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RE: Bed & Dungeon hotel in USA???? - 11/29/2008 1:58:00 PM   
khalya


Posts: 50
Joined: 11/25/2008
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I believe ShanShin closed:( Are there any fun festivals that people know of? I went to Starwood this summer, and there was a bdsm event there, and I would to experience more things like that...I know it isn't a bed a breakfast question but I thought I would ask!!!

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Bed & Dungeon hotel in USA???? - 11/29/2008 3:56:37 PM   
XstilettosX


Posts: 36
Joined: 3/3/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: khalya

I believe ShanShin closed:( Are there any fun festivals that people know of? I went to Starwood this summer, and there was a bdsm event there, and I would to experience more things like that...I know it isn't a bed a breakfast question but I thought I would ask!!!

This event list is pretty good.:
http://www.thebdsmeventspage.com/events.html
Only advice I can offer is that the Boston summer flea market isn't worth a lot of effort to attend.

(in reply to khalya)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Bed & Dungeon hotel in USA???? - 11/30/2008 12:33:44 AM   
Coupleofwhats


Posts: 280
Joined: 6/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UmbraDomina

the only one I know of is in NY. http://www.ladomaine.com/


Took the words out of my mouth!
I'd add my personal recommendation: the Master and Lady of the house are amazing players and hosts.

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Bed & Dungeon hotel in USA???? - 11/30/2008 8:25:06 AM   
KevinS


Posts: 24
Joined: 12/18/2004
Status: offline
So, there's a reason, as was pointed out by someone, that you hear of all these places going out of business, is the same reason many small businesses built around a personal passion don't succeed.  People focus on the what & the why they want to be in business, not the how, and fail to realize they have to run a business which creates profit. 

I've run several successful BDSM businesses, including EternityCollars which I sold not long ago, and I helped run a BDSM B&B in San Francisco, including living as the on-site manager for the last 2yrs it was in business.
Since what I do now is run businesses and help them generate revenue, I'll speak to this briefly, if I might.
Some free consulting for you.

I believe the basic business model of a BDSM themed B&B is very very difficult, to the point of being flawed, possibly unachievable, as a stand-alone business.

B&B's to begin with are tough work.  Is usually 1-3 people, maybe a couple, and you have to get your name out there and recognized (advertising = cost), and then you spend the bulk of your day cleaning, which very few people think of when they think of running a place.  Hotels/B&B's vend a good (a room for the night) with a constant expense and a variable price, which loses its intrinsic value if not sold; if you don't have a paying guest in a room for any given night, the value of that room is gone but the expense underneath it still occurs, so a straight loss to your books.  So the overriding business pressures for a hospitality business are containing costs and increasing % occupancy rate flow to generate revenue.

So you start with that to begin with.  Then, you're opening a business that only focuses on a small subset of people (BDSM folks), and a theme that is likely to not simply be neutral, but negative to those not into it; if you open a duck-themed B&B and I'm not all that into ducks, probably wouldn't bug me that much to stay there.  Not quite the same thing, running a dungeon hotel.  So you cut out, let's be generous and say 85% of the population who might stay at your B&B right off the bat.  Now you're trying to hit occupancy rates against a population subset while alienating the others.

Your target audience is also liekly to be one-time or infrequent guests.  If you set up a B&B near a college, you might get parents who stay often when they visit, or a business-friendly property near an airport or industrial area, where you'd have reliable, repeat business.  People coming to some remote area to live out a dungeon weekend aren't likely coming a few times a year.

Advertising is difficult, depending on your area.  Lot of places might not take your ads, or might call into question your legitimacy as a business.  Might get religious groups or women's rights places fucking with you; running such a place in some places could easily constitute illegal activity - it certainly is in California, for example.  Probably have to incorporate some cost measures for pre-paid legal, maybe even write into your biz plan some vandalism issues.  Don;t forget zoning and licensing, for a cost also. The "community" can help spread things by word-of-mouth, but word of mouth is tough, particularly if your B&B is in a remote place.

