RE: New to lifestyle

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MsMillgrove -> RE: New to lifestyle (12/3/2008 2:23:50 PM)
I notice the OP asked where to go in a "social setting" and wondered why he is looking in social settings for women to teach him. Most of the femdoms I know in the his geographic area are presenting workshops, arranging munches and play parties, helping to maintain the dungeon(s) and participating as presenters or observers at discussions and demos. As the second poster commented the choices in the LA are mind-boggling. Even the leather boys allow women to attend their public meetings (meets offering solid info and advice with some of the most trusted, knowledgeable femdoms in attendance). Yet, I also recognize from my own CM mail, how many L.A. males do Not want to venture into any local event. It doesn't matter how much they might learn or what great ladies they'd meet--the idea of anything related to the bdsm "community" is a big turn-off. (and no they're not citing job-related privacy concerns) It is the easiest way to find play partners and explore a wide variety of kink interests with minimum commitment, but it's also the one idea that few newbies seem to think is a good path. Why is that? (and of course we eliminate the 'poser' or wannabe or fantasy only types.. I am speaking of men who seem genuinely interested in meeting dommes)

Opalescence -> RE: New to lifestyle (12/4/2008 8:19:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover quote: ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian Reach the destination within before seeking it without, for being open and handy with erotic parlor tricks isn't enough. Great rhetoric, but not very relevant. I cannot believe that anyone (including you, or me for that matter) reached any destination before venturing out into the world of BDSM. And why isn't it enough... because it's not enough for you? quote: From my experience, those who wish to take D/s seriously are still rare birds; they dream in intensity, and tend to be looking for something more specific. Who says he's interested in taking D/s seriously? The OP didn't mention anything like that at all. quote: A young male "explorer" who professes to be an open-minded switch with a willing heinie is unwittingly joining the slush pile of countless other disposable drones. Get past the idea of building up a throne of knowledge and know what propels you. That is what's important. A young male "scholar" who professes to be able to divine the needs of complete strangers via the computer is unwittingly joining the slush pile of countless other disposable cyber Dominants. Get past the idea that you have developed a throne of knowledge that propels others. Or that you know what is (or should be) important to them. John Yikes! Mr. Rover had someone piss in his cheerios. One of his comments: "Get past the idea that you have developed a throne of knowledge that propels others. Or that you know what is (or should be) important to them." I don't know....I have a cult like fascination with him...I sent him a boiled bunny for Christ sake (see picture). He must be doing something right. :D I am a tad biased though. ....On a slightly different note. Rhetoric; you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. Princess Bride, anyone?

DesFIP -> RE: New to lifestyle (12/4/2008 8:29:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover quote: ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian quote: ORIGINAL: Rover Great rhetoric, but not very relevant. Hi Rover, Oh yes, of course. Let me add in the (obviously needed) disclaimer: What I share here is an opinion based upon my experiences, as all opinions shared here tend to be. Read with caution! And I'm saying that your opinion is logically flawed and realistically challenged. But it's yours to have. John Actually Rover, I thought your post was amazingly restrained. I read ME's one twue way and thought "psychobabble". Not a helpful word in the post. And you're right that most people aren't interested in being twue slaves or whatever. They just want a little extra for added enjoyment on Saturday night after a week at work, nights doing housework, um rearing, lawn raking, Christmas shopping etc. Hell even for those of us in a power dynamic, after a busy week we look forward to some extra special slap & tickle on the weekend also.

Rover -> RE: New to lifestyle (12/4/2008 9:01:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Opalescence quote: A young male "explorer" who professes to be an open-minded switch with a willing heinie is unwittingly joining the slush pile of countless other disposable drones. Get past the idea of building up a throne of knowledge and know what propels you. That is what's important. quote: A young male "scholar" who professes to be able to divine the needs of complete strangers via the computer is unwittingly joining the slush pile of countless other disposable cyber Dominants. Get past the idea that you have developed a throne of knowledge that propels others. Or that you know what is (or should be) important to them. John Yikes! Mr. Rover had someone piss in his cheerios. One of his comments: "Get past the idea that you have developed a throne of knowledge that propels others. Or that you know what is (or should be) important to them." Is it possible that you did not notice that the passage you quoted were Marc's words, repeated back to him with a few relevant changes? Perhaps you should check the expiration date on the milk in his cereal before looking into my bowl. quote: I don't know....I have a cult like fascination with him...I sent him a boiled bunny for Christ sake (see picture). He must be doing something right. :D I am a tad biased though. I can understand how personal affections may cause you to want to run to someone's defense when you perceive that they are being unfairly maligned. I believe that it's commendable to stand up for a friend or loved one. But don't let that affection cause you to lose all objectivity. Even those that we care about are wrong at times, and defending them unconditionally at the expense of your own credibility does neither of you any good. quote: ....On a slightly different note. Rhetoric; you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. Princess Bride, anyone? One of the definitions of rhetoric is "insincere or grandiloquent language", which I believe was an accurate portrayal of the tripe Marc has spewed in this forum on more than a few occasions. None of us should have any expectation that what we say will escape the scrutiny and commentary of others when we post them on public forums such as this. If Marc (or you) are unprepared to accept that reality, then perhaps this is not an appropriate venue. I am admittedly far from being a scholar of the English language. However, I don't think it's fair to portray me as deficient in my vocabulary. It does far more to diminish your own credibility, than my perceived reputation. John

