Bail Out News! Auto execs have a plan! (Full Version)

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MzMia -> Bail Out News! Auto execs have a plan! (12/1/2008 6:07:46 PM)

Well I was reading about the crumbling economy and I found this article.
The auto execs have a plan!
 
Each one of the Big 3 will submit their individual plans!
According to the article, they will announce their plans AFTER the close of the

stock market on Tuesday.

Auto execs prepare for second run at Washington - MarketWatch
Congress will vote on the "BailOut" next week, and I think they are going to go
ahead and "Bail them out", and say Merry Christmas and to all a good night.
They don't want to see the market drop to 6000 before Christmas.
Thoughts, idea's, opinions?




popeye1250 -> RE: Bail Out News! Auto execs have a plan! (12/1/2008 7:27:09 PM)

Mia, they said on CNBC that G.M. is probably going to have to drop a line again like when they stopped making Oldsmobiles.
I'm betting on "BUICK" getting the ax.




MzMia -> RE: Bail Out News! Auto execs have a plan! (12/1/2008 7:34:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Mia, they said on CNBC that G.M. is probably going to have to drop a line again like when they stopped making Oldsmobiles.
I'm betting on "BUICK" getting the ax.


[sm=hello.gif]
Thank you for answering my thread, Popeye!
I can't wait to hear the changes they are suggesting, I think they are going to have
to drop and change a lot of models, and I am sure they are going to be reductions
in the work force, and reductions in pay.




celticlord2112 -> RE: Bail Out News! Auto execs have a plan! (12/1/2008 8:16:26 PM)

The CEOs have formulated a plan....or so they say.

However, I was disappointed to read that Ron Gettelfinger said only that the UAW was willing to "go back to the bargaining table."  For any plan to have merit, the UAW needs to be willing to do a lot more than just renegotiate.  It would help to hear Gettelfinger propose some ideas on how to trim payroll and pension costs--a major component of why the auto makers are bleeding cash right now.  As it stands, a lot of UAW members are going to be headed for the unemployment lines next month; at the very least, Gettelfinger owes it to his constituencies to stand next to the CEOs and take the hit for screwing the industry up so badly.

The mistakes were made on both sides of the bargaining table.  The leadership and accountability need to come from both sides of the bargaining table.  So far, I'm not sure we're really seeing it even from the CEO side, but at the moment there's more signs of it on the CEO side then on the UAW side.




UncleNasty -> RE: Bail Out News! Auto execs have a plan! (12/1/2008 8:31:55 PM)

With the combined bailouts topping $7 trillion at this point, with no real end in sight, and no significant oversight...

I think the open door policy is already well established. As is the policy of ignoring the will of the people.

One handed Uncle Nasty




soul2share -> RE: Bail Out News! Auto execs have a plan! (12/1/2008 8:43:35 PM)

Personally, until the UAW is ready to make concessions, then the auto industry is pretty much never going to change.  They dug themselves into a hole, and now want the taxpayers to bail them out?  They can start with pay cuts from the top right on down the line......

The rest of the country is suffering, benefits are being cut left and right, for both retirees and current employees, and the union refuses to deal?  Screw 'em then....let them get laid off....see how long the union wants to pay them then!  If that sounds harsh, well, it is time that the UAW and the auto industry get a little dose of reality too. 

If the big 3 have a plan, and can be made to stick to it, then fine, give them SOME help....but to totally go in and finance their mistakes and bad judgement?  NO!





Vendaval -> RE: Bail Out News! Auto execs have a plan! (12/1/2008 11:57:05 PM)

Word is that the CEOs will be arriving in something less extravagant than their private jets this time.




housesub4you -> RE: Bail Out News! Auto execs have a plan! (12/2/2008 3:47:59 AM)

Yea, they will be making the 10 hour drive in one of their autos.

I have little doubt they will offer much, but the media and congress will make it sound like they are so "the people" who pay for it will not be to pissed.

Personally, let them go to court, like every other business who fails, then perhaps we will see some change. 

We have an auto plant in our town, and I'm sick of listening to 1 of my neighbor's who has been laid off complaining about only getting 85% of his pay, and health coverage for the last several years.  While never looking for work.  I don't know any other business where you get laid off and receive 85% of your pay.




corysub -> RE: Bail Out News! Auto execs have a plan! (12/2/2008 4:04:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: soul2share

Personally, until the UAW is ready to make concessions, then the auto industry is pretty much never going to change.  They dug themselves into a hole, and now want the taxpayers to bail them out?  They can start with pay cuts from the top right on down the line......

The rest of the country is suffering, benefits are being cut left and right, for both retirees and current employees, and the union refuses to deal?  Screw 'em then....let them get laid off....see how long the union wants to pay them then!  If that sounds harsh, well, it is time that the UAW and the auto industry get a little dose of reality too. 

If the big 3 have a plan, and can be made to stick to it, then fine, give them SOME help....but to totally go in and finance their mistakes and bad judgement?  NO!




