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What are we - 12/26/2005 10:52:53 PM

Lonesoul

Posts: 12
Joined: 10/19/2005
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I have a question. It has nothing to do with bdsm or any kink relation.

Are we a Barbaric society acting civilized or a Civilized society with barbarians in it?

I have my own opinion on this that I will post at a later time. I want to get some feedback on what everyone else thinks first not discuss what I think.

lonesoul

Post #: 1

RE: What are we - 12/26/2005 11:39:20 PM

girl4you2

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Joined: 8/4/2005
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perhaps we may be somewhere in the middle of the two? it's not usually so black or white.

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RE: What are we - 12/27/2005 12:44:53 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
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We're supposedly civilised but it doesn't take too much for humans to revert to primitive instinct. Anyone whose ever witnessed a riot or even just the breakdown of law and order, such as the aftermath of hurricane Katrina, can atest that the animal in us is never far from the surface....

And you can certainly argue that BDSM has a primal basis of the strong dominating the supposedly weaker but I think we've found the right balance in that it's mostly done via mutual consent for mutual gain....

Focus.

(in reply to Lonesoul)

Post #: 3

RE: What are we - 12/27/2005 1:03:34 AM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
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quote:

Are we a Barbaric society acting civilized or a Civilized society with barbarians in it?

I feel we are more Barbaric acting civilized over the last several years, as the greed/need for money/power is the primary rule used in determining what we do, how we do it, and to whom we do it.
Welcome to the boards Lonesoul. M

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Post #: 4

RE: What are we - 12/27/2005 4:07:10 AM

MHOO314

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Joined: 9/26/2004
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We are the highest form of animal, still exhibiting standard prey/predator characteristics.

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Post #: 5

RE: What are we - 12/27/2005 4:59:28 AM

Quivver

Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lonesoul

I have a question. It has nothing to do with bdsm or any kink relation.

Are we a Barbaric society acting civilized or a Civilized society with barbarians in it?

I have my own opinion on this that I will post at a later time. I want to get some feedback on what everyone else thinks first not discuss what I think.

lonesoul

I believe we as humans, being born to survive were and are Barbaric.
The degree of which increases or decreases with the level of threat to
our existance.

Q

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Post #: 6

RE: What are we - 12/27/2005 5:06:51 AM

1wildwolf

Posts: 120
Joined: 6/30/2004
From: New Zealand
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not trying to start an arguement...but just thought id raise another question

are we really the highest form of animal?

i mean i can see that we have all the advancements and such....but we are one of the few/only? animals which hunt other animals purely for enjoyment, kill each other for such things as religion or minor arguements or idealistic beliefs, create weapons designed solely to kill as many other human beings as possible....

it just makes one think sometimes

wildwolf

(in reply to MHOO314)

Post #: 7

RE: What are we - 12/27/2005 5:13:43 AM

JohnWarren

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From: Delray Beach, FL
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John Campbell proposed that there were basically two types of people: tribesmen and barbarians.

Tribesmen were cooperative, rule obeying, peace seeking, authority accepting and status oriented. Barbarians were individualists, rule testing, chaos creating and constantly questioning.

His thesis was that both were needed in a healthy society. Too many tribesmen and the society stagnates. Too many barbarians and it falls apart.

The important part of this for me was recognizing that both were important and had their role to play.

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RE: What are we - 12/27/2005 5:46:10 AM

Demon60

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Interesting ... Is it not the case humans are essentially beasts who happen to have developed written codes of acceptable behaviour - religious and secular rules to follow in order to protect society and preserve the interests of those who already hold power?

Imposed rules from "above" are bound to be challenged by those who do not benefit from them, and are always bound to be defended by those who think that they are morally right.

Demon

(in reply to JohnWarren)

Post #: 9

RE: What are we - 12/27/2005 9:40:54 AM

Lonesoul

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Joined: 10/19/2005
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OK my belief on this subject is that we are basically a barbaric society. Look at what happened after Katrina. They were not all out looting for food or diapers for their kids. They went after the Plasma screen TVs, alcahole, drug, and other high dollar items. Once the fear of consequence was removed we stopped acting civilized toward each-other. Remember also if we were a civilized society we would obey the rules of our society. How many laws have you broken today? I know I have broke a few.

That being said I do believe that we have some civilized people in our society but they are few and far between. If our police imposed order ever breaks down we are in for a lot of trouble.

(in reply to Demon60)

Post #: 10

RE: What are we - 12/27/2005 10:01:06 AM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

John Campbell proposed that there were basically two types of people: tribesmen and barbarians.

Tribesmen were cooperative, rule obeying, peace seeking, authority accepting and status oriented. Barbarians were individualists, rule testing, chaos creating and constantly questioning.

His thesis was that both were needed in a healthy society. Too many tribesmen and the society stagnates. Too many barbarians and it falls apart.

The important part of this for me was recognizing that both were important and had their role to play.

I would have to agree with this assessment. We are both, and it takes both to keep the balance.

