RE: Iran says it now runs more than 5,000 centrifuges

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RE: Iran says it now runs more than 5,000 centrifuges - 11/26/2008 8:22:10 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

could not the same stimulation occur by attending to the appalling state of our nations infrastructue....and avoid the attending bloodletting a war would entail.

Building roads and bridges would have stimulative effect. Moreso than war? Depends on both the size of the war and the size of the infrastructure investment.

Interestingly enough, it's not at all certain that a crash program of infrastructure investment would produce that much less bloodletting. There were 102 fatalities at road construction sites in 2002; road construction fatalities account for 1.5-2% of all workplace fatalities per year. A crash program of road and bridge building would likely produce more fatalities--how much more is, of course, indeterminate (the increase could be linear, geometric, exponential, or logarithmic, and I don't know of any data that would lend itself to an hypothesis as to which). By comparison, the largest number of military deaths in Iraq in any single year was 904 (in 2007).

Essentially, in order to establish an intrinsic superiority of one path over another, a different criterion besides "economic stimulus" is required.

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RE: Iran says it now runs more than 5,000 centrifuges - 11/26/2008 8:25:01 PM

celticlord2112

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Diplomatic pressure and international condemnation and isolation could at the same time bring Iran's nuclear ambitions to heel.

Unlikely. It hasn't even slowed them down so far.

Diplomatic pressure presumes the nation being pressured actually gives a damn what you think. Take that presumption off the table and the notion of "diplomatic pressure" becomes patently absurd.

Iran is an excellent example of this.

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RE: Iran says it now runs more than 5,000 centrifuges - 11/26/2008 8:38:01 PM

slvemike4u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Diplomatic pressure and international condemnation and isolation could at the same time bring Iran's nuclear ambitions to heel.

Unlikely. It hasn't even slowed them down so far.

Diplomatic pressure presumes the nation being pressured actually gives a damn what you think. Take that presumption off the table and the notion of "diplomatic pressure" becomes patently absurd.

Iran is an excellent example of this.

Let me get this straight,you used the phrase "patenly absurd"one post after making a case for constuction and road work deaths on a par with the bloodletting of war...Please make a case now for the attending PTSD that can occur while pouring cement.
P.S I apologise for the duplicate post's asserting similiar points,I didn't think the first one had went thru duplicated it approximately and viola double post's...sorry.

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RE: Iran says it now runs more than 5,000 centrifuges - 11/26/2008 8:42:10 PM

celticlord2112

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Please make a case now for the attending PTSD that can occur while pouring cement.

Ever see someone get his legs pinned by a couple tons of steel dropped from a crane?

Ever see someone get their head run over by a bus?

Case made.

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RE: Iran says it now runs more than 5,000 centrifuges - 11/26/2008 8:43:41 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

making a case for constuction and road work deaths on a par with the bloodletting of war...

Can you make a case that the dead construction worker is any less dead than the dead soldier?

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RE: Iran says it now runs more than 5,000 centrifuges - 11/26/2008 8:52:27 PM

slvemike4u

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Please CL we all know dead is dead.The horrors of war hardly are on a par with going off to the construction site.This Country is as we speak failing those that are coming home from our current conflicts with severe injuries both physical and mental.I hardly think we need to add to that burden by engaging in another war in an effort to ramp up a sagging econmy.

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RE: Iran says it now runs more than 5,000 centrifuges - 11/26/2008 9:21:45 PM

celticlord2112

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I hardly think we need to add to that burden by engaging in another war in an effort to ramp up a sagging econmy.

Again, as I stated before, if you want to argue one path is intrinsically superior to the other, you have to apply a different criterion besides "economic stimulus".

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RE: Iran says it now runs more than 5,000 centrifuges - 11/26/2008 9:30:53 PM

corysub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

And who will we send to this war? With what materiel? The Army and Marines are thorougly beaten up from the number of deployments, and the materiel's in even worse shape.

Same people we sent to WWII--the unemployed. Materiel....a nice popular war would go a long way towards rehabilitating Detroit, don't you think (as well as the Rust Belt states of Pennsylvania and Ohio)?

Wars are great for economic stimulus. That much is historical fact.

Actually, you are quite correct. FDR's so called "New Deal" saw unemployment soar to over 20% and good old WW2 got us out of the seven year depression, mostly because of government ineptness. "Lets rock and roll"...

