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Slave contract???? - 11/27/2008 12:45:01 AM   
swan70


Posts: 47
Joined: 11/25/2008
Status: offline 		i am a slave by nature.  Right now, i'm serving as a sub to a wonderful Dom.  i am ready to commit to Him as His slave.  BUT--i have a reservation based on past experiences.

i ran away from a prior Master.  i was failing Him.  He was failing me.  i had communicated that to Him many times.  i begged for my release from service.  it was denied.  He refused to give me a way to obtain my freedom.  One day--He threatened HARM to me.  That was it for me. 

This is not a game to me.  Having to be a run away slave really bothers me.  It is not something i care to repeat.

i learn from my past.  Before i present myself as a gift to my new One, i want to negotiate an OUT agreement.  Does anyone else use this?  How?

My thoughts:  1) agree to a set amount of time before i am released/recommit or 2) have an agreement that i can "purchase" my freedom at any time (with Him setting the requirements to that)

If you have used this type of agreement--what were the outcomes? 


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RE: Slave contract???? - 11/27/2008 2:48:14 AM   
sexisubi


Posts: 373
Joined: 11/23/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: swan70


i learn from my past.  Before i present myself as a gift to my new One, i want to negotiate an OUT agreement.  Does anyone else use this?  How?




Here is what i think about agreements, you give me the rules you wish me to live by (i'm a space case so it helps if i write them down or type them). Show me the way you want me to do things, show me everything that would make me Your perfect, expect me to mess up but always be trying to get it right. If i want out i am able to walk through that door at any time, no discussion, no debates.

(in reply to swan70)
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RE: Slave contract???? - 11/27/2008 6:19:08 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Well, as you saw from your previous relationship, any agreements are only as good as the person you're making them with and their integrity in upholding them at the time.

You're not really a run-away-slave. You left a destructive relationship and what you didn't get was the kind of closure that YOU would have liked.

We have a procedure for leaving our relationship. 7 days notice, in writing, for BOTH of us, and during those 7 days , he's still responsible for me and I'm still under his authority. All the same , it's worth nothing if either of us recinds on it.

Nothing is going to make any difference if you're with a petulant man, and no amount of wishing, wanting or negotiation can make someone stick to some agreement unless they possess the integrity to do so in the first place.

agirl



(in reply to swan70)
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RE: Slave contract???? - 11/27/2008 6:23:48 AM   
TechLord


Posts: 9
Joined: 7/21/2008
Status: offline 		When I presented milady with her Collar of Consideration, there was a contract included with that. It had a specified time limit built into the document, with an option to extend it, IF we both agreed. I also had the right to terminate the contract at any time. As it turned out, she met another man, a vanilla, and requested to be released shortly after signing the contract. Under the circumstances, I deemed that to be the proper course of action.

(in reply to sexisubi)
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RE: Slave contract???? - 11/27/2008 6:35:07 AM   
SadysticJester


Posts: 122
Joined: 6/24/2008
Status: offline 		i use contracts with all my slaves and subs,while others dont.it depends on them personally.....the use of contracts allows everyone a trial time period to see if both live up to the others beliefs,and so forth. there is a clause that allows one or the other to terminate there contract,if it is unresolvable....contracts are renewable and usually(for me)start with a 3 month contract..this allows both sides to get to know each other in a more intimate way(not sex,,although that may happen)

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(in reply to TechLord)
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RE: Slave contract???? - 11/27/2008 7:02:06 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: swan70

Before i present myself as a gift to my new One, i want to negotiate an OUT agreement.  Does anyone else use this?  How?


I don't use contracts, because they're not really contracts (ie: they're unenforceable).  But if something like that helps you negotiate the issues that are important to you, and develop a mutual understanding and agreement, then they're useful in that way.
 
Bottom line is that every relationship I've ever had, vanilla or power exchange, has had exactly the same "out".  They have all been consensual relationships from start to end, and if a partner of mine no longer wished to be there with me, they were free to go with everything that was theirs, and enough of my money so they could land comfortably on their own feet.  Along with as much of support as I could muster (it is not always easy to do).
 
