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RE: Strong Sub - 12/2/2008 7:41:13 PM

PeonForHer

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SofH,

Every time a man has an orgasm, he submits to being overwhelmed by feelings that are inspired by his feminine side - and the woman he's with at the time of his orgasm. That's any heterosexual man, vanilla or submissive. As a man who is prepared to be submissive beyond that orgasm, what does that say about you, if not that you have more strength than is usual?

It's full of contradictions - but that's the thrill of it all.

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Post #: 21

RE: Strong Sub - 12/2/2008 7:53:21 PM

chaos9071

Posts: 38
Joined: 5/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LPslittleclip

as a submissive in the army and a nurse it is a great relief to be able to submit to another. to be able to go from being in control and responsibility and the worry to releasing it all and simply enjoying how i make my M'Lady feel. she enjoys the fact i have a personality and opinions, respectfully stated of course. enjoy the gift of submission that you can give.

I know how you feel.

(in reply to LPslittleclip)

Post #: 22

RE: Strong Sub - 12/2/2008 7:55:49 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
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Ummm Am I reading that right? There are a whole lot of rutting bull males that won't take kindly to knowing that an orgasm comes from their feminine side. I don't think they are going to buy that one darlin.

This was a trick statement right? lol

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Post #: 23

RE: Strong Sub - 12/2/2008 8:04:36 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Ummm Am I reading that right? There are a whole lot of rutting bull males that won't take kindly to knowing that an orgasm comes from their feminine side. I don't think they are going to buy that one darlin.

This was a trick statement right? lol

It's roughly what Jung said. Long story.

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Post #: 24

RE: Strong Sub - 12/2/2008 8:32:10 PM

DMFParadox

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.... I think what Jung meant (and by correlation, probably what Peon meant too) is that it takes a 'feminine' side--or call it a mental model of femininity--to compare and evaluate the woman you're sexing to, and that connects to the other sensations that cause orgasm. It's not that the man is feeling like a woman; it's that his understanding of 'female' and attraction to that which is female is connected to orgasm. And for hetero men, that's a big "Well, DUH!"

I take no offense in your claiming that when I orgasm, I submit to myself; that's like saying I think, therefore I use my brain. Or that water is slightly damp. 'Inspired' by my 'feminine side' can be translated to 'women make me horny.' I think I can agree to that one. As for the rest, it's a non sequitur, though not necessarily a contradiction; you don't speak of strength prior to the last sentence, when referring to feminine inspiration, nor do you clarify if you're prepared to be still further submissive to yourself, which again is like being more 'woodish' if you're a tree. All thoughts, even submission to another--which I do not correlate directly to either strength or orgasm--must first follow from obedience to the process which generates them.

But to cut the nitpicky bullshit, I have to say that what gets me horny--and aids greatly in my orgasms--is when a girl does what I fucking tell her to without hesitation. Still, I'm in the wrong forum to complain about sweeping statements made of the opposite perspective too much, since it's the yin to my yang ^_^

But I do like to debate semantics... it's like the comic in Something Positive yesterday: complaints are the pulse of a geek. If they're not bitching about something obscure and complicated, they're dead. And I am so very much a geek. ^_^

edited because 'sequitur' has two u's and one e, not two e's and one u. And my inner grammar hitler is feeling his oats.

< Message edited by DMFParadox -- 12/2/2008 8:40:03 PM >

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Post #: 25

RE: Strong Sub - 12/2/2008 8:48:26 PM

ShaktiSama

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Being opinionated and assertive in your vanilla life has nothing to do with being a submissive in your private life. If it was impossible to reconcile those two things, my boykin would be doomed. (And he's always trying to talk me into letting him throw out all his pants and switch to wearing kilts only--is this a "strong sub" universal of some kind?)

*smiles* Anyway. Reconciling your submissive nature with other ideals of being a man can be difficult, I suppose? I don't know. Strength can manifest itself in many ways. I don't think that every human being who is gentle, yielding or sensitive to others should be classified automatically as "weak". Steel is stronger than iron and silk is stronger than steel precisely because it is better to bend under tension.

Far too often people seem to define "strength" solely in terms of negative masculine stereotypes. It isn't "weak" to be able to express your feelings or nurture another human being, for example, but our society often tries to convince men that if they open up their hearts or think of anyone but themselves that they might as well put on a dress...

Personally, I have no intention whatsoever of "living up" (or rather living down) to the stereotype for women in my culture, so I'm not particularly interested in making my sub live up to the stereotype for men. Yes, I like "strong" men, but I define "strength" on my own terms, not society's terms. I don't particularly like men who are unable to conduct themselves with restraint and compassion in any walk of life; this is especially true because the men I tend to get involved with usually have a lot of force at their command, and if they do not learn to martial that force with intelligence, restraint, and compassion for others, people will get hurt.

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Post #: 26

RE: Strong Sub - 12/2/2008 8:52:07 PM

MISTRESSKUMA

Posts: 226
Joined: 8/15/2007
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Some are strong, some aren't, OP.