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RE: Iran says it now runs more than 5,000 centrifuges - 11/26/2008 11:16:22 PM

rexrgisformidoni

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I vote we leave Iran the hell alone. We let the fucking genie out of the bottle, so before we shake our fingers about other countries having them, lets get rid of ours, or at least 95%. Whats left is more than enough to deter anyone with serious thought of starting something nuclear with us. As to war with Iran, again, leave them be. Do we really need to topple another large middle eastern country who stays in its own borders? Its support of hezbollah and diminished in recent years, and their are moderates in both the clergy and civilian leadership who truly want to open a line of communication with the US and the rest of the world. Ahemnijad won't live forever, and he was elected in for the most part in a fair election. He can be voted out. Even if they do make a bomb and detonate one, they have nifty ways of finding out where and who made the enriched uranium. They know this. We know this.

Starting a war to jump start the economy is an idiotic way to make things better right now. And I have no problem with war believe me. It just has a time and place, and this isnt it. We need to really concentrate on rebuilding our own country, the whole damn thing. We need new research in materials, energy, human development, community dynamics, education, etc. We need a real damn space program, a real space station, and a real damn effort to head to mars. Give us something to be proud of like my dad was proud of the apollo program. So yeah. We need better schools and universities. We need to end the cycle of welfare and handouts for do nothings. We need to truly combat crime in our cities and our entire country. End the pointless war on marijuana and use the tax money from that to fund a war against meth and other hard drugs. Use it fund a war against gangs like MS13. We need to grow our own food again and produce our own goods. Make trade truly fair. reform the tax system. I can think of a million things to be fixed. I can think of a million solutions.

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RE: Iran says it now runs more than 5,000 centrifuges - 11/27/2008 12:47:17 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

They've worked so well so far, with two ongoing wars bringing us to the heights of economic prosperity we enjoy today!

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=us&v=67

The financial sector imploded because of its own stupidity, and the housing bubble was a train wreck everyone should have seen coming, but beyond those two negatives, the U.S. economy has posted steady, measurable, growth since 2000.

That WWII ended the Great Depression is historical fact, supported by nearly every economic indicator--unemployment in particular.

That Vietnam overheated the economy, as LBJ monetized the costs thereof (including privatizing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to help pay the piper), is also well documented.

Much of President Reagan's spending went to the defense budget.

Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait in large part because he needed to pay and keep busy his large army left over from his indecisive war with Iran.

Adolf Hitler's buildup of the Wehrmacht contributed substantially towards the economic revitalization of Germany after the disaster of the Wiemar Republic.

Japanese expansionism and militarism was a driving force in their economy prior to WWII.

Losing a war is economically disastrous--as Germany and Japan discovered after WWII, but there is no denying that war and the logistics thereof expand a nation's economic output.

America was the only country to come out of WWII with a thriving economy because America was mainly an unscathed production plant, while all the other countries were being destroyed. You also have to remember the war in Europe had been decided by the Russians and the western front kept open by the British before America did any serious fighting in Europe. America's biggest asset and biggest contribution to WWII was its means of production. By D-Day, there was only one outcome to the war. Japan was so powerfiul that once it threw its dice and failed in its objective, it was all back pedaling for the next couple of years. Which their high command knew anyway before they started. Now there was intelligence at work.

But feel free, have a war with Iran because you really don't know your history, overstretch and too many wars are the usual way empires fall.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 11/27/2008 12:50:01 AM >

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RE: Iran says it now runs more than 5,000 centrifuges - 11/27/2008 1:13:34 AM

popeye1250

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Kind of makes you appreciate Nuclear Submarines doesn't it Celtic?
That's one of the first things President Obama should do is pose on the deck of a "Boomer" and have plenty of pictures taken, News crews there etc.
I wonder how many "Boomers" are within striking distance of Iran right now as I type this, just waiting,....under the oceans.

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RE: Iran says it now runs more than 5,000 centrifuges - 11/27/2008 2:52:29 AM

Satyr6406

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy
And who will we send to this war? With what materiel? The Army and Marines are thorougly beaten up from the number of deployments, and the materiel's in even worse shape.
thornhappy

The Army and Marines are "beat up" because of the decimation of their ranks. By 2000, we had less people in ALL of the services than we SENT to Desert Storm.

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