Rover -> RE: New to lifestyle (12/4/2008 9:08:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP Actually Rover, I thought your post was amazingly restrained. I can't say that I'm without sin, DesFIP. In the immortal words of Jimmy Carter... I have lusted in my heart (ie: the thought of being less restrained was enormously enjoyable). John

Opalescence -> RE: New to lifestyle (12/4/2008 9:17:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP quote: ORIGINAL: Rover quote: ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian quote: ORIGINAL: Rover Great rhetoric, but not very relevant. Hi Rover, Oh yes, of course. Let me add in the (obviously needed) disclaimer: What I share here is an opinion based upon my experiences, as all opinions shared here tend to be. Read with caution! And I'm saying that your opinion is logically flawed and realistically challenged. But it's yours to have. John Actually Rover, I thought your post was amazingly restrained. I read ME's one twue way and thought "psychobabble". Not a helpful word in the post. And you're right that most people aren't interested in being twue slaves or whatever. They just want a little extra for added enjoyment on Saturday night after a week at work, nights doing housework, um rearing, lawn raking, Christmas shopping etc. Hell even for those of us in a power dynamic, after a busy week we look forward to some extra special slap & tickle on the weekend also. You've shoved your foot in your mouth. Who are these 'most people'...and are you making decisions for them? Everyone has a one true way. Some are just a little more correct than others. By stating that 'most people' (meaning the majority) you've just stated what you believe as fact even if it does not pertain to all it apparently pertains to most. Just because you are biased and favor one poster over the other does not make his opinion (he never said the OP -had- to follow his thoughts or he'd burn in a fiery hell for all eternity) psychobabble. Now, to the to OP: You live in an amazing part of Cali. You have a million options when it comes to exploring. Socially try Club Hell. I know you said clubs were a pain but it's a pretty awesome place in LA. ^.^

Opalescence -> RE: New to lifestyle (12/4/2008 9:45:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover quote: ORIGINAL: Opalescence quote: A young male "explorer" who professes to be an open-minded switch with a willing heinie is unwittingly joining the slush pile of countless other disposable drones. Get past the idea of building up a throne of knowledge and know what propels you. That is what's important. quote: A young male "scholar" who professes to be able to divine the needs of complete strangers via the computer is unwittingly joining the slush pile of countless other disposable cyber Dominants. Get past the idea that you have developed a throne of knowledge that propels others. Or that you know what is (or should be) important to them. John Yikes! Mr. Rover had someone piss in his cheerios. One of his comments: "Get past the idea that you have developed a throne of knowledge that propels others. Or that you know what is (or should be) important to them." Is it possible that you did not notice that the passage you quoted were Marc's words, repeated back to him with a few relevant changes? Perhaps you should check the expiration date on the milk in his cereal before looking into my bowl. quote: I don't know....I have a cult like fascination with him...I sent him a boiled bunny for Christ sake (see picture). He must be doing something right. :D I am a tad biased though. I can understand how personal affections may cause you to want to run to someone's defense when you perceive that they are being unfairly maligned. I believe that it's commendable to stand up for a friend or loved one. But don't let that affection cause you to lose all objectivity. Even those that we care about are wrong at times, and defending them unconditionally at the expense of your own credibility does neither of you any good. quote: ....On a slightly different note. Rhetoric; you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. Princess Bride, anyone? One of the definitions of rhetoric is "insincere or grandiloquent language", which I believe was an accurate portrayal of the tripe Marc has spewed in this forum on more than a few occasions. None of us should have any expectation that what we say will escape the scrutiny and commentary of others when we post them on public forums such as this. If Marc (or you) are unprepared to accept that reality, then perhaps this is not an appropriate venue. I am admittedly far from being a scholar of the English language. However, I don't think it's fair to portray me as deficient in my vocabulary. It does far more to diminish your own credibility, than my perceived reputation. John I think your overall problem here Rover, is that you take things way out of context and into imaginary land, but pretend to be unbiased yourself. Speaking of tripe, you spew a constant negative stream of it in this forum to make you look like Uber Dom of the Universe. It's obvious you have an axe to grind with Marc and not surprisingly many others for reasons only you know. Acting like an argumentative know-it-all in bold type doesn't do your credibility any good, either. Give it a rest, seriously. I think most intelligent people can draw their own conclusions about the legitimacy of someone's opinion without your approval or disapproval, which is obviously biased, even though you pretend it's not.

