Will the government soon own part of almost everything OR Mia's musings!

Will the government soon own part of almost everything OR Mia's musings! (Full Version)

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MzMia -> Will the government soon own part of almost everything OR Mia's musings! (11/26/2008 8:58:20 PM)
I am thinking that soon the government will be part owner of many if not most of all major American organizations. The government certainly is going to have a lot to say about all the companies that it is offering assistance and "bailingout". Detroit IS going to get some form of assistance, I am not sure if it will come in the form of a "bail out", and I can't pretend to know the form of assistance NOR the strings attached. I was thinking maybe the government should just take OVER the Big 3. Laugh if you want, but I think we are entering into the era of a bigger and much larger government because the "free economy" is not fucking working. Also, if you are against bailouts, then we should not bail out Citigroup, WallStreet, Banks, Housing and let everything and everyone just fail. The answer is getting clearer and clearer for most of us. We are entering into an era that government is going to be bigger than maybe ever before. Happy Thanksgiving and Pleased to Meet you Mr. Government, hope you guess my name. Hummed to that old stones tune.

variation30 -> RE: Will the government soon own part of almost everything OR Mia's musings! (11/26/2008 9:25:42 PM)
the government already has control of any industry in its borders. it's been this way for a long, long time.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Will the government soon own part of almost everything OR Mia's musings! (11/26/2008 9:25:53 PM)
quote: because the "free economy" is not fucking working. If you take a moment to read up on the origins of the housing bubble and the credit crunch, what wasn't "fucking working" was the regulatory oversight government was supposed to be providing. The marketplace does work. If the government weren't so quick to subsidize failure and give the fuckups a pass every damn time, the housing bubble would never have happened, and the credit crunch, if it happened at all, would have been considerably smaller. Government compounds economic misery, every time.

variation30 -> RE: Will the government soon own part of almost everything OR Mia's musings! (11/26/2008 9:26:53 PM)
I'm always confused when people blame this on deregulation or the free market. when have we ever had a free market? and what deregulations caused this problem? I've never received an answer to either of these questions.

corysub -> RE: Will the government soon own part of almost everything OR Mia's musings! (11/26/2008 9:27:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia I am thinking that soon the government will be part owner of many if not most of all major American organizations. The government certainly is going to have a lot to say about all the companies that it is offering assistance and "bailingout". Detroit IS going to get some form of assistance, I am not sure if it will come in the form of a "bail out", and I can't pretend to know the form of assistance NOR the strings attached. I was thinking maybe the government should just take OVER the Big 3. Laugh if you want, but I think we are entering into the era of a bigger and much larger government because the "free economy" is not fucking working. Also, if you are against bailouts, then we should not bail out Citigroup, WallStreet, Banks, Housing and let everything and everyone just fail. The answer is getting clearer and clearer for most of us. We are entering into an era that government is going to be bigger than maybe ever before. Happy Thanksgiving and Pleased to Meet you Mr. Government, hope you guess my name. Hummed to that old stones tune. The "free economy" works just fine. Certainly, like any economy, it has its ups and downs...but to paraphrase the old elevator operators joke..."its not the ups and downs that disturb me...its the "jerks" in Washington..... The ROOT cause of todays problems goes back to Jimmy Carter days and urban renewal programs that were put on steroids by Clinton and run by Cuomo pushed by Barney Frank and Wrangle to force banks to make loans in "red lined" areas to people that could not afford the loans. Cuomo relaxed the rules for Fannie Mae and FreddieMac, who paid tons of money in lobbying Congress who looked the other way instead of doing what the taxpayers pay they to do. The banks bundled these mortgages and sold them to a very happy to receive them Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac who's swollen portfolio of toxic loans provided huge increases in earnings and almost $100 million for the head of FNM who is an Obama advisor. And than...and than the Fed started to raise rates....And Than, and than those cheap mortgages were priced to the market and people found out the free ride was over.....no money down...no credit checks, no salary to accomodate the mortgage payments and you have massive foreclosure. Everyone now gets the blame BUT THE POLITICIANS IN THEIR $2,000 SUITS AND $200 HAIRCUTS AND FREE PARKING.....ARE NOW ADVISING US ON HOW TO GET OUT OF THIS PICKLE...Gimme a break..Your right...Big Government is here...gonna get bigger...and going to dominate our lives. until the pedulum begins to swing to the right once again.

