RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (Full Version)

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FullfigRIMAAM1 -> RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (11/30/2008 6:27:56 PM)

quote:

I pretty much agree with all that, as for 2) that is why I am absolutely for safewords we all hope we won't need them but like an airbag they are there to avoid injuries.

3) Slowly and again with safewords
I don't much care for safewords...  Not so much because I don't want the flow to be interfered with; more because of the fact that I have dated and gone far enough for a couple of grown adult men to completely lose their bearings and behave like uhms who are too young to speak up or protect themselves.  The first time, I didn't recognize deep subspace at all, and thought he was having a heart attack and became disoriented, until he went to the most peaceful sleep I've ever seen for about 10minutes, while I watched him closely.  
So, while safewords are possibly good to have, they aren't for me a way to keep anyone safe if I myself were not to recognize I've gone far enough and need to stop before harming him.   

quote:

undergroundsea
versus a forceful "stop it!"
I don't like forceful conversation from anyone, but especially a submissive of mine.    It would completely take me out of my mindzone, and lead to more serious discussions of aggressive vs respectul/even assertive approach with tact.    M



GigglingGoddess -> RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (11/30/2008 8:45:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GigglingGoddess
But like you said, Akasha, that's not a good place to be pushing limits.


Oopsies, just realized it wasn't Akasha who said this. Apologies for putting words in people's mouths [:o] Now I'm not sure who said it, or if anyone said it, but I'll stick with the assertion that casual play is not a good place for pushing limits. Just not enough trust built up. It seems we agree that negotiating limits requires a lot of trust, care, thought, and conversation.  I'm enjoying everyone's posts thus far!



undergroundsea -> RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (12/1/2008 2:08:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GigglingGoddess
I don't think safewords or slow-down words indicate that a relationship isn't intimate enough, nor do I think they constitute excessive protocol.  My boyfriend and I are keenly aware of each other's


I agree with you.

In some companies, designers use the red, yellow, green convention to describe a feature set for a new product being proposed. A green feature is a must-have feature, a yellow feature is a desired feature but one that could be dropped if schedule or resource constraints became an issue, and a red feature is one that was initially proposed but has been consciously eliminated from the feature set.

This red, yellow, green convention is a communication tool that helps quickly convey information about a feature.

Similarly, safewords (I favor the red, yellow, green convention for its universal and intuitive meaning) are communication tools within BDSM that help convey an idea quickly with one word.

Cheers,

Sea



MsStarlett -> RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (12/1/2008 3:55:30 AM)

Tricky things... pushing limits... Especially when you make a 'play date' with someone who lists themselves as a "No Limit, No Safe word Slave" - the you find out differently.



PeonForHer -> RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (12/1/2008 4:52:14 AM)

I don't much care for safewords...  Not so much because I don't want the flow to be interfered with; more because of the fact that I have dated and gone far enough for a couple of grown adult men to completely lose their bearings and behave like uhms who are too young to speak up or protect themselves.  The first time, I didn't recognize deep subspace at all, and thought he was having a heart attack and became disoriented, until he went to the most peaceful sleep I've ever seen for about 10minutes, while I watched him closely.  

So, while safewords are possibly good to have, they aren't for me a way to keep anyone safe if I myself were not to recognize I've gone far enough and need to stop before harming him.   

I think that clinches it for me, FFRIM - I wouldn't recognise that level of subspace in myself, either!  

Pretty clearly, you and your sub have some degree of experience behind you.  I don't.  As Akasha points out, safewords can be unhelpful and even counterproductive - and I'd be more than reluctant to destroy a dominant's mindzone in the way you say, of course.  That would be miserable.

Granted, the bulk of this is about good communication between D/s partners built up over time.  I think the reason I'd absolutely need safewords, though, is because of the way I'd act and sound during a session.  It could be alarming even to me, let alone the dominant. 



FullfigRIMAAM1 -> RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (12/1/2008 6:58:54 AM)

quote:

I think that clinches it for me, FFRIM - I wouldn't recognise that level of subspace in myself, either!
I think a good number of people don't.   The first gentleman I had this happen with was experienced.   I was very new, and feeling my way through, oh hell, still am, but with a lot more awareness.   I don't play casually, so communication and finding our emotional and physical comfort zones is always a work in progress for me/us, when in a relationship.   From reading your posts, it would seem to me you would have a fairly good feel for the sensibility and sensitivity of anyone you became involved with, or chose to play with casually.   My belief is that utilizing your instincts in choosing the right play partner will be a lot more useful in keeping you safe than safewords.

quote:

Pretty clearly, you and your sub have some degree of experience behind you.  I don't.  As Akasha points out, safewords can be unhelpful and even counterproductive - and I'd be more than reluctant to destroy a dominant's mindzone in the way you say, of course.  That would be miserable.
Your safety is more important than anyone's comfort zone.   So, while it is nice to have one who submits, that should never be the reason you allow anyone to harm you.   If your body were telling you something is not right, or you felt uncomfortable about her (generic her) judgement, or for any reason, felt she may go too far, you should always stop it (preferably) gently by request or safeword. 
When I've been with one who was very willing to let me experiment on him, I never gagged him when there was real harm possibility, and always encouraged feedback when things felt abnormally uncomfortable.    M



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