What car models should Detroit phase out or keep?

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What car models should Detroit phase out or keep? - 12/4/2008 7:25:52 PM

Vendaval

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Dear CM peoples,

What makes and models from the American Big 3 carmakers would you like to see stay or go? Do think some models are completely out-dated and obsolete? Do some need fine tuning? How about a whole new product line? What would you like to buy from American car manufacturers?

"American autos worth saving and writing off"

By Jacqueline Mitchell

"To find Detroit's cars worth saving and worth writing off we looked at sales for the first 10 months of the year compared with the same period a year ago. Vehicles with the biggest sales gains so far this year and in 2007 (as well as 2006, if the car was in production) were considered. Vehicles that had sales losses greater than the industry average of 14.6% so far this year and sales losses in the previous two years were considered worth writing off.

Bad as things are for the Hummer, they're worse for some other models.

Just as the love affair with big SUVs like the Hummer began to slip, so it was for mid-size SUVs such as the Chevrolet Trailblazer and Ford Explorer. Both had been around since the 1990s, but more stylish crossover vehicles like the Buick Enclave, introduced in 2007, pulled away consumers."

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/777/american-autos-worth-saving-and-writing-off/

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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RE: What car models should Detroit phase out or keep? - 12/4/2008 7:47:35 PM

Roselaure

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I would like to see an extremely reliable, moderately priced, high gas mileage, comfortable decent looking sedan.

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Once conform, once do what other people do because they do it, and lethargy steals over all the finer nerves and faculties of the soul.
-Virginia Woolf

(in reply to Vendaval)

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RE: What car models should Detroit phase out or keep? - 12/4/2008 7:50:13 PM

Slavehandsome

Posts: 382
Joined: 9/19/2004
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How about we discontinue the cars that run on gas?
www.waterpoweredcar.com

(in reply to Roselaure)

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RE: What car models should Detroit phase out or keep? - 12/4/2008 8:05:39 PM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
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quote:

What would you like to buy from American car manufacturers?

The Taurus is a total keeper.

My 1994 model has 400K+ and is still going (and going and going and going......)

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RE: What car models should Detroit phase out or keep? - 12/4/2008 8:24:26 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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Well, I have liked GM cars through many years. I have owned many of them and am familiar with them. Now it is time to suck in their gut, so I would consider the following :

The base car has to be cheap. Steel is not that high but of course you have to watch the weight. Perhaps with a three cylinder engine. One of the first things to do though, in the design phase is to try to assure that the chassis design is compatible with alternative drive engines. Of course there are options, but the base model is with no tach, power nothing, cheap radio, and not much else except reliability. You want AC and touch responsive dash with full instrumentation, GPS and all that, it can be had, but is not included. It is a future beater with a heater. Offer a good warranty. It does not have to be so long, just conprehensive. Make sure you don't wreck your customers with high repair bills.

On the next level, and by not persuing this as fervently it could become a hit. A next level of cars, bigger, basically a V6 that should do at least 20 MPG. Still comes with nothing power unless you order it. It would be for certain people who carry alot of stuff in their car, larger familes and such. Even a station wagon model. I would also cut out all the other divisions, Buick, Cadillac whatever. These are all based on these next level cars and mainly differ in trim and a few other things, but not much. Just one model of each.

There is a need for pickup trucks. There is a need for vans. This need must be assessed instead of Chevy and Ford trying to make the pickup with the biggest engine, like a 7.4 L and all that. Very few people need that.

We need to sell what ALOT of people need, and of course can afford.

T

(in reply to Roselaure)

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RE: What car models should Detroit phase out or keep? - 12/4/2008 8:35:30 PM

OneMoreWaste

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I didn't even realize they still made the Trailblazer and Explorer. Gah.

Ford made a big mistake in clinging to the old Focus platform Stateside. They need to get the Euro Focus/Mazda3 platform and put out an inexpensive small car that's actually, like, from this century.
F-series- check. Mustang- check. Taurus, has potential, in dire need of a restyle. I think they're still cranking out Lincoln Towncars for the Limo trade. Dump the Lincoln truck/SUV/crossover turd parade. Gah. Euthanasia for the entire Mercury lineup.

