A question for fellow gay (male) submissives... or anyone else who wants to pretend to be one. (Full Version)

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aravain -> A question for fellow gay (male) submissives... or anyone else who wants to pretend to be one. (11/29/2008 1:17:52 AM)

I've been thinking again (a terribly dangerous thing that seems to only happen around 3:30am) and I've come up with a sufficiently interesting issue that I'd like to get some opinions on.

For those submissive males who have male dominants (in which sexual relations are an aspect of the dynamic), do you consider yourselves (in anal sex) exclusively Top(the penetrator), Bottom(the penetrated), or Versatile(no matter the leaning)?

How you answer that question greatly impacts the next! I've devided it into sections :D Bottoms (men who are the penetrated by female dominants, feel free to chime in), then Tops (men who have female dominants with whome they have intercourse, feel free to chime in), then Versatiles

For exclusive bottoms:

This is where I lay. Personally I identify as a 'bottom' for a simple reason. I'm not remotely interested in penetrating anyone, let alone another man, and the point would be moot anyways because I'm not actually *long* enough to do it effectively (unless the other person was *literally* flesh and bones).

But what about if a dominant, as part of submitting to him, ordered *me* to *penetrate* him (or another person)?

I'm not entirely sure what I would do. I'd like to say I'd follow my dominant's order and do so, but even at the *thought* I instantly lose, ehrm, my 'happiness' as it were. I'm interested to hear the input of others who identify as bottoms, their reasonings for doing so, and how they would/have reacted to the situation or one similar.

For exclusive tops:

I'm interested in understanding your dynamic. Specifically, how do you penetrate (an act usually viewed as dominance) exclusively within your submission? I'd imagine it would be in the same fashion that male subs with female dominants provide penetration as well... but I can't quite wrap my head around that either. I understand (quite well) that it's pleasurable for the 'receiver' but I'm interested to hear how it works within the dynamic.

For Versatiles:

I would love to hear about your dynamic in general! It seems to me that it would be an interesting proposition (especially in a situation with an exclusively top dominant) and I'd like to hear more.

Apologies that this is so narrowly focused on sexual issues within a BDSM dynamic (and, indeed, even further focused on a very specific subset of the dynamic) but it was a mild curiosity and I knew that if I didn't write it now, I wouldn't in the morning :) ERm, when I wake up.

EDIT TO ADD: By all means, any opinions from anyone regardless of gender and/or sex are much appreciated :)



Usako -> RE: A question for fellow gay (male) submissives... or anyone else who wants to pretend to be one. (11/29/2008 2:07:32 AM)

Since it's 5am and I'm bored and cannot sleep...I'll chime in; despite the fact that the only phallic object I own is made of plastic.

I think the answer to the first one (if ya don't want to stick your penis into a hole) would be to find someone who doesn't desire it. It all boils down to compatibility. Perhaps be with someone who just wants to stick it in you, or be a cuckhold or just have a dynamic without sex. I guess that's the point of having limits, to find someone who matches up to them and find harmony.

As for the second issue...well I don't have a dynamic to compare it to so yeah. HOWEVER, I think as long as the dominant person is the one in control over the sex then that's what should matter. I read about it working so I guess someone will chime in but I don't find it so odd to believe. Would boil down to compatibility again. If a guy said that putting his penis in me would mess up his submission it either wouldn't work out OR just wouldn't have to do with sex. Depends on the nature of the arrangement.

Yay for 5am answers!



aravain -> RE: A question for fellow gay (male) submissives... or anyone else who wants to pretend to be one. (11/29/2008 2:09:33 AM)

Yay for being on the same timezone! XD 



SirMIkeSD -> RE: A question for fellow gay (male) submissives... or anyone else who wants to pretend to be one. (11/29/2008 6:44:08 AM)

Just because you are/can top does not make you dominant in sex or S/M. There are those that enjoy the top role in both without any sign or inkling of being a dominant. I was a SM top for years before I noticed my dominant side and acted on it. I was just having fun and enjoying myself. D/s is not about sex or S/M play, they are many people that have one or both without it. I have played with woman and straight men there is no sex involved with either and it is rare for D/s to be involved beyond get up on the cross/spanking bench/etc.

Before I say this let me say that I am a gay male and this may be viewed as a stereo typing but, have you been to a gay bar, have you seen the number of effeminate men at some of those? Well someone has to be the top do you see them as dominant in any way. I am not saying there many not be dominant personalities in the group, but I would think it's not that high.

Mike



aravain -> RE: A question for fellow gay (male) submissives... or anyone else who wants to pretend to be one. (11/29/2008 7:28:04 AM)

To answer your post as a whole:

All of those reasons were why I was very specific and very careful about narrowing down and explaining and even giving subsections with different queries.

Dominance/Submission may not include sex for some people... but in this case I was asking those who include it as part of their D/S. Certainly men and women can play with people of any gender and any other myriad of choices, but I asked for the opinions of men who identify as gay and as submissives (Or "anyone who wants to pretend to be one" in order to add a bit of lightheartedness).