(in reply to JohnWarren)

Post #: 11

RE: What are we - 12/27/2005 10:03:42 AM

petwolf22

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Joined: 9/5/2005
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Well, aren't there species of insects out there where the female kills the male after mating? Or where the older animals will eat the young?

i think we are higher in terms of what we have the potential and capability of doing, but that doesn't by any means make us any *better* or any more *valuable* than any other animal out there. i have more respect for other animals than many humans i know.

(in reply to Lonesoul)

Post #: 12

RE: What are we - 12/27/2005 11:58:35 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1wildwolf

not trying to start an arguement...but just thought id raise another question

are we really the highest form of animal?

i mean i can see that we have all the advancements and such....but we are one of the few/only? animals which hunt other animals purely for enjoyment, kill each other for such things as religion or minor arguements or idealistic beliefs, create weapons designed solely to kill as many other human beings as possible....

it just makes one think sometimes

As far as is known, we're the only creature that's managed to drive other species to extinction.

Now whether that makes us the highest form of animal is argumentative but I can't think of any other creature that's managed to rise above Nature's balance of prey and predator.

I'd think we're certainly the ultimate predator but whether that's sustainable in coming generations is another thing.... Nature has many guises for flexing it's might.

Focus.

(in reply to 1wildwolf)

Post #: 13

RE: What are we - 12/27/2005 12:11:49 PM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

Are we a Barbaric society acting civilized or a Civilized society with barbarians in it?

My vote is ofr barbarian's feebly attempting to act civilized. Many cannot manage to pull it off.
Anyone who has been to a shopping mall and see's children running around more less unsupervised by their parents who can care less if anything happens to them knows what I mean.
How can you call that civilized behavior?

(in reply to Lonesoul)

Post #: 14

RE: What are we - 12/27/2005 12:44:27 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

quote:

Are we a Barbaric society acting civilized or a Civilized society with barbarians in it?

My vote is ofr barbarian's feebly attempting to act civilized. Many cannot manage to pull it off.
Anyone who has been to a shopping mall and see's children running around more less unsupervised by their parents who can care less if anything happens to them knows what I mean.
How can you call that civilized behavior?

And way too many unsupervised single but *non-submissive* women, too, dammit!

Focus.

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 15

RE: What are we - 12/27/2005 1:45:03 PM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

And way too many unsupervised single but *non-submissive* women, too, dammit!

Fix it then...sounds like a good new years resolution to me.

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 16

RE: What are we - 12/27/2005 2:01:51 PM

veronicaofML

Posts: 1317
Joined: 11/19/2005
From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
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i KNOW ya DONT want MY views

but!
i feel we are a bunch of heathen barbarians PRETENDING we are civilized...

just look at so called recorded history.

a blind man can answer this one.
even HE would see it..
take care

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Post #: 17

RE: What are we - 12/27/2005 3:15:47 PM

onceburned

Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline

I think the nations of western Europe are civilized with barbarian elements.

My assessment of the United States is more gloomy.

(in reply to veronicaofML)

Post #: 18

RE: What are we - 12/27/2005 9:42:31 PM

FangsNfeet

Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
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quote:

Are we a Barbaric society acting civilized or a Civilized society with barbarians in it?

I say we are Barbaric acting Civil for the most part. We start off civil and find ourselves being barbaric when push comes to shove. Our barbaric instincts kick in when it's a fight for survival and in the corporate world for a fight to the top. Most of us are aggressive to make it to the finish line, get the job over others, and do whatever it takes to obtain a need or goal. The human race indeed has a barbaric nature. We chooses to start off with a civil demenor that slowly becomes more barbaric as things don't go our way.

BDSM wise, would anyone want a dom who didn't have some barbarian in them?

< Message edited by FangsNfeet -- 12/27/2005 9:45:52 PM >

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RE: What are we - 12/27/2005 10:03:58 PM

DesertRat

Posts: 2774
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: NM/USA
Status: offline

I agree with Focus50 that the jury is still out on whether we are the highest form of animal. To me, it's a bogus question anyway. It all depends on who is defining "highest", and I doubt if other species are sitting around debating this issue. Are we the best adapted? Will we persist for millions of years? Who knows? If survivability is a criterion, then cockroaches and viruses may well turn out to be the true pinnacles of evolution. Maybe they already are and we just haven't acknowledged it yet.

I'd say something similar about the 'Civilized vs Barbaric' question. It all depends on who is doing the defining and also on just what is being defined. Does being civilized mean we're kinder and gentler? Are barbarians harsher and more brutal? To me, it looks like complex societies are real meat grinders in many ways. Sometimes, in the course of my work, I find myself thinking that hunter/gatherers had it pretty good and everything started going to hell with the advent of agriculture. But that's a slacker viewpoint, and I must admit I am indeed a slacker.

Head....hurting....must...stop....thinking.....

Bob

(in reply to FangsNfeet)

Post #: 20

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