Chevrolet- Cobalt, Corvette, Malibu. Kick all the trucks to GMC and stop fucking around with two brands of the same vehicle for no damned reason. They should have an enclosed-coupe version of the Sky/Solstice platform, whatever that was called. They need a minivan/family crossover that isn't a POS. Keep the Cobalt SS. A sport-compact is essential if you want to actually have customers ten years from now. Idiots.
Pontiac- Bring back the GTO, call the high-performance the GTO Judge, and give the regular version a V6 engine option. Keep the G6, give it a real name. Keep the Solstice. Tank the G5. Keep the Vibe.
Cadillac- the CTS and CTS-V are definitely keepers. Dump the crossover-wagon-thing. Either put some real effort into promoting the two-seat ragtop, or stop pissing away money on it. Keep the Escalade, add a hybrid option, dump all the 'slade variants. And for God's sake, get rid of the fucking alphabet-soup names. Sonovabitch.
Buick- Euthanasia. Move whatever the newest model is over to Chevy so they have a big car.

Dodge/Chrysler. What a cluster-fuck. They have, what, three vehicles that aren't trucks or some other truck-like appliance? The 300/Charger/Challenger platform is essential. The Ram & Dakota are essential. The Viper should stay. The minivan is essential, but desperately needs a facelift. They NEED a small car, even if they have to crib the platform from Mitsubishi or something. Cut Jeep back down to the basics, Wrangler + Grand Cherokee. Dump the frigging Sebring already, let the rental-car companies buy Toyotas.

Just my thoughts as a car guy, scientist, and all 'round genius

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RE: What car models should Detroit phase out or keep? - 12/4/2008 9:35:38 PM

masterBruce

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big cars that bun lots of gas

(in reply to Vendaval)

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RE: What car models should Detroit phase out or keep? - 12/5/2008 12:13:07 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
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From: New Hampshire
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Onemore, they won't get rid of the Mercury line, it's a *very* profitable line for Ford.
You see a lot of Mercury Grand Marquis on the road.
They don't make the Crown Vic anymore except for "fleet sales" so people only have one choice for a full sized, powerfull, rwd, comfortable, sedan in the $20-$25k range and the Mercury Mariner and Milan are *very* popular as well.
The F series of trucks are the best out there!
You can't leave the house without seeing a dozen of them.
They can drop the Towncar as it's been replaced by the MKS which I drive by the way.
And their new cars/crossovers are very nicelooking and get very good reviews like the Edge and the Flex.
All in all Ford has the best lineup of the three in my opinion.
G.M. should keep Cadillac, Chevrolet and GMC trucks.
The Buick has got to go!
Ninety percent of their customers will be dead in ten years anyway.
We're talking *OLD!* I think their median age customer is 75!
John McCain is too young to buy a Buick!
And Pontiacs are just plain ugly!
Chrysler also makes very good trucks in their Dodge line.
Definately keep those but work on getting the mpg up.
I'm not that familiar with their car line but they do have some nice looking ones.

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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: What car models should Detroit phase out or keep? - 12/5/2008 12:41:41 AM

FullfigRIMAAM1

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In a perfect world, I would own a hybrid taurus that gets 40+ miles/gallon, and a hybrid, 8 cylinder Mercury Mountaineer Premier that gets 30miles/gallon for the winters. The Hummers could disappear except for when/if the army needs them. M

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The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands.-Robert M. Persig

Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence Erich Fromm

(in reply to Vendaval)

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RE: What car models should Detroit phase out or keep? - 12/5/2008 12:52:51 AM

Vendaval

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About the average age of a Buick driver, I usually see folks over the age of 60 driving them. And the one younger person I knew who drove one got it from his folks while in college.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 10

