RE: Why is it everyone knows the solution to economic problems?

RE: Why is it everyone knows the solution to economic problems? (Full Version)

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Termyn8or -> RE: Why is it everyone knows the solution to economic problems? (11/28/2008 9:45:31 AM)
It must be time to define the middle class. I would say in the $60,000-100,000 a year income. It's not hard to see that these people should be paying some taxes, but instead of having each pay more taxes, how about having more people paying those taxes instead. It would be less taxing on each (pun intended). Middle class used to be like $35,000, and they paid. There were alot of them. Killing the golden goose they are. Decades ago there were a million millionaires in this country. Now there are many more but those millions don't mean what they once did. Back then with a million dollars you could build a factory, apartment building or at least a strip mall. You could open up the fanciest restaurant in town. You could do alot of things, try it now. Being a millionaire just ain't what it used to be. Why ? Ironically, the answer to that does not belong in this thread. T

variation30 -> RE: Why is it everyone knows the solution to economic problems? (11/28/2008 10:47:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers Afterall, food, clothing and shelter NEVER forced anybody to work hey ? how do inanimate objects force an individual to work? perhaps you are trying to say that the indidivudal forces him or herself to work because they desire these things?

variation30 -> RE: Why is it everyone knows the solution to economic problems? (11/28/2008 10:51:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule The solution is simple: A) for every thousand dollars per month that somebody earns lower the wages by two per cent. So somebody who earns ten thousand dollars per month gets a wage reduction of twenty per cent. (That is because wages are inflated just like stocks, causing the economic crisis.) If this is not sufficient to get out of the crisis, then repeat. B) hire more people. Wealth is produced by people that work. The way to get out of a poverty crisis is to get as many people to work as possible. ...what? why is this a solution? and do you know what inflation is? how are wages inflated? (there is a correct answer to this, but I don't think you'll stumble upon it) also, how do you hire more people when their isn't a demaned for more people to be hired?

variation30 -> RE: Why is it everyone knows the solution to economic problems? (11/28/2008 10:52:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UncleNasty phb, A wizened statement: "the flaw is that anything that is not monitised- has no value. when in fact- it is those things that are paramount to a civilization." One handed Uncle Nasty have you monitised your significant other? if not, does she have no value? value is determined ordinally, not cardinally.

Musicmystery -> RE: Why is it everyone knows the solution to economic problems? (11/28/2008 10:56:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: variation30 quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers Afterall, food, clothing and shelter NEVER forced anybody to work hey ? how do inanimate objects force an individual to work? perhaps you are trying to say that the indidivudal forces him or herself to work because they desire these things? metaphor n. 1) A figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an implicit comparison, as in “a sea of troubles” or “All the world's a stage” (Shakespeare). 2) One thing conceived as representing another; a symbol: “Hollywood has always been an irresistible, prefabricated metaphor for the crass, the materialistic, the shallow, and the craven” (Neal Gabler). __________________________________________________________________________________________________ "metaphor." The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Houghton Mifflin Company, 2004. Answers.com 28 Nov. 2008. http://www.answers.com/topic/metaphor

variation30 -> RE: Why is it everyone knows the solution to economic problems? (11/28/2008 10:59:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Irishknight Vaiation, And to answer the question about outsourcing, it is bad because there were no controls. The govt set up a way for greedy corps to take jobs away and move them to places where the people would work for pennies on the dollar. American workers CANNOT compete with that. As China has shown with their lead poisoning and the date rape toys recently, the money American companies "wasted" on quality controls was a good thing. And have the companies passed these savings on to us? Nope. We pay pretty much the same for third rate crap and poisoned toys and pet food. Outsourcing has destroyed the manufacturing base of this country almost to a point where we won't be able to rebuild it. There need to be controls. why should the government control what people do with their private property? the way that the government set up the 'greedy corps' to 'take jobs away' was by making it unprofitable for these 'greedy corps' to run factories in america. if a factory workers job can be done by someone who is illiterate and wholly uneducated and they will do it for 'pennies on the dollar'...why is it bad that those people be hired? it is not that AMerican workers CANNOT compete with that...it is that they WILL NOT compete with that. I assure you, any American can go into a factory and work for 15 cents a day (assuming it was legal). they choose not to. don't confuse choosing not to do something and being incapable of doing something. and why should copmanies pass any savings on to you. we the people are the ones who made them spend extra money for subjective quality control. let me ask you this. assuming that outsourcing has utterly destroyed the manufacturing base of this country...what negative effects does this have on our economy as a whole?