Rover -> RE: New to lifestyle (12/4/2008 10:13:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Opalescence I think your overall problem here Rover, is that you take things way out of context and into imaginary land, but pretend to be unbiased yourself. First of all, I don't have a problem. Things are mighty fine over here. And second, I am not at all unbiased... I have my own biased opinions. Though while I am biased to my own point of view, I do try to be objective. In fact, admitting that I'm biased to my own point of view is part of being objective. quote: Speaking of tripe, you spew a constant negative stream of it in this forum to make you look like Uber Dom of the Universe. You're welcome to provide specific examples and take issue with them publicly in this forum if you disagree. Just as I have done on numerous occasions, and will continue to do. But unless you're willing and able to provide those specific examples, you're just engaging in additional rheotric (that would be insincere or grandiloquent language). Or if you prefer, it's sophistry. quote: It's obvious you have an axe to grind with Marc and not surprisingly many others for reasons only you know. I don't know Marc personally, or most of the other folks I may disagree with. I have no axe to grind with them personally. I don't take issue with people on these forums, I take issue with what they write. And I clearly identify why I take issue with what they've written, in a specific and detailed manner (which is considerably more than you have done). So it's just not intellectually honest to say that those reasons are known only to me. If it seems as though I frequently take issue with what Marc says, it's only because what Marc says frequently is at odds with the factual world as I know it. quote: Acting like an argumentative know-it-all in bold type doesn't do your credibility any good, either. I don't know it all, just what I know. And I tend to avoid topics and threads that either don't interest me, or in which I don't know enough to contribute to the debate. So it can reasonably be assumed that when I do post, it is about something in which I believe myself to be fairly well versed. Doing so may give me the appearance of "knowing it all" because I limit myself to those topics in which I do know quite a bit. Marc may learn that to be a valuable practice as well. quote: Give it a rest, seriously. I think most intelligent people can draw their own conclusions about the legitimacy of someone's opinion without your approval or disapproval, which is obviously biased, even though you pretend it's not. People are here to interact... to offer their opinions and read those of others. If you're not happy with some of those opinions, or my opinion, the onus is on you to avoid it (not for me to cease giving it). Perhaps you are better suited to purchasing space on a local billboard, where your opinion can be shared publicly without critical commentary. Unless someone rents space on an adjacent billboard. Dang, you're screwed. Maybe public forums are not for you? John