khalya -> RE: Will the government soon own part of almost everything OR Mia's musings! (11/26/2008 9:30:52 PM)
I think that the government is purposefully letting everything go down, so that it can push for the Amero as the new form of currency. I think that unless NAFTA is repealed, the American Union will become a reality, and the government will continue to erode our right and act without our permission.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Will the government soon own part of almost everything OR Mia's musings! (11/26/2008 9:35:28 PM)
quote: and what deregulations caused this problem? In the case of the current credit crunch, the problem can be traced to "regulation", not "deregulation". If Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had not been used by Congress to "facilitate" home ownership among the lower economic strata, many of the so-called "toxic loans" would never have been made. Of course, if Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had not been privatized back in 1968, much of the whole mortgage mess would never have been possible. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were ostensibly to provide liquidity in mortgage markets, and thus "grease" the mortgage machinery. Apparently, there really can be such a thing as too much lube.

variation30 -> RE: Will the government soon own part of almost everything OR Mia's musings! (11/26/2008 9:37:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: khalya I think that the government is purposefully letting everything go down, so that it can push for the Amero as the new form of currency. I think that unless NAFTA is repealed, the American Union will become a reality, and the government will continue to erode our right and act without our permission. this assumes that goverment officials know what they are doing. I'm not convinced.

MzMia -> RE: Will the government soon own part of almost everything OR Mia's musings! (11/26/2008 9:38:22 PM)
CL, you still think a lot of "deregulation" is a good thing? Hummm look at all the companies and the jobs that have gone oversea's. We have basically "outsourced" most of America. Outsourcing America's Future Look at this list, maybe you all live in a different reality than I do. Wait until unemployment goes up even further. http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/popups/exporting.america/content.html The more I read the more amazed I am getting. I am amazed that we have as many jobs LEFT as we do. We are far worse off than I thought. Link TV \| Programs \| The Outsourcing Report: Exporting America's Future

variation30 -> RE: Will the government soon own part of almost everything OR Mia's musings! (11/26/2008 9:39:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 In the case of the current credit crunch, the problem can be traced to "regulation", not "deregulation". I agree. I was posing this question to someone who thinks that the free market caused these problems...

celticlord2112 -> RE: Will the government soon own part of almost everything OR Mia's musings! (11/26/2008 9:42:31 PM)
quote: CL, you still think a lot of "deregulation" is a good thing? Surely you jest. The government created the housing bubble. The government magnified the credit crunch. The government is turning what by rights should be a mild recession into a more severe one. Government is, as usual, at the heart of the problem. Remove government, remove the problem. Which is a whole lot of words to say, yes, I am in favor of less regulation rather than more. Regulation created this mess; how can more regulation possibly fix it?

subfever -> RE: Will the government soon own part of almost everything OR Mia's musings! (11/26/2008 9:49:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: khalya I think that the government is purposefully letting everything go down, so that it can push for the Amero as the new form of currency. I think that unless NAFTA is repealed, the American Union will become a reality, and the government will continue to erode our right and act without our permission. Create a catastrophic problem to enable the installation of their ready-made solution... which is really their primary agenda?

celticlord2112 -> RE: Will the government soon own part of almost everything OR Mia's musings! (11/26/2008 10:13:32 PM)
quote: Hummm look at all the companies and the jobs that have gone oversea's. We have basically "outsourced" most of America. The consequence, I might add, of government and it's decision to keep the dollar high relative to other currencies (positioning it as the reserve currency of the world), thereby making overseas labor cheap relative to American labor. Perversely enough, that same high valuation of the dollar is also what attracts foreign buyers of U.S debt. China, on the other hand, has historically kept the yuan artificially low, making its economy largely export driven.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Will the government soon own part of almost everything OR Mia's musings! (11/26/2008 10:24:49 PM)
quote: I am amazed that we have as many jobs LEFT as we do. We are far worse off than I thought. Actually, we are far less worse off than the media would have you believe. Despite all the "outsourcing" of jobs, the size of the American workforce as GROWN consistently over time. That means there are MORE jobs now than before. These are different jobs--and fewer jobs in traditional manufacturing sectors of the economy--but they are still jobs. Economies engage in a perpetual cycle of "creative destruction", as old jobs, old markets, old industries, old technologies, give way to new ones (whether new is intrinsically better is a values argument for which I have nowhere near the requisite amount of alcohol to explore properly). Viewing outsourcing as a "loss" of jobs is both wrong and dangerously superficial. The question is not about jobs per se, but rather which jobs, and which industries, do Americans want to have for themselves? Do we want more manufacturing? Are we prepared to adjust costs and prices so that American manufactured goods are price-competitive with those manufactured overseas? Are we prepared to perhaps forego certain employment benefits and perks to achieve that competitive posture? Do we want to be a net exporter rather than importer? Are we prepared to consume less as a result? Do we want jobs/industries that use cutting edge technologies? Are we prepared to contend with job and industry dislocations that some disruptive technologies engender?

