What's the difference between Gor and TPE? (Full Version)

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Tashee -> What's the difference between Gor and TPE? (12/3/2008 6:58:38 AM)

Hello all, I'm wondering what the difference between a Gorean and a TPE relationship is. I mean real-life relationships and how they work in day-to-day needs, not as someone has written in books. I am looking for a very controlled life with no limits. Should I be looking for a particular "style" of Dom?




DesFIP -> RE: What's the difference between Gor and TPE? (12/3/2008 7:04:35 AM)

I'm curious as to why you are looking for TPE with no limits when you're profile says you want a DaddyDom and that you don't know what your limits are since you have no experience. Quite the disconnect there.

What happens if you agree to a no limit relationship and then discover you can't handle pain, or needles, or humiliation or ...? You going to go through with it repeatedly while resenting him each time?

You appear to be having sub frenzy and when dealing with that it is not the best time to get into things you don't have any experiential knowledge of.




leadership527 -> RE: What's the difference between Gor and TPE? (12/3/2008 7:11:38 AM)

I have to agree with everything Des said.  But, to answer (in blutnly simple terms) your original question.  GOR, as it is practiced in real life, is more of a life philosophy that may or may not contain aspects of dominance and submission.  If it does so, it'll be a fairly extreme amount of authority transferred between the slave and the master.  In that sense, it is like BDSM based TPE relationships but that's about the only overlap there is.  My advice.. if you haven't read the gor books yet... at least 5 of em... then don't worry about what gor is for now... just pickup some books as you are able and read... it'll either appeal to you or it wont.  In the mean time, there is much to be said for exploring any path you choose to set your foot on one step at a time.  My wife and I practice a TPE-ish sort of marraige, but it didn't start out that way.




sunshinemiss -> RE: What's the difference between Gor and TPE? (12/3/2008 7:18:14 AM)

Hello Tashee,
Might want to do a search or read this thread.
good luck,
sunshine




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: What's the difference between Gor and TPE? (12/3/2008 7:25:20 AM)

I would reinforce the idea that diving right into a TPE (total power exchange) relationship is probably not in yours or the dominant individual's best interests. TPE actually works -best-, IME, when the individuals involved gradually extend the scope of authority over a period of time.

If you're looking for the opportunity to explore TPE at some point, though, you -are- going to be looking for a particular style of dominant. You're going to be looking for someone who is -interested- in having that kind of control over hir property, someone who has experience in managing behaviors, perhaps someone who is interested in micromanagement-style relationships (depending on how much active -control- you want to explore over day-to-day activities). You also want someone who has the resources to be able to maintain someone in a full-time position, where aspects of servitude may "wash over" into other areas of life.

As far as Gor -- Gor is one possibility for what you're looking for, but like anything else, it is not the only path. The difference between Gor and "TPE" is that Gorean philosophy is more of a recognition of the participant's beliefs about human nature, with or without the incorporation of slavery. Choosing to embrace slavery from a Gorean perspective also requires embracing the philosophies under which the concept of Gor exists... if any of the philosophical aspects are not suited to your temperment, you'd probably be better of finding a more suitable situation, rather than attempting to bend Gorean philosophy to your preferences and temperment--and the only way to find that out is to actually read the books, talk to people who practice Gorean philosophy on a day-to-day basis, and get a feel for those who practice it, and those who may ascribe to Gor, but who do not actually resonate with the ideas presented by Norman.




MadRabbit -> RE: What's the difference between Gor and TPE? (12/3/2008 9:07:59 AM)

It's something on par to the differences between the Catholic and Protestant churches




DarkQc -> RE: What's the difference between Gor and TPE? (12/3/2008 9:13:46 AM)

I concur with the comments offered previously in this thread. TPE is a very broad, generic concept while Gor is a very specific philosophy that often incorporates TPE. A decent analogy would be to think of TPE as wheat flour and cookies. Most cookies are made from wheat flour, but other ingredients are also necessary. Wheat flour can also be the basis for many other pastries, breadings, sauces, or even papier-mâché.




Rover -> RE: What's the difference between Gor and TPE? (12/3/2008 9:27:39 AM)

The differences between Gor and TPE that I often cite are:
 
1.  Gor is basically gender based Dominance.
 
2.  Gor generally does not value B/D and S/M as activities pursued for their pleasure alone.
 
3.  Gor includes a general uniformity of philosophy that values adherence to a common set of principles, social structure and group identity as outlined in the series of John Norman books.
 
4.  Gor, like the modern interpretations of "Old Guard", has a common reliance upon being "strict" or "harsh".
 
There are others, but that's a start in my view.
 
John




blacksword404 -> RE: What's the difference between Gor and TPE? (12/3/2008 4:46:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

The differences between Gor and TPE that I often cite are:
 
1.  Gor is basically gender based Dominance.
 


This one is totally wrong. It's as gender based as who naturally tends to have more physical strength. If a free woman is strong enough to take a man as her slave then he is hers. As is the case for all free.




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: What's the difference between Gor and TPE? (12/3/2008 5:25:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

This one is totally wrong. It's as gender based as who naturally tends to have more physical strength. If a free woman is strong enough to take a man as her slave then he is hers. As is the case for all free.