From a  personal point of view, I wouldn't want a partner to be with me out of obligation or necessity.  So Having a clear, realistic and agreed upon exit strategy only makes sense.  Besides, you're living proof that people are going to leave when they want to leave... realeased or not.  It's not realistic to keep them locked and chained in the basement 24/7.
 
John

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(in reply to swan70)
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RE: Slave contract???? - 11/27/2008 7:22:41 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: swan70

My thoughts:  1) agree to a set amount of time before i am released/recommit or 2) have an agreement that i can "purchase" my freedom at any time (with Him setting the requirements to that)


How about a "you don't feed the pet, you kick the pet, you burn the pet's whiskers the nice people come and take the pet away from you" clause?

Seriously, I'm all for people doing what they what but considering we do it for cats and dogs, if you wanna do the "I can't ever leave" thing, why not a humane society clause? Obviously you feel certain things are worth breaking the contract for so just put them in as "You do this and you render this contract null and void".

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to swan70)
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RE: Slave contract???? - 11/27/2008 7:37:53 AM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: swan70
This is not a game to me.  Having to be a run away slave really bothers me.  It is not something i care to repeat.


If he was failing you (your words), then he wasn't holding up his end of the oral contract and the contract became void anyway.  You wanted him to man up and do the right thing. He didn't.  People don't always do what we want.

Even if you make a new contract with a clause for renewal, or an "out" clause, then he can, at any time, tell you he is voiding the contract and the new one is an oral contract, and you have no choice.  If you left, you would still be a "runaway" as you put it.

There is no way to guarantee what you are trying to guarantee here.  That's what, indeed, makes it a "game".  It only works when everyone follows the rules.  As soon as someone stops following the rules, you're screwed.


Cali




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(in reply to swan70)
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RE: Slave contract???? - 11/27/2008 8:04:01 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Agirl said exactly what was in my mind.  Do you really want to be with him or do you just want to be with someone?

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RE: Slave contract???? - 11/27/2008 8:57:00 AM   
silkenfire


Posts: 130
Joined: 9/27/2007
Status: offline 		The point of a contract, in my mind is twofold:
1) Symbolic form of transfer of true power -- symbolically you are signing away your rights, although really you're not as someone said, unenforceable.
2) Getting everyone on the same page. A contract makes sure that if it specifies duties of the Owner/Dom/othertitlehere in taking care of the slave/sub/othertitlehere and the responsibilities of the slave to the owner, that everyone involved is aware of the expectations involved in the relationship. I think this is important, because setting it out on paper not only makes sure that both parties are aware of the intent, but also that what winds up in the contract are the items of highest priority within the relationship because they were important enough for inclusion.

An out clause is necessary only for you to have closure in the sense that you want -- no legal force will hold you to the contract.



(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Slave contract???? - 11/27/2008 9:10:30 AM   
swan70


Posts: 47
Joined: 11/25/2008
Status: offline 		Wow!  Some great stuff here......

Thanks agirl--those words hit the mark.  it is closure that i lack. 

i do  want to be with my current One.  MUCH!  i've been His sub for several months...and trust Him.  There is nothing about Him that makes me leary.  As i was re-reading my post and the replies, i realized that i'm being "gun shy." 

Clear communication is one of the aspects of D/s that i am most drawn to.  i think i like the idea of a contract because of it's clarity. 

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Slave contract???? - 11/27/2008 10:17:59 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		The only thing to deal with here is the disclosure of your expectations to your Dom. It is he who will deal with what your request for a backdoor and it's his empathy and/or understanding of it that will be what you need to deal with.

Get out of the "what should be in a relationship" mentality in trying to form your new dynamic and just worry about "what is in our relationship".

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 11/27/2008 10:18:45 AM >

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I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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(in reply to swan70)
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RE: Slave contract???? - 11/27/2008 10:55:39 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: swan70

Wow!  Some great stuff here......

Thanks agirl--those words hit the mark.  it is closure that i lack. 

i do  want to be with my current One.  MUCH!  i've been His sub for several months...and trust Him.  There is nothing about Him that makes me leary.  As i was re-reading my post and the replies, i realized that i'm being "gun shy." 

Clear communication is one of the aspects of D/s that i am most drawn to.  i think i like the idea of a contract because of it's clarity. 