I've actually been to a few gay bars, and *yes* I have seen men as incredibly dominant, even effeminate men. A man doesn't have to be 'masculine' to be dominant (OR a top). In fact, the most effeminant gay man I know is a very dominant personality and declares with pride that 'no one's ever gonna fuck this ass'. I don't equate dominance with masculinity or anything of the sort.

Any insight you could bring into it would be interesting, but I did my best to be thorough in narrowing the scope to avoid the reaction that you had :(

EDIT: Grammar in my first sentence >.< Also, to clarify my last: I mean that I wanted to skip the idea of stereotyping (and even admitted to a little bit in not understanding how some dynamics work) mainly because, for me, this was meant to *BUST* stereotypes and provide more insight (especially) into the Gay BDSM scene as a whole.



SirMIkeSD -> RE: A question for fellow gay (male) submissives... or anyone else who wants to pretend to be one. (11/29/2008 7:45:39 AM)

I was attempting to provide insight to you statement below.

quote:

But what about if a dominant, as part of submitting to him, ordered *me* to *penetrate* him (or another person)?

I'm not entirely sure what I would do. I'd like to say I'd follow my dominant's order and do so, but even at the *thought* I instantly lose, ehrm, my 'happiness' as it were. I'm interested to hear the input of others who identify as bottoms, their reasonings for doing so, and how they would/have reacted to the situation or one similar.


Mike



iwearpanties -> RE: A question for fellow gay (male) submissives... or anyone else who wants to pretend to be one. (11/29/2008 8:00:02 AM)

as a sub male your thread caught my eye . i have not found nor met any Male Doms who would just like too play at Domination and Bondage games . many ive talked too are seeking some for of sex many times telling  and saying ill be fucked by them  even if i say its a limit . so im not sure what you seeking or looking for



iwearpanties -> RE: A question for fellow gay (male) submissives... or anyone else who wants to pretend to be one. (11/29/2008 8:02:07 AM)

wow i did Miss read your posting SIR MIke .    please for give



VampiresLair -> RE: A question for fellow gay (male) submissives... or anyone else who wants to pretend to be one. (11/29/2008 8:11:00 AM)

<<For exclusive tops:

I'm interested in understanding your dynamic. Specifically, how do you penetrate (an act usually viewed as dominance) exclusively within your submission? I'd imagine it would be in the same fashion that male subs with female dominants provide penetration as well... but I can't quite wrap my head around that either. I understand (quite well) that it's pleasurable for the 'receiver' but I'm interested to hear how it works within the dynamic.>>
Allowing my slave to penetrate me doesnt in any way impact our dynamic. *I* want it so *I* get it. *HE* is making me happy by doing as I wish.  There is nothing dominant about penetrating someone when the person with the insertable is tied up, gagged and helpless. They are still doing the penetrating, but you can hardly consider them the top.

Men do not have to be any certain way in their outward appearance to be a Top or bottom. I have known VERY dominant effeminate men, they had powerful personalities even though they had effeminate demeanor. The dynamic between two people is usually fairly unaffected by their sex positions. Those of us in longer term relationships tend to move away from "this makes you dominant, this makes me submissive" type generalities about activities and actions. What we are day to day isnt rattled by how we might act once. His penetrating me is no more dominant than my doing laundry is submissive. It just is.

DV



moonvine -> RE: A question for fellow gay (male) submissives... or anyone else who wants to pretend to be one. (11/29/2008 8:26:36 AM)

What?????  No forgotten "S"????  



aravain -> RE: A question for fellow gay (male) submissives... or anyone else who wants to pretend to be one. (11/29/2008 8:28:54 AM)

Thanks for the insight! :D

It seems I misrepresented myself in the original post (or at least my intent) but I do like how it reads, now, and understanding *this* aspect as well. I wasn't trying to say originally that the act of penetration makes one dominant, but I was also not thinking of the act of 'passive penetration' (as I call it) when making the original post, I was trying to get that across and failed rather spectacularly.

I agree that appearance has very little to do with a person's sexual choices, proclivities, and desires! I was also not trying to generalize activities into 'dominant' and 'submissive' activities, though it seems to fall under the same poor choice of words.

Still, an interesting discussion and thought, nonetheless!



aravain -> RE: A question for fellow gay (male) submissives... or anyone else who wants to pretend to be one. (11/29/2008 8:34:37 AM)

In that case it provides a little more context to your post, but it feels to me like you've seperated that from the intended audience (those who identify as gay, male, submissive, and *exclusively* 'bottoms' in sex).

As an exclusive bottom, I *don't* penetrate anyone, ever. That's even within the vanilla world. I'm not interested, and I literally can't do it because the thought of it is so distasteful that I become *unable* to do it. This was a question focused on submissive bottoms who are told to penetrate either their dominant, or another person (which are different levels of involvement, I'll admit, but in either case there would be little difference in the difficulties *for me* presented). There was also a second part to the question, namely... why do they identify as an exclusive bottom within sex.