Actually, Gor -is- gender-based. Having lived as a Free Woman with slaves, I learned quickly that it isn't a matter of physical strength when a woman owns slaves. A free woman can claim a male slave if he accepts her authority over him. Typically, though, a free woman answers to a man -somewhere-. Very few Gorean women live independently. Even if a Gorean woman is not owned, she must answer to her father, her free companion, her brother, or her oldest male relative. It is the reason that my Darling and I no longer claim ourselves as a Gorean household, though we have the background, experience, and the house was left to us by a man who was living as a full-time Gorean. When there was no longer a male leader for our household, it moved us outside the -fundamental- philosophical standpoint of Gor, which is that men rule. People can fudge almost anything, but, in my mind, it is pretty rude to claim to embrace an author's concept and then twist it around until it bears no resemblance to the original writings. Therefore, when we no longer had male leadership, we no longer called ourselves "Gor".




thornhappy -> RE: What's the difference between Gor and TPE? (12/3/2008 5:48:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

The differences between Gor and TPE that I often cite are:
 
1.  Gor is basically gender based Dominance.
 


This one is totally wrong. It's as gender based as who naturally tends to have more physical strength. If a free woman is strong enough to take a man as her slave then he is hers. As is the case for all free.

Male slaves generally don't get far on the Gorean board.  You can search for a lot of threads on that topic.

thornhappy




Rover -> RE: What's the difference between Gor and TPE? (12/3/2008 6:05:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

The differences between Gor and TPE that I often cite are:
 
1.  Gor is basically gender based Dominance.
 


This one is totally wrong. It's as gender based as who naturally tends to have more physical strength. If a free woman is strong enough to take a man as her slave then he is hers. As is the case for all free.


Given the fact that women are basically not physically superior to men, I stand by my statement.  If I had said that it was universally gender based you might have a beef.  But given that I did not... well... where's the beef?
 
John




barelynangel -> RE: What's the difference between Gor and TPE? (12/3/2008 6:29:27 PM)

You are trying to compare Gorean slavery to that of  TPE and its not plausible there is no comparison because in order to compare the slaveries, you have to first identify Gorean and to do that, slavery is not a part of such a concept. Therefore, slavery is an existance of a woman in terms of Gor because of the Man being Gorean, he then holds her to certain expectations and standards BECAUSE his identification and understanding of what being Gorean means guides him in his beliefs of womemn and how he allows them to exist in his life. Its also a very mastery and enslavement based concept that strips the consensuality concept of what most seem to rely on from the choices a girl may have if that mastery and enslavement is accomplished.  Its also a very sexual and sexuality based slavery, women are slaves usually whose complete purpose is to serve the ultimate pleasure of Men (not just Master)  and this is accomplished in many different ways, who are very primitive and very sexual in nature.

To me, comparing Gorean slavery to TPE is two very different focuses and aspects, one is created from a concept outside the slavery (i.e., a Man is Gorean without the slave - a slave is held in Gorean slavery because of the Man) and the other is created because of the slave as you need a slave to exchange power i believe.

The duty of a Gorean's slave is absolute obedience and exquisite beauty and the former usually brings about the latter.  A Gorean Man once told me 
The beauty of a slave girl is
beauty which extends to everything.
There is a sense in which she is kept, as slave,
to bring beauty into the lives of Men
who might neglect it otherwise. 

Many don't like the concept of Men in slavery -- however Gorean slavery is all about the men and not just the Man even though your Master is your ultimate focus. 
 
So all in all, its the Man who owns the woman who creates the Gorean aspect of the slavery its Men she exists among as slave.  If you don't have a Gorean man holding you in slavery you well aren't and won't be a Gorean slave or live in Gorean slavery until you do.  There are mindsets a Gorean slave learns and lives by because of how she is held by a Gorean Man and because of same.  These mindsets are ones you find a lot in most Gorean slaves because Gor usually has some pretty standard perceptions, understandings and definitions and views of people and themselves and that trickles down to the slavery and the mindsets created.  Its usually a perception of her place not only with her Master but among other Free as a whole, its a status of being more so than an individual state of being.  A Gorean slave perceives the world from her knees because that is the only way she is allowed to do so.  If you observe Gorean slavery -- hell if you live it even -- much of it is not a fair concept, its not a respect concept, and its not a equality concept, its simply a He is Master I am slave mindset that isnt easy for many to understand why a woman would need to live in such a way to a Man and well yes, Men in general.

Its a type of slavery that is defined by the Man because of who he is and what he identifies as and applies to his life.  There is a standard and expectations of Gorean slaves when they are among others that is pretty traditional throughout Gorean Free.  But in the individual relationships, unless you know the generality of how Gorean Men perceive things on a very BASIC level, most people would not necessarily be able to decipher a Gorean slavery from a i would say extreme TPE concept.

This is barely touching the surface of the concept of Gorean slavery, but if you really want to learn it, find a Gorean man to become a slave to and you will understand it not just go through the motions of same.  If that makes sense.  To understand Gorean slavery -- you have to live it, otherwise you are simply trying to interpret concepts observed or read about.
 