So you've got predictably low occupancy rates, infrequent repeat business, plus the additional cost investment of start-up costs, legal, licensing, buying some decent BDSM toys & equipment (pretty minimal, really, against the other costs), so, you'll need to charge a premium for your good/service.  But you've targeted a group of people who, well the public scene in particular, are not necessarily folks of substantial financial means.
Note: we can argue this all day long, but until I stop seeing ads for munches and parties with caveats of "no one turned away for lack of funds" and threads about people not being able to afford the gas to get to events, I'll stick by this.

Many of these businesses then look for how else to generate revenue, thus diluting their value proposition.  Do you throw dungeon parties for a fee?  Do you allow female Pro Doms to use your facilities?  Do you try to market it for photo shoots or movies?  All of these things, again, may dilute your core business value or reduce your audience, and all of them all may carry some legal issues (how are you licensed, what is legal in your area) as well as all carrying strong risk of further raising your profile in the local business community, and likely not in a positive way.


High start-up costs, restricted customer base with low opportunity for repeat revenue, high potential for community backlash, and a good that cuts straight loss into your books = a pretty nasty starting point for a business.
The only people I have seen successful with this, the ONLY people, are people who ran something like this as a side gig, not for a living or to make a profit.  I remain convinced it may not be possible to be successful running one as a traditional business.


_____________________________

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If he happens to be wealthy and psychotic, then this poses less problems than it would for most people."
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(in reply to Coupleofwhats)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Bed & Dungeon hotel in USA???? - 11/30/2008 10:30:37 PM   
XstilettosX


Posts: 36
Joined: 3/3/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KevinS

So, there's a reason, as was pointed out by someone, that you hear of all these places going out of business, is the same reason many small businesses built around a personal passion don't succeed.  People focus on the what & the why they want to be in business, not the how, and fail to realize they have to run a business which creates profit. 

I've run several successful BDSM businesses, including EternityCollars which I sold not long ago, and I helped run a BDSM B&B in San Francisco, including living as the on-site manager for the last 2yrs it was in business.
Since what I do now is run businesses and help them generate revenue, I'll speak to this briefly, if I might.
Some free consulting for you.

I believe the basic business model of a BDSM themed B&B is very very difficult, to the point of being flawed, possibly unachievable, as a stand-alone business.

B&B's to begin with are tough work.  Is usually 1-3 people, maybe a couple, and you have to get your name out there and recognized (advertising = cost), and then you spend the bulk of your day cleaning, which very few people think of when they think of running a place.  Hotels/B&B's vend a good (a room for the night) with a constant expense and a variable price, which loses its intrinsic value if not sold; if you don't have a paying guest in a room for any given night, the value of that room is gone but the expense underneath it still occurs, so a straight loss to your books.  So the overriding business pressures for a hospitality business are containing costs and increasing % occupancy rate flow to generate revenue.

So you start with that to begin with.  Then, you're opening a business that only focuses on a small subset of people (BDSM folks), and a theme that is likely to not simply be neutral, but negative to those not into it; if you open a duck-themed B&B and I'm not all that into ducks, probably wouldn't bug me that much to stay there.  Not quite the same thing, running a dungeon hotel.  So you cut out, let's be generous and say 85% of the population who might stay at your B&B right off the bat.  Now you're trying to hit occupancy rates against a population subset while alienating the others.

Your target audience is also liekly to be one-time or infrequent guests.  If you set up a B&B near a college, you might get parents who stay often when they visit, or a business-friendly property near an airport or industrial area, where you'd have reliable, repeat business.  People coming to some remote area to live out a dungeon weekend aren't likely coming a few times a year.