Make more sense?

EDIT: I love pronouns... no, really >.>



aravain -> RE: A question for fellow gay (male) submissives... or anyone else who wants to pretend to be one. (11/29/2008 8:36:59 AM)

No, just a 'was' instead of a 'were' [;)] Keep your eyes open, though. With the way I'm typing today it's only a matter of time!



moonvine -> RE: A question for fellow gay (male) submissives... or anyone else who wants to pretend to be one. (11/29/2008 8:39:00 AM)

I can't identify with this so much, but I can identify with being ordered to do things I found distasteful and managing to do them anyway, but I can see how being physically unable to do a thing would be very daunting.  Can you just make this a hard limit maybe?



aravain -> RE: A question for fellow gay (male) submissives... or anyone else who wants to pretend to be one. (11/29/2008 8:42:54 AM)

Haha, I've only had cause for it to come up once. Afterward it became a hard limit (but only in the sense that he wasn't interested in trying again, because I was more than a little, um, traumatized by the experience. It was more a hard limit for him).

But I was in a strange mood last night and contemplating quite a few hypothetical scenarios.



sunshinemiss -> RE: A question for fellow gay (male) submissives... or anyone else who wants to pretend to be one. (11/29/2008 8:49:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: VampiresLair

Allowing my slave to penetrate me doesnt in any way impact our dynamic. *I* want it so *I* get it. *HE* is making me happy by doing as I wish.  There is nothing dominant about penetrating someone when the person with the insertable is tied up, gagged and helpless. They are still doing the penetrating, but you can hardly consider them the top.
DV



[sm=offtopic2.gif]

Hey DV, hot sexy Mistress of the Night,
I gotta say it... I tried not to... I gotta...

PENETRATION IS PATRIARCHY.

Whew, now that that is out of the way....*chuckling to beat the band.
Hope you and darling fox a licious had a great Thanksgiving.

well wishes,
sunshine



WestBaySlave -> RE: A question for fellow gay (male) submissives... or anyone else who wants to pretend to be one. (11/29/2008 12:18:12 PM)

  I never top and if I had to I'd probably need viagra because the thought is so off-putting... but I'd do it if required.



Araven -> RE: A question for fellow gay (male) submissives... or anyone else who wants to pretend to be one. (11/29/2008 1:39:07 PM)

I suppose although this situation does not really apply to me, I'll pretend and indulge myself if I was to be in this situation. I'de consider myself versatile. I'de prefer to be the one on the bottom, being penetrated, but if I was ordered to do so, I might have a slight hesitation, but I'de obey the order and do the penetrating. I don't view the act of penetrating as a submissive or a dominance thing. I view it simply as an act of sexual pleasure. Its all about the head space... and where your mind is, not where your cock is.



slavegirljoy -> RE: A question for fellow gay (male) submissives... or anyone else who wants to pretend to be one. (11/29/2008 8:47:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aravain

I'm not remotely interested in penetrating anyone, let alone another man, and the point would be moot anyways because I'm not actually *long* enough to do it effectively (unless the other person was *literally* flesh and bones).


Suggestion:  Try using a strap-on.
 
For a man, a strap-on can be worn for penetrative sex, and may be used in cases of erectile dysfunction or to penetrate multiple partners. A wide variety of harnesses and dildos is available... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strap-on_dildo

Strap-ons can help compensate for erection problems. If a man has erectile dysfunction, a strap-on can provide a mutually satisfying way for the couple to experience penile-vaginal intercourse.

Some men enjoy using strap-on dildos that are noticeably larger or smaller than their own erections.

Strap-on play is not something the harness-wearer imposes on the recipient.  In other words, the strap-on wearer is not necessarily dominant, nor the recipient necessarily submissive. http://www.mypleasure.com/education/sexed/strapons.asp
 
A hollow dildo is a penis-shaped dildo that’s designed to fit perfectly over your own penis and is usually very comfortable to wear.
 
Hollow dildos can be used to increase both the length and width of your penis, as well as for men who has difficulty in maintaining or retaining erections. http://www.sensualdirect.com/strap-on-dildo/hollow-dildo/

quote:

But what about if a dominant, as part of submitting to him, ordered *me* to *penetrate* him (or another person)?

That's something that you have to decide.  Each person decides what they will and will not do.  And, making certain that you find a partner who understands and accepts what you will and will not do is very important to having a mutually-satisfying relationship.  As for me, there have been many, many, many things that i have done over the years, within my relationships, that i wasn't really thrilled about doing.  Most of those things became very enjoyable to me, after doing them.
 
joy
Master David's erotic-domestic slave



subboi3382 -> RE: A question for fellow gay (male) submissives... or anyone else who wants to pretend to be one. (11/30/2008 1:17:29 AM)

i'm an exclusive bottom. Right now I am not allowed to top anyone, though in the past i have had Doms that i have been loaned to want me to top them. Mostly I didn't have that problem, but a few times I did and like she /\ said i used a strap on.



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