There are weak male doms. There are weak male subs, it just depends on the male.

(in reply to ShaktiSama)

Post #: 27

RE: Strong Sub - 12/2/2008 8:55:24 PM

MISTRESSKUMA

Posts: 226
Joined: 8/15/2007
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ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

"Steel is stronger than iron and silk is stronger than steel precisely because it is better to bend under tension."

(in reply to ShaktiSama)

Post #: 28

RE: Strong Sub - 12/2/2008 8:57:17 PM

Lockit

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Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Ummm Am I reading that right? There are a whole lot of rutting bull males that won't take kindly to knowing that an orgasm comes from their feminine side. I don't think they are going to buy that one darlin.

This was a trick statement right? lol

It's roughly what Jung said. Long story.

Ohhhh that... lol... okay I see it... but let's just say... I don't follow a lot of that stuff. This explains a lot of my arguements with psych 101 students and why I wasn't invited back. I'll stay ignorant thank you... lol

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Post #: 29

RE: Strong Sub - 12/2/2008 10:56:09 PM

SlaveBlutarsky

Posts: 491
Joined: 10/10/2005
From: Upstate, NY
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Having met and become friends with a number of FemDoms, I've yet to meet one who doesn't like their men to be strong, confident and 'manly.' It's not an oddity at all and will probably greatly enhance your chances of meeting or successfully introducing a partner to the lifestyle.

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Strong for all, weak for one

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Post #: 30

RE: Strong Sub - 12/3/2008 3:35:42 AM

PeonForHer

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Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Ummm Am I reading that right? There are a whole lot of rutting bull males that won't take kindly to knowing that an orgasm comes from their feminine side. I don't think they are going to buy that one darlin.

This was a trick statement right? lol

It's roughly what Jung said. Long story.

Ohhhh that... lol... okay I see it... but let's just say... I don't follow a lot of that stuff. This explains a lot of my arguements with psych 101 students and why I wasn't invited back. I'll stay ignorant thank you... lol

No worries, Lockit. It would involve going up into my loft to find books I haven't looked at for fifteen years. I sure in hell can't be bothered to get into some dry, pseudo-psyche-intellectual discussion about D/s anyway. Life's too short. As indeed it is for the OP, who I think should just get on with what he enjoys being and doing, and sod the contradictions of it all.

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Post #: 31

RE: Strong Sub - 12/3/2008 6:02:38 AM

FullfigRIMAAM1

Posts: 1160
Joined: 11/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

Although, I am burdened with conflict as I am generally strong, assertive
and know what I want. I have strong dislikes, likes and opinions. But, at the
same time feel I must let these traits and feelings give way to the
hand of a deserving other.

I feel letting my strong will go, letting it be absorbed and
overruled by another creates an overarching energy
that raises both my hand and the hand of another
to amazing heights in a journey shared together.

I'm going to give you a slightly different response. When I've dated a strong, smart, submissive man, I've loved it.... He learned enough about me to trust my judgement in general, and he knew that no matter what, my goal at the end of fun, was to do no harm. That was the most fun relationship for me, because he shared ideas, and let me run with my thoughts and desires for experimentation, all the while, being respectful, kind, and never uttering "no."

On the other hand, I dated one who was conflicted, and I didn't find his approach coming from a strong place at all. Sure enough he was a strong personality, and had strong opinions. He even learned to bend to just about my every whim, but it wasn't without plenty of yucky mind games, etc... He desperately needed me at times... But than we had the "who controls whom games", and than he would withdraw, from guilt and having had his itch scratched. On one hand, I never made anyone do as much for me, so it was a fun ego trip for a while; on the other, I've never met a bigger pain in the ass and drama queen afraid to grow up, and just be.

quote:

ShaktiSama
Far too often people seem to define "strength" solely in terms of negative masculine stereotypes. It isn't "weak" to be able to express your feelings or nurture another human being, for example, but our society often tries to convince men that if they open up their hearts or think of anyone but themselves that they might as well put on a dress...

Personally, I have no intention whatsoever of "living up" (or rather living down) to the stereotype for women in my culture, so I'm not particularly interested in making my sub live up to the stereotype for men. Yes, I like "strong" men, but I define "strength" on my own terms, not society's terms. I don't particularly like men who are unable to conduct themselves with restraint and compassion in any walk of life

Amen! M

< Message edited by FullfigRIMAAM1 -- 12/3/2008 6:28:33 AM >

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The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands.-Robert M. Persig

Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence Erich Fromm

(in reply to SleightofHand)

Post #: 32

RE: Strong Sub - 12/3/2008 7:35:49 AM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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On the other hand, I dated one who was conflicted, and I didn't find his approach coming from a strong place at all.

That reminds me, FFRIM, of a point that I've been feeling ought to be made for a long while now, in relation not just to OP here but that of certain other recent examples.

To me, certain subs have appeared here who are clearly going through some kind of turmoil. I can relate to this because I had it myself only recently. There seems to be conflict in them and I know full well that this can be quite painful at times.