You are rignt on with your comments.  The UAW got away with outrageous demands that began when the U.S. auto industry dominated the marketplace and car sales were soaring.  How many "blue collar" workers in your towns earn over $70 an hour to work on an assembly line....with pay for doing nothing perks when there is no work for them?  The companies also missed the market with cars that did not compare with the quality of Japanese and German imports, a dealer system that had inferior repair facilities on average, and so many bad cars coming off these assembly lines that we had to pass a "lemon law". 
The blame for market share loss starts with the executives, but all are to blame, right down to the workers who  made the transmission on the last new American car I purchased twenty years ago and the transmission blew after less than a hundred miles on our first trip. 
Congress is also responsible here but our politicians seem immune to be blammed for any of the ills facing the auto industry and the economy in general for that matter.  Even the "bailout" that will probably be given to the industry will include demands for 50 mpg cars or some rediculous numbers with Barney Frank and Pelosi designing the cars that have to be made whether the consumer wants them or not...all to satisfy the radical green agenda.  Where are the marketing studies, the cost analysis, the pay back time for the consumer, that would justify junking the hundreds of millions of cars out there today?  How many people today are prepared to go out and buy a new car because it will get double the mileage? The economy is falling apart, they are talking now about auto sales averaging closer to ten million annually when fifteen to sixteen million seems the average...and our political leaders want to force consumers to buy what they dictate, and build windmills for our energy.  This is turning into a nightmare.

Speaking of Pelosi, I wonder why no one questions the plane the good Speaker of the House uses when she flys the country on Air Force jets.....I think she had to settle for something less than AirForce One...but believe it's not a six passenger executive jet either.  What does she do that demands such a cost to taxpayers, and why does she deserve to fly at taxpayers cost of thousands of dollars and hour when she can fly first class to SanFrancisco on her own dime?
http://patdollard.com/2008/11/i-slept-on-the-pelosi-bigger-plane-with-video/
         




pahunkboy -> RE: Bail Out News! Auto execs have a plan! (12/2/2008 4:25:43 AM)

I wonder how much a mile the pay out amounts to?

Ford already had a plan.  So they likely emailed it to the others, and with word they inserted the new names and whalla.  they all have a plan.

an intern could type one up in 2 hours.  maybe faster.




MzMia -> RE: Bail Out News! Auto execs have a plan! (12/2/2008 4:37:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I wonder how much a mile the pay out amounts to?

Ford already had a plan.  So they likely emailed it to the others, and with word they inserted the new names and whalla.  they all have a plan.

an intern could type one up in 2 hours.  maybe faster.



I am hoping they put a lot more effort into their "plans" than that, pahunk.
I would hope they "care" a lot more about the future of the American auto makers.
 




pahunkboy -> RE: Bail Out News! Auto execs have a plan! (12/2/2008 5:15:29 AM)

I suppose. I am  hoping for the best.  Anytime I see terrorism or violence, I think, "someone took that guys money"




SilverMark -> RE: Bail Out News! Auto execs have a plan! (12/2/2008 5:21:09 AM)

They may have a plan but, do they have the votes?
Without the unions on board all they really have is a band aid and a prayer.
25 billion will only keep them afloat for a short time, they need a re-organization and perhaps that might get the Unions attention?
I see no happy ending for us or the Automakers.




subrob1967 -> RE: Bail Out News! Auto execs have a plan! (12/2/2008 9:07:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Mia, they said on CNBC that G.M. is probably going to have to drop a line again like when they stopped making Oldsmobiles.
I'm betting on "BUICK" getting the ax.


I'd bet Pontiac or GMC before Buick, most Pontiacs & GMC's are Chevy clones, and Buick is their midgrade line.




celticlord2112 -> RE: Bail Out News! Auto execs have a plan! (12/2/2008 9:28:37 AM)

quote:

I see no happy ending for us or the Automakers.

Well, this morning Ford CEO Alan Mulally said Ford may not even need government handouts, and at the moment is seeking "only" a $9Billion "stand-by line of credit".

I have no idea how accurate or realistic that assessment may be, but if it is accurate and realistic, there is at least one bright spot in this.

(I do like my Ford Taurus!)




camille65 -> RE: Bail Out News! Auto execs have a plan! (12/2/2008 1:34:23 PM)

As part of its plan, Ford announced that the salary of Ford CEO Alan Mulally would be cut to $1 a year if Ford (F, Fortune 500) actually borrowed money from the government. When Mulally appeared before the House Financial Services Committee last month, he did not agree to the suggestion of such a paycut.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/02/news/companies/automakers_plans/index.htm?postversion=2008120210

And they are asking for more money than originally planned.

Oy vey.

Some of the ideas offered up are great, such as Ford selling its 5 corporate jets and GM selling some of theirs.

Ford sounds fairly hopeful, but I can't help but wonder if thats a facade.

Personally I'm glad all of my extended family is out of the auto biz and that I'm out of the Detroit area, its a mess.




cjan -> RE: Bail Out News! Auto execs have a plan! (12/2/2008 1:55:48 PM)

The big three auto makers had years and years to make the necessary changes to make cars that people wanted to buy. They also had all the time and capital needed to make necessary changes to make them more competitive and avoid bankruptcy. Instead, they ran teir companies into the ground, imo, knowingly, figuring the government would'nt allow them to fail.

I acknowledge that the high cost of labor has become, over the years, a significant part of the problem. But, it's a problem that can be resolved, in bankruptcy court.

The big three are bankrupt, not just financially, but also in the area of inovation and sound business practices. What good would "bailing themout" do ? It's just throwing tax dollars  down a rat hole, and just the beginning.  They'll be back in their private jets in a few months asking for more.

Bankruptcy will be painful and affect us all. However, imo, it's necessary pain to be endured with the hope and possibility of a viable restructuring of the American auto industry.

Management fucked up, rather irresponsibly. It's time for them all to go. 




MzMia -> RE: Bail Out News! Auto execs have a plan! (12/3/2008 4:51:06 AM)

Well, I have been looking over the Big 3's proposals.
Now they are requesting, 34B.
 
GM wants 18B
Ford only needs 9B
Chrysler needs 7B.

Automakers turnaround plans sent to Congress - Dec. 2, 2008

MzMia only needs 1Million.
[:D]




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