variation30 -> RE: Why is it everyone knows the solution to economic problems? (11/28/2008 11:03:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Oooh, ooh, I know what's better: tariffs on goods produced in Mexico so that the factory doesn't end up getting moved there after all. Yay! (Yes, it's inefficient. But we all still have jobs. Yay!) Ideology is fun to play around with while people can afford their gas and camcorders. Once that's over, they start to worry about their material well-being. Silly humans. perhaps tariffing imports from companies hurts us more than it helps us.

variation30 -> RE: Why is it everyone knows the solution to economic problems? (11/28/2008 11:08:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MmeGigs I can't see that either of these is better. They're kind of a wash for the factory owner. For everyone else involved, both of these options suck. If I'm the worker, there's really not much difference between the two. It's not humanly possible for me to work enough hours at $3/hr to pay for food, shelter and transportation. I'm going to be on welfare either way, and have to deal with the mountain of paperwork, the aggravation of dealing with the system and the social stigma that comes with being a welfare recipient. If I live in the community where the factory is located, it's going to suck either way. None of these people are going to be paying taxes, which will mean less money for road maintenance, schools, public safety, etc. Local businesses would suffer and some would end up going out of business. Local charities and non-profits would be stressed to the breaking point. Quality of life in my community will decline. hm. if there were no price fixing...what would paying employees less do to the prices of their good? (assuming that company has competitors it wants to best). then perhaps you should change how individuals are taxed and how these 'public' works are paid for. and also, charities and non-profits used to be financial empires before the state took over these jobs. I assure you, they can handle it. quote: If I'm a taxpayer, I'm going to be paying to support all of these people either way. I guess I'd be paying a little less if they were working for $3/hr than if they had no jobs, but why should my tax dollars be subsidizing ridiculously low wages? I agree, your income should not be taken away from you for any reason. but the question is this...would you have to subsidize these 'ridiculously' low wages?

variation30 -> RE: Why is it everyone knows the solution to economic problems? (11/28/2008 11:12:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery metaphor n. 1) A figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an implicit comparison, as in “a sea of troubles” or “All the world's a stage” (Shakespeare). 2) One thing conceived as representing another; a symbol: “Hollywood has always been an irresistible, prefabricated metaphor for the crass, the materialistic, the shallow, and the craven” (Neal Gabler). this was regarding someone equating lowering/aboloshing minimum wage with slave labor. the quote was " Afterall, food, clothing and shelter NEVER forced anybody to work hey ?" my response is that no, food, clothing, and shelter have never forced anybody to work. I'm curious as to his response. I don't think this person was speaking in figurative language as to him...people who want these 'essentials' are somehow forced into wage slavery (or just plain slavery) to acquire them.

NorthernGent -> RE: Why is it everyone knows the solution to economic problems? (11/28/2008 12:22:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MichiganHeadmast quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven We may not be "experts", but we sure understand the situation better than the government. I agree completely. Which begs the question: Why the fetish among so many for centralized planning? I disagree completely. Talk, including on a message board, is cheap...... They (they being the government) are in a position of authority; the best you and I can do, is contemplate on a message board or in the street. Understand the situation better than the government? That's why they're leading and you're following.

NorthernGent -> RE: Why is it everyone knows the solution to economic problems? (11/28/2008 12:29:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: variation30 why is outsourcing a bad thing? Cheap labour in foreign countries as a means of circumventing hundreds of years of hard fought workers' gains? May as well go back to the drawing board.

variation30 -> RE: Why is it everyone knows the solution to economic problems? (11/28/2008 3:10:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Understand the situation better than the government? That's why they're leading and you're following. hm. I thought it was because they had more guns and armor than I do...and if I step out of line they will take me from my home and put me into a jail...or if I resist, they will outright kill me. that's why I've always thought they had authority. would you pay your income, sales, gas, property, and vice taxes if you were not forced to do so? even if your leaders led you to do it? I wouldn't. they have to force me at gunpoint to do it.

variation30 -> RE: Why is it everyone knows the solution to economic problems? (11/28/2008 3:12:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Cheap labour in foreign countries as a means of circumventing hundreds of years of hard fought workers' gains? May as well go back to the drawing board. so outsourcing is economically bad because certain people aren't getting a job?

philosophy -> RE: Why is it everyone knows the solution to economic problems? (11/28/2008 4:09:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: variation30 quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Understand the situation better than the government? That's why they're leading and you're following. hm. I thought it was because they had more guns and armor than I do...and if I step out of line they will take me from my home and put me into a jail...or if I resist, they will outright kill me. that's why I've always thought they had authority. would you pay your income, sales, gas, property, and vice taxes if you were not forced to do so? even if your leaders led you to do it? I wouldn't. they have to force me at gunpoint to do it. ...can you spell sociopath?