Opalescence -> RE: New to lifestyle (12/4/2008 11:31:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover quote: ORIGINAL: Opalescence I think your overall problem here Rover, is that you take things way out of context and into imaginary land, but pretend to be unbiased yourself. First of all, I don't have a problem. Things are mighty fine over here. And second, I am not at all unbiased... I have my own biased opinions. Though while I am biased to my own point of view, I do try to be objective. In fact, admitting that I'm biased to my own point of view is part of being objective. quote: Speaking of tripe, you spew a constant negative stream of it in this forum to make you look like Uber Dom of the Universe. You're welcome to provide specific examples and take issue with them publicly in this forum if you disagree. Just as I have done on numerous occasions, and will continue to do. But unless you're willing and able to provide those specific examples, you're just engaging in additional rheotric (that would be insincere or grandiloquent language). Or if you prefer, it's sophistry. quote: It's obvious you have an axe to grind with Marc and not surprisingly many others for reasons only you know. I don't know Marc personally, or most of the other folks I may disagree with. I have no axe to grind with them personally. I don't take issue with people on these forums, I take issue with what they write. And I clearly identify why I take issue with what they've written, in a specific and detailed manner (which is considerably more than you have done). So it's just not intellectually honest to say that those reasons are known only to me. If it seems as though I frequently take issue with what Marc says, it's only because what Marc says frequently is at odds with the factual world as I know it. quote: Acting like an argumentative know-it-all in bold type doesn't do your credibility any good, either. I don't know it all, just what I know. And I tend to avoid topics and threads that either don't interest me, or in which I don't know enough to contribute to the debate. So it can reasonably be assumed that when I do post, it is about something in which I believe myself to be fairly well versed. Doing so may give me the appearance of "knowing it all" because I limit myself to those topics in which I do know quite a bit. Marc may learn that to be a valuable practice as well. quote: Give it a rest, seriously. I think most intelligent people can draw their own conclusions about the legitimacy of someone's opinion without your approval or disapproval, which is obviously biased, even though you pretend it's not. People are here to interact... to offer their opinions and read those of others. If you're not happy with some of those opinions, or my opinion, the onus is on you to avoid it (not for me to cease giving it). Perhaps you are better suited to purchasing space on a local billboard, where your opinion can be shared publicly without critical commentary. Unless someone rents space on an adjacent billboard. Dang, you're screwed. Maybe public forums are not for you? John In reference to "Doing so may give me the appearance of "knowing it all" because I limit myself to those topics in which I do know quite a bit. Marc may learn that to be a valuable practice as well." Who says he hasn't? Further, since you admit you don't know him personally, I doubt you can measure what he knows specifically on a message board. It wasn't too long ago in this thread you were saying that it's inappropriate to "divine the needs to strangers on the internet" but it's okay for you to "divine the experience of strangers on the internet"? Talk about being intellectually dishonest...and then some. No need to avoid anything, I believe I'm sharing my opinions about you right back at ya. I'm sharing my opinion that you come across as pompous, rather than just adding to productive dialog. I hope you can stand up to that public scrutiny, too. Like I said, I think people can think for themselves without constant thread derailing Rover commentary.

Rover -> RE: New to lifestyle (12/4/2008 11:55:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Opalescence In reference to "Doing so may give me the appearance of "knowing it all" because I limit myself to those topics in which I do know quite a bit. Marc may learn that to be a valuable practice as well." Who says he hasn't? I do... in my admittedly biased but objective opinion. Some may agree with me, some may disagree with me. I'll put you in the latter category. quote: Further, since you admit you don't know him personally, I doubt you can measure what he knows specifically on a message board. I never claimed to be able to measure what he knows. I said that I have often taken issue with what he writes. Either you do not read what I write very carefully, you don't comprehend it very well, or I haven't said it plainly enough to be understood (though I cannot imagine that to be the case as I said "I don't take issue with people on these forums, I take issue with what they write"). quote: It wasn't too long ago in this thread you were saying that it's inappropriate to "divine the needs to strangers on the internet" but it's okay for you to "divine the experience of strangers on the internet"? Talk about being intellectually dishonest...and then some. I can judge what people say, and conclude with reasonable certainty whether that is consistent with someone who is experienced at many things... business, law, footall, golf... and BDSM. That is entirely different than divining the needs of anyone other than yourself. If you don't know or understand the difference, please say so and I will explain it in great detail. quote: No need to avoid anything, I believe I'm sharing my opinions about you right back at ya. I'm sharing my opinion that you come across as pompous, rather than just adding to productive dialog. Your opinion is noted. quote: I hope you can stand up to that public scrutiny, too. Like I said, I think people can think for themselves without constant thread derailing Rover commentary. I regularly stand up to plenty of public scrutiny, in many aspects of my life. Including (but not limited to) BDSM. Perhaps that familiarity is why I don't feel the need to send someone else out on my behalf to defend me. If your results fall short of expectations, should I next anticipate a call from his mommy? John

Opalescence -> RE: New to lifestyle (12/4/2008 1:34:47 PM)
I'll admit I'm biased, yes, but I'm here of my own accord, because I've been spurred not by his "rhetoric" but yours, ironically.

Rover -> RE: New to lifestyle (12/4/2008 1:42:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Opalescence I'll admit I'm biased, yes, but I'm here of my own accord, because I've been spurred not by his "rhetoric" but yours, ironically. You've mentioned this on several occasions, and I have invited you to provide specific quotations of mine (as I have done with Marc) that you take issue with, and why. And at risk of becoming redundant, I will invite you once again to do so. At some point I'll have to conclude that you're unable to do so, and simply displeased with the way Marc has acquitted himself during these discussions. If that's the case, please do take it up with Marc. Not with me. John

Opalescence -> RE: New to lifestyle (12/4/2008 2:54:42 PM)
That's not the case, I'm talking about you. This thread is all the example someone needs to see you're full of it. Case closed, though I'm certain you'll have something else to say.

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