan to bail out Citigroup Inc. — a move it hopes will help quiet some of the uncertainty hounding the financial sector and the overall economy. The Dow Jones industrials soared nearly 400 points and the major indexes all jumped more than 4.5 percent.

The surge gave the market its first two-day advance since Oct. 30-31 and the Dow's biggest two-day percentage gain since October 1987; the 891-point rise over the two sessions also wiped out an 872-point plunge over the course of Wednesday and Thursday. Although investors sensed late last week that a rescue of Citigroup was forthcoming, investors nonetheless were heartened, even emboldened, by the U.S. government's decision late Sunday to invest $20 billion in Citigroup and guarantee $306 billion in risky assets."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081124/ap_on_bi_st_ma_re/wall_street



celticlord2112 -> RE: Citigroup bailout $20 billion, Dow up 891 pts (11/24/2008 2:27:56 PM)

Confidence is what created this mess in the first place.

Bank CEOs were "confident" loans wouldn't go bad.

Homeowners were "confident" home values would continue to rise.

Wall Street was "confident" Congress would ride to the rescue (ok, they were right on that one).

Frankly, how about we see some healthy fear, trepidation, and some good old fashioned holy-shit-I-could-be-homeless sort of terror?



Vendaval -> RE: Citigroup bailout $20 billion, Dow up 891 pts (11/24/2008 2:30:11 PM)

I think there is a middle ground, CL.  Neither being foolishly over-confident and throwing money away along with good sense nor being so fear-ridden that we all go hide in caves and abandoned missle silos.



celticlord2112 -> RE: Citigroup bailout $20 billion, Dow up 891 pts (11/24/2008 2:32:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

I think there is a middle ground, CL.  Neither being foolishly over-confident and throwing money away along with good sense nor being so fear-ridden that we all go hide in caves and abandoned missle silos.

Oh, there is most assuredly a middle ground. I just happen to think that middle ground is a whole lot closer to real fear than most people are right now.



popeye1250 -> RE: Citigroup bailout $20 billion, Dow up 891 pts (11/24/2008 3:00:23 PM)

One thing is for sure, stocks are incredably cheap now!
They've been pounded into the ground for a long time.
Funny, when stocks are high no-one wants to sell, when stocks are low, no-one wants to buy!



Owner59 -> RE: Citigroup bailout $20 billion, Dow up 891 pts (11/24/2008 3:58:46 PM)

 
And guarantee another 300 billion in bad debt..

So,which one(s) of the Citigroup`s executives who really fucked up here, get`s the axe ?

I bet none.

Rewarding failure seems like the trend lately.

But hey,look at the bright side.We(the taxpayers) now own an interest in Citigroup.

Everybody wins.[8D]



UncleNasty -> RE: Citigroup bailout $20 billion, Dow up 891 pts (11/24/2008 4:57:53 PM)

This is the same bank that wanted to buy Wamu just a few weeks ago.

ABC News tossed out a current pricetag on the bailouts so far as $7.76 trillion. And the hits just keep on coming.

Uncle Nasty



pahunkboy -> RE: Citigroup bailout $20 billion, Dow up 891 pts (11/24/2008 5:01:52 PM)

so then, why after this the 12th 2008 bail out, who then really feels like making payments to a bank?????

at some point- this can only back fire.

the gold in the vault has already left the country.   people wont get mad- we probably will get a $20 gift card from the new obama plan...



Termyn8or -> RE: Citigroup bailout $20 billion, Dow up 891 pts (11/24/2008 9:21:33 PM)

Didn't Citi just borrow a whole lot of money off the Chinese a bit less than a year ago ?

T



UncleNasty -> RE: Citigroup bailout $20 billion, Dow up 891 pts (11/24/2008 9:54:18 PM)

About two weeks ago they pledged to reach out and modify 500,000 loans. A week later they announced layoffs of 53,000 employees. I expect these were the ones that were going to do all that reaching out.

The turn around seems to be getting consistently shorter. The lesson seems to be that about a week after they announce something positive reality sets in and it's Katey Bar the Door!

Goldman did about the same thing.

One handed Uncle Nasty



variation30 -> RE: Citigroup bailout $20 billion, Dow up 891 pts (11/24/2008 10:01:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

On the one hand I am sick of bailouts for big companies.  On the other hand I am glad to see improvement in the stock market.  Here is to hoping that investors and consumers get some of their confidence back.