Lordandmaster -> RE: Why is it everyone knows the solution to economic problems? (11/28/2008 5:22:03 PM)
I do believe he is finally getting it! Besides, outsourcing is bad not only for people who lose jobs, but also for people who retain their jobs but whose wages are driven down by the same pressure. quote: ORIGINAL: variation30 quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Cheap labour in foreign countries as a means of circumventing hundreds of years of hard fought workers' gains? May as well go back to the drawing board. so outsourcing is economically bad because certain people aren't getting a job?

Raechard -> RE: Why is it everyone knows the solution to economic problems? (11/28/2008 5:39:47 PM)
The solution is stop thinking about the problem. Some call this ignorance but Dr EconoMe says it is more about the need for false confidence.[8\|]

celticlord2112 -> RE: Why is it everyone knows the solution to economic problems? (11/28/2008 6:32:20 PM)
quote: Besides, outsourcing is bad not only for people who lose jobs, but also for people who retain their jobs but whose wages are driven down by the same pressure. Outsourcing is good for consumers, who pay less for the same goods at the store. Whom should prevail? The worker or the consumer?

philosophy -> RE: Why is it everyone knows the solution to economic problems? (11/28/2008 6:56:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 Whom should prevail? The worker or the consumer? ...they're not mutually exclusive terms. Workers are consumers, just not necessarily while they're working........

celticlord2112 -> RE: Why is it everyone knows the solution to economic problems? (11/28/2008 7:05:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 Whom should prevail? The worker or the consumer? ...they're not mutually exclusive terms. Workers are consumers, just not necessarily while they're working........ Hence the question. There have been, at various junctures, campaigns to "buy American" and "look for the Union label"--all focused on preserving domestic industries and jobs. Each of those campaigns failed to alter people's buying habits, which invariably trend towards the least price for comparable goods and services. So which is more meaningful? Higher wages or lower prices? Keep in mind that "both" is not a viable answer over any appreciable span of time.

Irishknight -> RE: Why is it everyone knows the solution to economic problems? (11/28/2008 7:30:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: variation30 why should the government control what people do with their private property? the way that the government set up the 'greedy corps' to 'take jobs away' was by making it unprofitable for these 'greedy corps' to run factories in america. if a factory workers job can be done by someone who is illiterate and wholly uneducated and they will do it for 'pennies on the dollar'...why is it bad that those people be hired? it is not that AMerican workers CANNOT compete with that...it is that they WILL NOT compete with that. I assure you, any American can go into a factory and work for 15 cents a day (assuming it was legal). they choose not to. don't confuse choosing not to do something and being incapable of doing something. and why should copmanies pass any savings on to you. we the people are the ones who made them spend extra money for subjective quality control. let me ask you this. assuming that outsourcing has utterly destroyed the manufacturing base of this country...what negative effects does this have on our economy as a whole? Since these same corps are unwilling to lower the prices that they charge for their goods here in america, an American worker CANNOT compete for jobs with 15 cent an hour worker in another country. Don't confuse trying to actually put food on your table with being lazy or demanding too much money. As for passing savings on to the people, that is one of the things many of these companies claimed they were outsourcing to do. I have lost jobs due to outsourcing and have seen others do the same. I have seen thriving towns become trailer trash wastelands because of factories fleeing. What has outsourcing done to the overall economy? Look around. There are not enough jobs anywhere in this country. There is not a single place in this country where people are not being forced to tighten their belts. Most people want to place blame entirelyon the current administration but that doesn't wash. Outsourcing industry pulls money out of the economy of this country. It is one, but not the only, major factor in the economic woes we are seeing at present. I believe that only a few weeks ago people all over these boards and the world were saying that a 2nd great depression was imminent. Outsourcing is a major cause and it is a fact.

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