Advertising is difficult, depending on your area.  Lot of places might not take your ads, or might call into question your legitimacy as a business.  Might get religious groups or women's rights places fucking with you; running such a place in some places could easily constitute illegal activity - it certainly is in California, for example.  Probably have to incorporate some cost measures for pre-paid legal, maybe even write into your biz plan some vandalism issues.  Don;t forget zoning and licensing, for a cost also. The "community" can help spread things by word-of-mouth, but word of mouth is tough, particularly if your B&B is in a remote place.

So you've got predictably low occupancy rates, infrequent repeat business, plus the additional cost investment of start-up costs, legal, licensing, buying some decent BDSM toys & equipment (pretty minimal, really, against the other costs), so, you'll need to charge a premium for your good/service.  But you've targeted a group of people who, well the public scene in particular, are not necessarily folks of substantial financial means.
Note: we can argue this all day long, but until I stop seeing ads for munches and parties with caveats of "no one turned away for lack of funds" and threads about people not being able to afford the gas to get to events, I'll stick by this.

Many of these businesses then look for how else to generate revenue, thus diluting their value proposition.  Do you throw dungeon parties for a fee?  Do you allow female Pro Doms to use your facilities?  Do you try to market it for photo shoots or movies?  All of these things, again, may dilute your core business value or reduce your audience, and all of them all may carry some legal issues (how are you licensed, what is legal in your area) as well as all carrying strong risk of further raising your profile in the local business community, and likely not in a positive way.


High start-up costs, restricted customer base with low opportunity for repeat revenue, high potential for community backlash, and a good that cuts straight loss into your books = a pretty nasty starting point for a business.
The only people I have seen successful with this, the ONLY people, are people who ran something like this as a side gig, not for a living or to make a profit.  I remain convinced it may not be possible to be successful running one as a traditional business.


Thanks for the input.I'm not sure if you read into the reason why the B&B's closed.Most of them are because the couples running them broke up.They probably weren't in it for the money.

(in reply to KevinS)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Bed & Dungeon hotel in USA???? - 12/12/2008 5:38:27 PM   
MsFlutter


Posts: 1305
Joined: 11/12/2008
From: East Coast
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: XstilettosX

I've noticed Canada and other countries have bed & dungeon hotels.I think this idea is really cool.Does anyone know of any located in the USA?What states would this be legal in?Here's an example I found in Canada: http://www.warmbuns.ca/


Check the profile for marcicram. I noticed in the banners because it mentioned a BDSM B&B. May have potential for you  

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(in reply to XstilettosX)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Bed & Dungeon hotel in USA???? - 12/12/2008 9:42:33 PM   
CatdeMedici


Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline
There is one located on the outerbanks of North Carolina just at the start of the beaches.

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(in reply to XstilettosX)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Bed & Dungeon hotel in USA???? - 1/25/2009 3:40:16 AM   
lm1jr


Posts: 2
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
A very nice bed and breakfast that is extremely well known for it's b&d play is the redroseinn in NE Pa. see web site the redroseinn.com

(in reply to jackriddle)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Bed & Dungeon hotel in USA???? - 1/25/2009 8:13:30 AM   
pompeii


Posts: 934
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Silicon Valley, San Jose, California
Status: offline
Like it has been said, it has recently been a fantasy of mine too, to open up a Bed & Dungeon in the Santa Cruz mountains of California.

Seems to me, we would need to keep it safe, involved, and legal.

Dunno what that means but for starters, I'd guess that would mean no money for sex only, so any money is for something else even if sex is involved in addition to that something else.

Not sure how to define sex though ... but money for movies or pictures with sex involved is fine, for example ... such is the idiocy of USA laws.

Wouldn't that be a dream "club" ... a B&BDSM chateau up in the mountains!

(in reply to lm1jr)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Bed & Dungeon hotel in USA???? - 1/25/2009 5:23:54 PM   
MasterLark


Posts: 249
Joined: 5/12/2005
Status: offline
KevinS, you've made a compelling business case for not opening a BDSM B&B which seems to make alot of sense,

THEREFORE...perhaps you have thoughts on alternatives, such as well maintained but remote cabins in forests that are rented out or private cottages in accessible locations that would work, if the BDSM couple were discrete.