Seriously. Clarity or security?

agirl

(in reply to swan70)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Slave contract???? - 11/27/2008 2:00:12 PM   
Daes


Posts: 246
Joined: 4/20/2007
From: Diamond Bar, SoCal
Status: offline 		What CalifChick said.

Also, this is going to sound rather callous, but it always Fascinates me how some people feel that they do not have the power to Leave a relationship if they want out, so much so that they feel they need permission.

It just completely boggles my mind.


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I want to be in surrender of His strength, of His power. Alone, I am nothing, but in His arms I am all things...

~His puppy~

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RE: Slave contract???? - 11/27/2008 2:22:36 PM   
swan70


Posts: 47
Joined: 11/25/2008
Status: offline 		To agirl:

NihilusZero--i really don't worry about what should be.  i'm not looking to do this "right" because right is whatever my One and i decide.  But knowledge is power--and i'd rather learn from other peoples mistakes than my own.

Agirl--Good question.  Answer:  clarity--without a doubt.    i already feel secure.  i'd not even THINK of taking this step with Him if i did not feel secure. 

Daes--i know it is hard to understand because it is so far from your mindset.  Lifestyle aside--thousands of woman stay with abusive men EVERY DAY because they can not leave.  i was one of those woman for 16 years.  Finally-a friend helped me find the strength, the hope, and the need to leave.   

imho--i think it is actually easier in lifestyle to leave a Master/Dom.  This concept is addressed a lot inside of the community.  Sub rights are discussed. 


(in reply to Daes)
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RE: Slave contract???? - 11/27/2008 7:10:15 PM   
scottishjason


Posts: 23
Joined: 6/25/2008
Status: offline 		I am going to talk about your original question.  First off I do use contracts.  But the first rule in the contract is that at every year on the anniversary of the contract each party must agree to renew it for the next year.  So we both sign the contract each year to renew the contract.  If for any reason both parties are not comfortable renewing the contract the contract becomes void.  I also include the fact that during the contract I will not sell or trade my slave at any time.  You could also include a section about what types of situations would be grounds for ending a contract. 

Contracts are both good and bad things… but the most important thing you should keep in mind is that you are talking about a relationship… for this you should make sure you know the person you are getting into this relationship with.  If you don’t feel comfortable with someone don’t get into a relationship with them. 

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RE: Slave contract???? - 11/28/2008 9:06:17 AM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		Imo, a written D/s contract is unnecessary if I am committing to something or someone (Unless He prefers it, in which case, that is fine).  I don't think a piece of paper makes someone any less likely to screw someone else over; look at the numbers on divorce rate if you want to see just how little commitments, even ones on paper, mean to some (And, I am about to become part of those statistics and I am not pleased). 
I think the greater concern here is that you were in an abusive relationship and that is creating the anxiety and cognitive dissonance for you far more than is the idea of a paper contract; that is just a symbol.  Have you spoken with your Dominant about your past experiences and concerns?  What has happened to allay your fears? What are you doing in terms of personal growth? 
Best wishes, 
  Davan

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May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
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RE: Slave contract???? - 11/29/2008 12:08:27 PM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		swan, you really are making this so much more complicated than it needs to be. A buyout option?!?!?!?!?!?

You are free to leave a relationship at any time, for any reason. No one can force you to stay, and if they try, that is a criminal offense.

Rather than that, what I would suggest is a good talk with your Master on what sorts of issues would cause you to consider leaving. And what issues would cause them to consider letting you go, for that matter. It's been said soooo many times, open, honest (and ongoing) discussion is the basis for a solid relationship. That goes for vanilla as well as BDSM.

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You teach best what you have lived.

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RE: Slave contract???? - 11/29/2008 1:22:05 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		I had the same problem with my cell phone contract.  I begged release, repeatedly, and kept being denied. I now refuse to sign any more contracts unless I get a decent severence bonus guaranteed as part of the terms!! 

WinD

< Message edited by WinsomeDefiance -- 11/29/2008 1:23:24 PM >

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RE: Slave contract???? - 12/2/2008 9:26:50 AM   
sailorfrank


Posts: 127
Joined: 6/18/2008
Status: offline 		    Great point....loved it!!

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
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