"Dow ends up nearly 400 after bailout of Citigroup"

By TIM PARADIS, AP Business Writer Tim Paradis, Ap Business Writer – 19 mins ago 
"NEW YORK – Wall Street barreled higher Monday for the second straight session, this time in a relief rally over the government's plan to bail out Citigroup Inc. — a move it hopes will help quiet some of the uncertainty hounding the financial sector and the overall economy. The Dow Jones industrials soared nearly 400 points and the major indexes all jumped more than 4.5 percent.

The surge gave the market its first two-day advance since Oct. 30-31 and the Dow's biggest two-day percentage gain since October 1987; the 891-point rise over the two sessions also wiped out an 872-point plunge over the course of Wednesday and Thursday. Although investors sensed late last week that a rescue of Citigroup was forthcoming, investors nonetheless were heartened, even emboldened, by the U.S. government's decision late Sunday to invest $20 billion in Citigroup and guarantee $306 billion in risky assets."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081124/ap_on_bi_st_ma_re/wall_street


fun fact. the federal government bailed out aig/citibank...but they still hadn't dropped their sports team sponsorships (paying sports teams to wear their name on their jerseys and nascar cars...).

and yeah, this improvement in the stock market doesn't mean much. the problem is still being perpetuated. things will get worse.



variation30 -> RE: Citigroup bailout $20 billion, Dow up 891 pts (11/24/2008 10:08:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

One thing is for sure, stocks are incredably cheap now!
They've been pounded into the ground for a long time.
Funny, when stocks are high no-one wants to sell, when stocks are low, no-one wants to buy!



yeah. I wouldn't put much faith in stocks as I think they will get worse. if you want to make money, put some cash on companies you think will be getting bailouts and sell them when they go up a few points. for the love of god, don't hold on to them. Take a look at AIG in mid-Sept if you want to see what the bailouts are going to do. stock prices will go up as companies have more assets (though our economic overlords in washington seem to just love overlooking the broken window fallcy), investors will be willing to spend more on the stock...then it'll sink right back down to where it was (rather quickly). just know when to get out.

but yeah, I didn't hear anything about citigroup getting a bailout...I should listen to the news more.



Owner59 -> RE: Citigroup bailout $20 billion, Dow up 891 pts (11/24/2008 10:09:05 PM)

"and yeah, this improvement in the stock market doesn't mean much.  "

Could you c-mail me off list with some stock tips?

No one else anywhere seems to know anything about the stock market........



ladyserenablue -> RE: Citigroup bailout $20 billion, Dow up 891 pts (11/24/2008 10:11:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Didn't Citi just borrow a whole lot of money off the Chinese a bit less than a year ago ?

T


Now you know why China owns 10% of the US debt.



variation30 -> RE: Citigroup bailout $20 billion, Dow up 891 pts (11/24/2008 10:18:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

"and yeah, this improvement in the stock market doesn't mean much.  "

Could you c-mail me off list with some stock tips?

No one else anywhere seems to know anything about the stock market........


if I had money, I'd buy futures.

since I don't, I'll keep it in gold.



variation30 -> RE: Citigroup bailout $20 billion, Dow up 891 pts (11/24/2008 10:30:33 PM)

also, falling stocks does not mean money is lost. it's just transferred out of stocks and investments and into another corner of the market. people prefer holding onto cash (or putting their cash into other goods) than holding onto little slices of some company. 



servantforuse -> RE: Citigroup bailout $20 billion, Dow up 891 pts (11/24/2008 11:05:37 PM)

For the average invester it's all paper. In 10 years it will still make money. You only lose money when you panic and sell at the bottom,which many are doing right now.. 



TheUtopian -> RE: Citigroup bailout $20 billion, Dow up 891 pts (11/25/2008 1:51:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

On the one hand I am sick of bailouts for big companies.  On the other hand I am glad to see improvement in the stock market.  Here is to hoping that investors and consumers get some of their confidence back.