It is really very simple lol i promise despite the length of my post. The two ideas may cross and look alike doesn't mean that the make up and reason for being is the same and therefore, the concepts are very different, or they may not be because the concepts that create the two are similar. However, the biggest concept of Gorean slavery that is and always will be different from TPE is the concept of Gor and identification of Gor.   Also, Gorean slavery is not a "no limits" slavery -- its not really thought of in that aspect or shouldn't be because its misleading, it is a uncompromising slavery on many levels.

angel




blacksword404 -> RE: What's the difference between Gor and TPE? (12/3/2008 7:14:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW


quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

This one is totally wrong. It's as gender based as who naturally tends to have more physical strength. If a free woman is strong enough to take a man as her slave then he is hers. As is the case for all free.


Actually, Gor -is- gender-based. Having lived as a Free Woman with slaves, I learned quickly that it isn't a matter of physical strength when a woman owns slaves. A free woman can claim a male slave if he accepts her authority over him. Typically, though, a free woman answers to a man -somewhere-. Very few Gorean women live independently. Even if a Gorean woman is not owned, she must answer to her father, her free companion, her brother, or her oldest male relative. It is the reason that my Darling and I no longer claim ourselves as a Gorean household, though we have the background, experience, and the house was left to us by a man who was living as a full-time Gorean. When there was no longer a male leader for our household, it moved us outside the -fundamental- philosophical standpoint of Gor, which is that men rule. People can fudge almost anything, but, in my mind, it is pretty rude to claim to embrace an author's concept and then twist it around until it bears no resemblance to the original writings. Therefore, when we no longer had male leadership, we no longer called ourselves "Gor".



I disagree that it's men rule. It's that the strong rule and typically men will end up on top. But not always. Which is part of what he is saying in his books.

It's the philosophical beliefs that make you Gorean not whether or not a man is leading.




blacksword404 -> RE: What's the difference between Gor and TPE? (12/3/2008 7:41:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

The differences between Gor and TPE that I often cite are:
 
1.  Gor is basically gender based Dominance.
 


This one is totally wrong. It's as gender based as who naturally tends to have more physical strength. If a free woman is strong enough to take a man as her slave then he is hers. As is the case for all free.

Male slaves generally don't get far on the Gorean board.  You can search for a lot of threads on that topic.

thornhappy



Well your right there. Lmao




pompeii -> RE: What's the difference between Gor and TPE? (12/3/2008 8:22:56 PM)

Wow. I didn't know any of this. Yikes. There's some tough love out there!




xBullx -> RE: What's the difference between Gor and TPE? (12/3/2008 8:38:43 PM)

Greetings Tashee,

Let's start off by clarifying a few things; being a Gorean isn't simply about the master/slave relationship or a "power exchange". To begin with it is a philosophical pursuit and or social ideology.  Within these philosophies both man and woman are challenged to an understanding their mental and physical nature. It is the intention that in discovering the concepts within the novels you might discern some personal truths about yourself that have not been corrupted or manipulated by the western puritan and his societal perversions.  At least this is the Gorean's perspective of his life; right or wrong his philosophy is his and he stands resolute in his convictions. If this is the kind of man you seek to please than further study on your behalf is well advised.

You asked if you should be looking for a specific kind of man. Well of course you should; and while I am not going to pretend to know what direction you should lean I do have a good understanding of what it is that defines the Gorean man. No I'm not going to go into a deep and time consuming description of what it is to be Gorean. If that is really important to you there are countless pages of discussion within the Gorean forum on this site. But I will take a bit of time for a summary of sorts.

You need to understand that when you encounter a man that lives applying the Gorean ideals he will generally maintain the sort of character that is hopefully seen as strong, commanding, practical and independent. His life is built on duty to his home, family and principles; he is most unwilling to compromise his honor, integrity or morality. The fact is the majority of Gorean free adhere to the morality of masters. A Gorean man aspires to maintain a personal state of sovereignty and that being said, not only encourages the same in other men but expects them to seek the same.

Take note that I’ve scarcely mentioned male/female interaction to this point. But to somewhat usher your understanding of the Gorean frame of mind concerning this subject I’ll inform you that Goreans aren’t exclusively driven by the master slave relationship. A Gorean may also choose to take a free companion; he may take a slave, perhaps both. It is primarily a male driven way of life, but that doesn’t mean that females are irrelevant or insignificant. It is a primary concern that the Gorean understands his or her own personal nature and acknowledges and embraces obvious differences. It is often a Gorean perception that the western way of thinking dismisses and in fact attempts to pretend these difference do not exist, insisting to create a false equality and chastises the concept of recognized difference.

The preceding is a brief overview of my synopsis of the Gorean man, I don’t pretend to speak for those other than myself, but only myself and those in my charge. I can’t begin to advise you on the context of other TPE relationships, but I hope my explanation here helps you and maybe a few others understand at least part of the query you have presented.
Good luck in your quest.

edited because: I'm a warrior[sm=club.gif], not a scribe[sm=book.gif]...

[sm=dunno.gif]




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