I'm not remotely directing this at you yourself but at the board generally: I've often found myself hoping that "newbie subs" who exhibit signs of this sort of conflict could be cut a little more slack. After all, they might just resolve their conflicts and become not undesirable subs in the end.

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Post #: 33

RE: Strong Sub - 12/3/2008 8:22:06 AM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
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I never want a weak submissive. My male sub is very strong, mentally and physically. That is the kind of submissive that I find the most attractive. Sometimes he has to curb his tongue as he was a master in the past and he was used to voicing his opinions and desires very loudly and in a demanding way. Not anymore, that lifestyle is behind him. So everyone once in awhile I have to jerk his chain to remind him of his role in this relationship.

There are no written rules that say a submissive cannot be strong. Not many want a weak, wimpy, groveling fool.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to SleightofHand)

Post #: 34

RE: Strong Sub - 12/3/2008 11:08:04 AM

MistressFaye1

Posts: 276
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsStarlett

I always wanted that bumper sticker "My sub can beat up your dom."

I know someone that makes bumperstickers. I am going to have him make me this one if you don't mind. I love it!

OP... what fun is it to train, challenge, and keep the Domme juices flowing!!! Taming the naughty...yummy!

Ms. Faye

_____________________________

You can put away your masquerade
You won't ever have to be afraid of Me
Open up your eyes and see what is in store
I must the One that you are searching for.

(in reply to MsStarlett)

Post #: 35

RE: Strong Sub - 12/3/2008 12:45:42 PM

ElanSubdued

Posts: 1511
Status: offline

SleightofHand,

There are many attributes of strength: strong character, loyalty, honesty, physical prowess, mental prowess, tenacity, compassion, knowledge, etc. In the right context and when applied appropriately, I see nothing negative or un-submissive about any of these. And gee, when asked and/or mutual chemistry has taken its course, I've overpowered a domme and she was very pleased by this ability and initiative. I think you're confusing submission with a lower status, physical weakness, or weakness of the mind. A desire to serve and to acknowledge someone else's leadership skill does not, in and of itself, imply weakness. Indeed, to serve effectively often requires a great degree of strength in many areas. As others have already posted, dommes (and people in general) find various kinds of strength very attractive in their partners.

Elan.

(in reply to SleightofHand)

Post #: 36

RE: Strong Sub - 12/3/2008 1:11:27 PM

DrkJourney

Posts: 1917
Joined: 5/6/2007
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IMO subs/slaves are far from weak. They are strong warriors. I wouldn't want some wimp....

omg de ja vu, could've sworn I've said this before......LOL

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Post #: 37

RE: Strong Sub - 12/3/2008 1:44:10 PM

FullfigRIMAAM1

Posts: 1160
Joined: 11/20/2008
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quote:

To me, certain subs have appeared here who are clearly going through some kind of turmoil. I can relate to this because I had it myself only recently. There seems to be conflict in them and I know full well that this can be quite painful at times

Agreed that we all grow at our own pace, and it would be nice if we could be supported by a gentle hand along the way. There is the problem in approach, maybe the exception, though some days more like the rule, that those who need a kind hand most, behave as if they will bite it off once you lend them one.

I try on most days to believe folks, and give them the benefit of the doubt, in terms of needing genuine information, and a chance to show they are decent. Than, a few years in, the boy I mentioned above would still call me desperately, I would still be trying to assuage his guilt, trying to help resolve his conflicts (all the while refusing to get professional help), and many many broken promises by wankers, and I, like many other dominas, start to behave like humans who have the survival instinct. M

_____________________________

The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands.-Robert M. Persig

Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence Erich Fromm

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 38

RE: Strong Sub - 12/3/2008 2:25:43 PM

slavekal

Posts: 1486
Joined: 7/20/2004
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Nothing incongruous at all about being strong and submissive.

The Courage to Submit The Guide for the Submissive Male Seeking a Dominant Woman
by Wallace Vernor

http://www.lulu.com/content/5043162

(in reply to SleightofHand)

Post #: 39

RE: Strong Sub - 12/3/2008 7:13:17 PM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1

quote:

To me, certain subs have appeared here who are clearly going through some kind of turmoil. I can relate to this because I had it myself only recently. There seems to be conflict in them and I know full well that this can be quite painful at times
Agreed that we all grow at our own pace, and it would be nice if we could be supported by a gentle hand along the way. There is the problem in approach, maybe the exception, though some days more like the rule, that those who need a kind hand most, behave as if they will bite it off once you lend them one.

I try on most days to believe folks, and give them the benefit of the doubt, in terms of needing genuine information, and a chance to show they are decent. Than, a few years in, the boy I mentioned above would still call me desperately, I would still be trying to assuage his guilt, trying to help resolve his conflicts (all the while refusing to get professional help), and many many broken promises by wankers, and I, like many other dominas, start to behave like humans who have the survival instinct. M

Oh dear. Yes, I had a feeling you'd say something like that, FFRIM. All I can say - rather weakly, I know - is, I don't blame you or any other, but what a shame.

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Post #: 40

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