"Dow ends up nearly 400 after bailout of Citigroup"

By TIM PARADIS, AP Business Writer Tim Paradis, Ap Business Writer – 19 mins ago 
"NEW YORK – Wall Street barreled higher Monday for the second straight session, this time in a relief rally over the government's plan to bail out Citigroup Inc. — a move it hopes will help quiet some of the uncertainty hounding the financial sector and the overall economy. The Dow Jones industrials soared nearly 400 points and the major indexes all jumped more than 4.5 percent.

The surge gave the market its first two-day advance since Oct. 30-31 and the Dow's biggest two-day percentage gain since October 1987; the 891-point rise over the two sessions also wiped out an 872-point plunge over the course of Wednesday and Thursday. Although investors sensed late last week that a rescue of Citigroup was forthcoming, investors nonetheless were heartened, even emboldened, by the U.S. government's decision late Sunday to invest $20 billion in Citigroup and guarantee $306 billion in risky assets."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081124/ap_on_bi_st_ma_re/wall_street





Heh.....This is the one sure way you can see that we're doomed as a society as long as the Wall Street/ The financier mentality--democrat or republican-- is allowed to maintain control over the direction/decision-making process.

Basically what Paulson/The treasury is saying  - We're only going to bail out parasites. In other words, if you produce food, clothing, shelter, automobiles, machine tools, etc, i.e. anything humanity needs to survive, you can go sit in a corner and put a gun in your mouth.

But then on the other hand he tells us - If you have toxic derivatives, structured investment vehicles, collateralized debt obligations, credit default swaps, etc, i.e. anything parasitical, come right over here son, let me put my arm around you, we'll take good care of you.....

Any part of the economy that's production based - We'll leave you to the full fury of the free market.

Any part of the economy that's parisitical in nature - We'll throw a warm blanket over you, rub your feet, and go get ya milk and cookies....[;)]






- R



LadyEllen -> RE: Citigroup bailout $20 billion, Dow up 891 pts (11/25/2008 4:57:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheUtopian

Heh.....This is the one sure way you can see that we're doomed as a society as long as the Wall Street/ The financier mentality--democrat or republican-- is allowed to maintain control over the direction/decision-making process.

Basically what Paulson/The treasury is saying  - We're only going to bail out parasites. In other words, if you produce food, clothing, shelter, automobiles, machine tools, etc, i.e. anything humanity needs to survive, you can go sit in a corner and put a gun in your mouth.

But then on the other hand he tells us - If you have toxic derivatives, structured investment vehicles, collateralized debt obligations, credit default swaps, etc, i.e. anything parasitical, come right over here son, let me put my arm around you, we'll take good care of you.....

Any part of the economy that's production based - We'll leave you to the full fury of the free market.

Any part of the economy that's parisitical in nature - We'll throw a warm blanket over you, rub your feet, and go get ya milk and cookies....[;)]

- R


There's a fascinating series running on UK Channel4 at the moment "The Ascent Of Money" (should be available on download). Last night's programme (part 2)was about the bond market.

I'll admit I didnt follow it in detail, but it seemed to explain very well indeed why all this fuss over the "financial services industry" - if it collapses, then so do the bonds which governments rely on and before long the entire economy goes down the toilet because the country itself against which the bond was issued is worthless.

The stress of the message was that it is bond traders who run a country - governments must above all act to preserve the value of their bonds and do nothing to jeopardise that value by making bond traders nervous.

What I took from it was what I've always felt - that the City Of London and Wall Street rule our respective countries and all we get is a choice over the party colour of their representatives to us. Democracy is then an illusion and we are naught but the slaves of the wealthy in that our fates are out of our hands and we might be beaten on any premise or none depending on what the mood of the masters might be.

E



pahunkboy -> RE: Citigroup bailout $20 billion, Dow up 891 pts (11/25/2008 6:33:53 AM)

in a strange twist to the mess,   citi is US bank now battling EU bank for survival.  so shark eat shark.

larouches nov weekly update mentioned that.   you see the system can NOT BE SAVED.  would you like to tell you there is a santa clauss and dancing fairies?

by now you should have some precious metals on your person.   jewery is fine.   (I am behind on this)    we now shift into buying cases of food for your home. the time to set policy has passed, the house of cards is going down.

you best size up what food you want and start piling it up.   the dollar will be worth 10 cents on the dollar.   (see precious metals)

food storage creates its own issues.   I hate canned stuff but i guess i must spend a bunch to...eat



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