MzMia -> RE: Will the government soon own part of almost everything OR Mia's musings! (11/26/2008 10:26:39 PM)
Celtic, of course we DO at least SOME of these jobs back! Manufacturing jobs should have NEVER left! I don't mind lowering initial starting wages, but tell me should American workers and citizens work for $10 a day as they do in 3rd world countries?

celticlord2112 -> RE: Will the government soon own part of almost everything OR Mia's musings! (11/26/2008 10:29:20 PM)
quote: I don't mind lowering initial starting wages, but tell me should American citizens work for $10 a day as they do in 3rd world countries? Unless you can propose a different cost savings measure to allow them to earn more, yes. Manufacturing jobs requires that manufacturing be profitable. What are people willing to do to ensure profitability? Without profits, the question is moot (because no profits means no jobs, period).

Truthiness -> RE: Will the government soon own part of almost everything OR Mia's musings! (11/27/2008 8:14:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia the "free economy" is not fucking working. "I think our basic principle that this is a free market system and that that has worked for us, that it creates innovation and risk taking, I think that’s a principle that we’ve gotta hold to as well." - Barack Obama, November 2008

MzMia -> RE: Will the government soon own part of almost everything OR Mia's musings! (11/27/2008 8:28:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Truthiness quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia the "free economy" is not fucking working. "I think our basic principle that this is a free market system and that that has worked for us, that it creates innovation and risk taking, I think that’s a principle that we’ve gotta hold to as well." - Barack Obama, November 2008 Hello person that just joined today.[8\|] Tell me, how is this "free market system" working for us these days? How well will it work, if the government does not prop it up? Look at the economic situation all over the world, tell me how well it will work without a lot of help? I did find about 50 articles where President Bush defends the free market system. lol How is the free market system working for President Bush these days? More of the damn same? I think not! CHANGE Bush makes case for the free markets - Economy in Turmoil- msnbc.com MY thoughts are that this is not working, and I agree with this article written by Matthew Stein. Unregulated GREED is causing the destruction of our planet! Matthew Stein: The Failure of the Free Market

Truthiness -> RE: Will the government soon own part of almost everything OR Mia's musings! (11/27/2008 9:23:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia I did find about 50 articles where President Bush defends the free market system. Just thought I'd point out that Barack Obama also defended it. That is his quote that I quoted above after all. So, you disagree with Barack when he said "I think our basic principle that this is a free market system and that that has worked for us, that it creates innovation and risk taking, I think that’s a principle that we’ve gotta hold to as well," then?

MzMia -> RE: Will the government soon own part of almost everything OR Mia's musings! (11/27/2008 9:30:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Truthiness quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia I did find about 50 articles where President Bush defends the free market system. Just thought I'd point out that Barack Obama also defended it. That is his quote that I quoted above after all. So, you disagree with Barack when he said "I think our basic principle that this is a free market system and that that has worked for us, that it creates innovation and risk taking, I think that’s a principle that we’ve gotta hold to as well," then? Well! I did not say abolish the damn thing! The "free market system" needs some MAJOR tweaking and changing! I did not say throw it all out now did I? CHANGE! Many changes are coming, I think CHANGE is the operative word, that I did not hear in President Bush's speeches. But then, President Bush said the economy was great right up until it crashed, right? There is nothing wrong with this economy! {Bush and McCain right before Sept. 2008} [:D]

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