Anyone, have suggestions?

< Message edited by MasterLark -- 1/25/2009 5:24:13 PM >

(in reply to KevinS)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Bed & Dungeon hotel in USA???? - 1/27/2009 9:22:12 AM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lm1jr

A very nice bed and breakfast that is extremely well known for it's b&d play is the redroseinn in NE Pa. see web site the redroseinn.com



I just tried that link, and it doesn't work.

After searching the web, I came up with this:
theredroseinn.com
However, there's nothing BDSM-related on the site.



< Message edited by hardbodysub -- 1/27/2009 9:26:38 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Bed & Dungeon hotel in USA???? - 1/27/2009 9:13:22 PM   
maiden1971


Posts: 12
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline
I was able to locate the link for the red rose inn in PA.  I  must say that it looks lovely.

http://www.theredroseinn.com/

(in reply to hardbodysub)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Bed & Dungeon hotel in USA???? - 1/28/2009 3:04:29 PM   
slavedoggieboy


Posts: 13
Joined: 7/4/2007
Status: offline
There is a bed and breakfast in Scranton Pa, run by Vendela Zane. If you google her or google the whipgirl you should find her. She has a dungeon there also.

slavedoggieboy

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Bed & Dungeon hotel in USA???? - 1/28/2009 5:02:50 PM   
MistressXahDee


Posts: 43
Joined: 4/29/2008
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline


Here is the link for one in sunny California :) http://www.lastayandplay.com/stay.html

< Message edited by MistressXahDee -- 1/28/2009 5:05:26 PM >

(in reply to Madame4a)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Bed & Dungeon hotel in USA???? - 1/28/2009 8:45:27 PM   
roughleather


Posts: 232
Joined: 11/11/2004
Status: offline
All those places have appallingly ugly web sites. 

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Bed & Dungeon hotel in USA???? - 1/29/2009 9:09:13 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline
Hmmm, there was talk of one in Columbus, Mississippi last year on the MSAlt yahoo group.  But I haven't heard anything about how it went shifting from a nilla B&B to one that catered to kinksters.

Stefan

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Bed & Dungeon hotel in USA???? - 1/31/2009 1:21:56 PM   
ElectraGlide


Posts: 1246
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: Maryland
Status: offline
There was alot of safety concern about House Toys here. The house toys were normally left behind by previous guest, they look cool hanging on the wall. If you had to use them, a antiseptic wipe would clean a paddle off fine. The insert able devices such as a Sybian, has its own condoms, for safety. It is always house rules to clean off play stations after use, but it is a good idea to wipe them down before use also, just to make sure.

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Bed & Dungeon hotel in USA???? - 1/31/2009 5:50:49 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline
And that is why you shouldn't hold off on doing things you'd really like to do, for to long. Because one day when you finally decided to do it, you'll find they're gone.
quote:

ORIGINAL: peppermint

There was a Bed and Breakfast with dungeon in Seattle.  However, I looked for their web site and it's appears to no longer be active.  I did hear that one of the people who owned it passed away a few years ago.  Perhaps the other partner closed it down.  Anyway..it was called the Gypsy Arms and was a business for several years.  Sad...I really hoped to go there one day.  

(in reply to peppermint)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Bed & Dungeon hotel in USA???? - 1/31/2009 7:45:55 PM   
tnmountaindom


Posts: 4
Joined: 7/20/2008
Status: offline
Go to 1763 in Atlanta.  They have 4 private rooms that can be rented under the heading "bed and Bondage" rooms.  the 2 large rooms have jail cells built into the walls.  Renting overnight also allows you access to playtime in the private dungeon.  It is really a great place and Ms. Whip is wonderful

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Profile   Post #: 59
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