RE: What car models should Detroit phase out or keep? - 12/5/2008 1:00:53 AM

FullfigRIMAAM1

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I love American cars, and am fairly annoyed by the bailing out of people who sold BS and went under, versus the people who actually produce something in this country. M

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The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands.-Robert M. Persig

Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence Erich Fromm

(in reply to Vendaval)

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RE: What car models should Detroit phase out or keep? - 12/5/2008 3:04:45 AM

SilverMark

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I love my Dodge Magnum! My next toy will be a Challenger! I have driven American cars since 2000 including an Olds Aurora and thought it was an excellent car as well as a Buick Rendezvous which must have been as great a driving suv as there has ever been.
If I could, after driving a friends new Cadillac CTS I would have one!...The cars we make here aren't bad, the fit and finish has improved 100% and the ride is so much better than most Japanese cars. Does that make up for the idiocy involved with the industry?NO! but, there are good cars made domestically. I hope they can make it but, I am old enough to remember when you were a Ford Man or a Chrysler Man....My father drove Cadillacs forever and loved each one...hope we don't lose them!

(in reply to FullfigRIMAAM1)

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RE: What car models should Detroit phase out or keep? - 12/5/2008 3:07:39 AM

LadyEllen

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From: Stourport-England
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I think bringing back the Model T would be good; make it a sort of cult thing, keep 'em cheap and there'll be one on every driveway across America

E

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RE: What car models should Detroit phase out or keep? - 12/5/2008 3:56:05 AM

NeedToUseYou

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From: None of your business
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My opinion on cars, is we go through to many revisions and never perfect the design.

If I was going to head a car company, here is what I'd do, I'd make a base model, that would be the base model for 10 years. Every 10 years I'd implement all the enhancements over the last ten years. While my cars would not be integrated with the newest features every year, they would be stable as hell, and CHEAP, as all hell. I have worked in a segment of the auto industry, making the all the lighting fixtures, headlights taillights, etc... And it costs an enormous amount to switch from one model to the next, a fricken fortune, an unnecessary fortune.

So, my idea, is the essential body, as in the structure, all the motors, any transmission, electrical, etc... would be built as a base model. There is only one base model, per vehicle class, as in one for cars, one for trucks, one for big diesel trucks. This model would not change for 10 years. However, instead of integrating the candy shell, the exterior of your car to the real car, that would be made seperate, and you'd get to select the top of your car. Now, that would be attached to the real base model via easy to access bolts, etc... So, let's say you bought a NTUY Model 1 car and after five years you said I'm sick of this car, I want a different one, instead of buying a new one, you'd buy a new top, and slap that on your same old Model 1. Everything you touched and saw in your new top would be new. And since I run Model 1's for ten years, and there is only 1 motor, 1 alternator, 1 set of brake pads, the cost of maintaining such a vehicle would be minimal, in addition since mechanics only have to become experts at 1 model every 10 years, they'd be gods at diagnosing and fixing them.

The main design premise besides the above, would be to make working on them, swapping parts etc, as simple as possible, and to make information on how to do everything to the car as widely available as possible.

That is what I'd do to GM, Ford, whatever.

(in reply to Vendaval)

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RE: What car models should Detroit phase out or keep? - 12/5/2008 4:33:01 AM

FullfigRIMAAM1

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My little sis who gets lost inside one, has a cadillac. I've always also loved the mustang, but for everyday, I like the Taurus comfort. I now drive an Explorer (I went to 6 cyl explorer, after 8 cyl mountaineer), because it is best in this season. The Mountaineer was awesome! There was almost no snow amount I couldn't just start it and roll over, I miss it. M

< Message edited by FullfigRIMAAM1 -- 12/5/2008 4:36:01 AM >

_____________________________

The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands.-Robert M. Persig

Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence Erich Fromm

(in reply to SilverMark)

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RE: What car models should Detroit phase out or keep? - 12/5/2008 10:15:59 AM

popeye1250

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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

About the average age of a Buick driver, I usually see folks over the age of 60 driving them. And the one younger person I knew who drove one got it from his folks while in college.

