RE: Senate Told It May Take $75 to $125 Billion To Keep Big Three From Bankruptcy

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RE: Senate Told It May Take $75 to $125 Billion To Keep... - 12/6/2008 3:43:51 PM

Naga

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

I sincerely hope you are wrong.

If we do hear that logic, I hope everyone (at least everyone here) remembers the fundamental economic principle that sunk costs are gone, and that throwing good money after bad is the height of economic irrationality.

If they understood that principle, then this would not have been floated in the first place. Is anyone under the illusion that they understand economics (those floating the bailouts) have any real understanding of economics?

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RE: Senate Told It May Take $75 to $125 Billion To Keep... - 12/6/2008 3:46:31 PM

Musicmystery

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They understand it all too well.

But they also understand politics.

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RE: Senate Told It May Take $75 to $125 Billion To Keep... - 12/6/2008 3:47:22 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

If the auto industry gets the money are we again bailing out Wall Street under a different guise?

That to me seems a bit of a reach. If nothing else, there is no arguing that loaning money to businesses to finance their operations is at the core of what Wall Street does. Even if it is a "bailout" of Wall Street to some degree, it would stand as the one potentially justifiable bailout yet in this whole gory mess.

However, one advantage of a "pre-packaged Chapter 11" bankruptcy for the Big Three would be that Wall Street would have to take some lumps along with everyone else. If the Big Three have been mismanaging their operations, then Wall Street has erred in funding those mistakes, and it is only fitting there be consequence for that error.

That should not go so far as to allow Rick Wagoner, et al, off the hook for their far more egregious sins.

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RE: Senate Told It May Take $75 to $125 Billion To Keep... - 12/6/2008 3:54:15 PM

Lorr47

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Lehman made sense to me, because that is what should happen in the marketplace--you plays the game, you takes your chances, and the losers suffer the consequences. AIG, and everything since then, however, seems to pervert that rationale--now it's play the game but there's no real risk because Uncle Sam is cosigning on everything.

Actually, aside from the amazing cost of all this and the apparent lack of any cogent approach beyond doing something for the sake of doing something, this bothers me the most.

Some of my reading of the London newspapers suggests the AIG bailout may have been motivated in part by European pressures to not let AIG fall--that European banks are more on the hook with those damned credit default swaps than US banks.

If that is the case, then the AIG bailout was US taxpayer funds bailing out European banks as well.

"Wrong" is rapidly becoming inadequate to the situation.

Last week I read an article criticizing the Euro Bank. In the middle of the article they explained how the Europeans lobbied the US government to bail out AIG. The lobbying according to the Europeans was intense. Since I was looking for information on the bank, I ignored the rest. Wrong approach. Yes, the Europeans are up to their armpits in whatever AIG was selling; securities based on insurance policies? Now, politicians are bailing out the world.

< Message edited by Lorr47 -- 12/6/2008 4:18:19 PM >

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RE: Senate Told It May Take $75 to $125 Billion To Keep... - 12/6/2008 4:21:48 PM

Naga

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

They understand it all too well.

But they also understand politics.

I am not buying that. Their behavior flies in the face of the basics. So they are either woefully ignorant or freaking insane.

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RE: Senate Told It May Take $75 to $125 Billion To Keep... - 12/6/2008 4:27:01 PM

Musicmystery

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OK. We'll go with your view---everyone but you is stupid.

At least it's succinct and global.

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RE: Senate Told It May Take $75 to $125 Billion To Keep... - 12/6/2008 8:05:54 PM

Naga

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

OK. We'll go with your view---everyone but you is stupid.

At least it's succinct and global.

Funny, I never said that. Can you deal with what I said or can you only deal with the words you put in my mouth?

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RE: Senate Told It May Take $75 to $125 Billion To Keep... - 12/6/2008 8:08:18 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Naga

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

They understand it all too well.

But they also understand politics.

I am not buying that. Their behavior flies in the face of the basics. So they are either woefully ignorant or freaking insane.

If by "they" you mean Congress, Wall Street, and the Big Three CEOs, I would say the answer is "yes"--woefully ignorant and freaking insane.

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RE: Senate Told It May Take $75 to $125 Billion To Keep... - 12/6/2008 8:15:04 PM

MasterG2kTR

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I've said it before, and I will say it again. Let Ford, GM and Chrysler collapse under the weight of their own ignorance and stupidity. When they do, the void left by them will be filled by the likes of Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, etc.... who will then build more cars right here here in the US, as they do now, and they will hire more american workers to produce those cars. Most likely most of them will be displaced autoworkers.

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RE: Senate Told It May Take $75 to $125 Billion To Keep... - 12/6/2008 8:17:33 PM

Naga

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

If by "they" you mean Congress, Wall Street, and the Big Three CEOs, I would say the answer is "yes"--woefully ignorant and freaking insane.

Bingo, that was the context the statement was made in. Thank you.

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