Ven, around here most of the people who drive Buicks were born in the Teddy Roosevelt or Woodrow Wilson administrations.
There were no "airports" then, they were called "fields."
Rudy Valle was in the "top 40."
Many "firetrucks" were still pulled by horses.
Hmm, might make a good historical thread.

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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: What car models should Detroit phase out or keep? - 12/5/2008 10:35:35 AM

Marc2b

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They should phase out the ones that don’t sell and keep the ones that do.

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RE: What car models should Detroit phase out or keep? - 12/5/2008 12:28:32 PM

Musicmystery

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As an aside, but an important aside, the consumer needs to step up and think.

People can get eight year car loans. 8 years! WTF? That's a mortgage, not a loan---the car owner is almost certainly going to be upside down on that loan, and all for an asset that will lose all of its value. I don't give a damn what the monthly payment might be, Bruce Williams was right--if you are financing an automobile for more than three years, you are buying a car you can ill afford.

And Detroit sells autos most people shouldn't buy. It could---but so far doesn't seem to want to.

(in reply to Vendaval)

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RE: What car models should Detroit phase out or keep? - 12/5/2008 12:37:56 PM

understeer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Slavehandsome

How about we discontinue the cars that run on gas?
www.waterpoweredcar.com

That site is so dumb I'm not even sure where to start...

I'd personally like to see more creativity and ingenuity in vehicle design. When I look from one car marque to the next I see the same basic, tired design with more flashy plastic crap on it to entice another idiot. I don't want fake wood-grain panels or plastic chrome accents. I think they look cheap anyway.

My basics are: solidly built, full instrumentation (no idiot lights), and less computer gadgetry. I have a cell phone that's perfectly capable of making calls, I don't need my car to do it as well. Nor do I need my car to integrate with my iPod when a simple aux-in could work for an iPod and a variety of other inputs. Save the R&D money for things that truly make a difference. Just as an example, I was interested in the 4-door Wranglers recently, but two things put me off. One is the gas mileage from the mediocre V6 and the other is the interior. I personally was very impressed at what VW has been able to do with the TDI engines in their cars and I think a small turbo diesel would have been a better choice for the Wrangler with the appropriate gearing. At the very least, they couldn't have done any worse with the mileage numbers. The interior was comfortable, but what's with the plastic chrome trim rings? They look fine on the showroom floor, but I can't help but believe that after a year or so of use, they're going to look worn and shabby. Plus I think they're simply a waste of petroleum resources. I'd much prefer a solid, functional, comfortable interior with more subtle styling accents and an emphasis on durability. It may not have the bling, but that's what the aftermarket parts are for, right?

< Message edited by understeer -- 12/5/2008 12:57:25 PM >

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RE: What car models should Detroit phase out or keep? - 12/5/2008 1:01:55 PM

mozartsfuneral

Posts: 103
Joined: 11/2/2008
Status: offline

Cars and or trucks that should be phased out.

Ford:

F250,350 and higher
push the sales of the Taurus (( formerly the Five Hundred )) ( they were idiots to pull it off the market to begin with )
Get rid of the Expedition and or Explorer or make them hybrids.

Mercury:
Make the Milan, Mariner, Sable and Grand Marquis and hybrids do away with the mountaineer.

GMC:
Invest in quality sedans, remodel and retool the entire GM line, and make lots of hybrids
better gas mileage is the key!!!

Dodge:
As much as i love the viper...i think it's time to do away with it. The charger and the magnum...
what use do people have for huge cars except the fact that they can afford them ( sometimes)
Do away with the avenger completely. It's a rip off of the chrysler sebring coupe, which isn't even being
made anymore. (( See the 1996 - 2000 model))

Cadillac:
Gorgeous cars, my older sister just recently bought the CTS...but again bad on gas mileage.
Do away with the SRX ( the Wagon looking thing )

Buick: Disgusting brand...lmao

(in reply to understeer)

Post #: 20

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