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RE: When is kneeling before you too soon? - 12/28/2005 8:12:46 PM   
OscarHargraves


Posts: 693
Joined: 8/9/2005
Status: offline 		I feel that having a Sub kneel before you is something very special. It is not done unless that Sub is saying that they know you and totally trust you. Kneeling is the most visible outward sign of submission. I don't want a weak Sub who will kneel to anyone. I prefer a woman who is strong enough to insist on respect and comfortable enough with herself to wait until she knows me before she offers her submission. I want it to feel more like a conquest than a doormat.

Just my opinion.......

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RE: When is kneeling before you too soon? - 12/28/2005 9:13:20 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OscarHargraves
I don't want a weak Sub who will kneel to anyone.

That assumes the two are related. They are not necessarily.

I understand that for some people they equate quantity to quality, or have some symbolic significance that is unaffected by context.

But for some other people, kneeling can be just a kneel, or more, depending on the context. It's not the kneeling that matters, it's the purpose, the motivation.

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RE: When is kneeling before you too soon? - 12/28/2005 10:24:54 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross


quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
simply thing for me.... "Cheaply given is Cheaply Valued"

Which doesn't mean that just because you do it right away means it's cheaply valued. People use this argument against me all the time when it comes to casual sex- that I somehow much not value myself or my sexuality very much if I can do it so easily.

Couldn't be farther from the truth.



nods... but It really doesn't matter if you value it greatly or not... if you giving it to me... and I feel what is given was not earned in my eyes or given cheaply.. then the natural reaction would be to question it value in your eyes. But, It is more a question of differences Value systems..... neither one being better than the other.... more accurately if I have a different value system upon different actions and motivations than you... then there could be compatibility issues particularly if the differences are significant.

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: When is kneeling before you too soon? - 12/28/2005 11:28:23 PM   
girl4you2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
nods... but It really doesn't matter if you value it greatly or not... if you giving it to me... and I feel what is given was not earned in my eyes or given cheaply.. then the natural reaction would be to question it value in your eyes. But, It is more a question of differences Value systems..... neither one being better than the other.... more accurately if I have a different value system upon different actions and motivations than you... then there could be compatibility issues particularly if the differences are significant.

so to try to see if i'm on track here, is it kind of like the eye of the beholder whom also sees what is reflected out of the eyes of the beholdee? so that if what you are seeing comes from the heart/soul meaningfully motivated and means a great deal in ways that you both relate to, then the act becomes more significant and thus more meaningful? as well as the compatibility issue you mentioned. have i got it or have i mixed it up?

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RE: When is kneeling before you too soon? - 12/29/2005 6:39:00 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
nods... but It really doesn't matter if you value it greatly or not... if you giving it to me... and I feel what is given was not earned in my eyes or given cheaply.. then the natural reaction would be to question it value in your eyes. But, It is more a question of differences Value systems..... neither one being better than the other.... more accurately if I have a different value system upon different actions and motivations than you... then there could be compatibility issues particularly if the differences are significant.

And the reality is that is you are a gentleman/lady with manners and you just saw me kneel down in front of you out of nowhere having never even seen me before, your manners and sense of social awareness would likely have you respond more with a puzzled look and "Thanks but not interested"

Not an immediate "You obviously have no value for yourself or me and you need to go away right now"

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RE: When is kneeling before you too soon? - 12/29/2005 9:42:29 AM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

And the reality is that is you are a gentleman/lady with manners and you just saw me kneel down in front of you out of nowhere having never even seen me before, your manners and sense of social awareness would likely have you respond more with a puzzled look and "Thanks but not interested"

Not an immediate "You obviously have no value for yourself or me and you need to go away right now"


Very true.... I would not immediately project my valuation on to yourself or anyone else that With "manners" nicely kneels in front of me. It would as you say "Thank you, but not interested" However, not everyone is like that as you well know..

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: When is kneeling before you too soon? - 12/29/2005 9:44:58 AM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2

[so to try to see if i'm on track here, is it kind of like the eye of the beholder whom also sees what is reflected out of the eyes of the beholdee? so that if what you are seeing comes from the heart/soul meaningfully motivated and means a great deal in ways that you both relate to, then the act becomes more significant and thus more meaningful? as well as the compatibility issue you mentioned. have i got it or have i mixed it up?


I think you understand it very well *S* at least my perspective

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: When is kneeling before you too soon? - 12/30/2005 4:52:26 AM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		It's no different from the so-called Doms that write us telling us to bow or kneel....or even more interesting things....in their first post to us. I mean...gosh...shouldn't we like, have a drink first, or something?!!

There are all kinds of people out there....even more in here! LOL

I would just take it for what it's worth.


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RE: When is kneeling before you too soon? - 12/30/2005 10:32:51 PM   
Delvin


Posts: 151
Joined: 8/23/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		perhaps you have touched something so deep inside her that begs to have her beg to you. Only the two involved can decide when is too soon. If after the first night she wishes to beg, then so bet it, let the process begin and life goes on

D

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RE: When is kneeling before you too soon? - 12/31/2005 2:00:40 AM   
girl4you2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2

[so to try to see if i'm on track here, is it kind of like the eye of the beholder whom also sees what is reflected out of the eyes of the beholdee? so that if what you are seeing comes from the heart/soul meaningfully motivated and means a great deal in ways that you both relate to, then the act becomes more significant and thus more meaningful? as well as the compatibility issue you mentioned. have i got it or have i mixed it up?


I think you understand it very well *S* at least my perspective

thank you; valued confirmation from a source i trust.

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maireann croí éadrom i bhfad. is maith an scáthán súil charad. is leor nod don eolach.
got shoes?

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RE: When is kneeling before you too soon? - 12/31/2005 7:04:18 AM   
PerhapsitsFate


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quote:

quote:

I agree totally with the cheaply given thought if the kneeling is in offer of total devotion, almost as a beg to be noticed. But kneeling just like it's counterpart of a spoken title doesn't always mean one is throwing themselves at the feet of another. It's simply a form of respect, possibly one step beyond the use of a title, but non the less the meaning is conveyed.


As with all actions, it is not the action that is important but the meaning behind the action. Kneeling could mean so many different things.....from giving ones submission to the Dom, to giving respect to a Dom's position, to just being more comfortable kneeling on the floor (which i consider very comfy).
quote:



I'd have to say this hits the nail on the head, I'd hate to think everytime I knelt on the floor I was offering myself in submission, that would make things a tad uncomfortable if I was serving a friend in a domestic capacity and scrubbing his kitchen floor!! Also like Nendarye I'm a floor person, and especially when I'm with a Dominant, I actually prefer to spend my time on the floor. When I first entered the lifestyle, I was lucky enough to spend a formidable amount of time with a Dom/Dom couple, as they owned my best friend. In their house, slaves/submissives always were on the floor, there were pillows everywhere.

I understand the arguement of "kneeling to offer oneself", and how deep that can go. I remember what it felt like when I knelt to receive my prior Dominants collar, and it was much more meaningfull for me. I've also knelt in front of someone during casual play. Though I've knelt in submission during just a scene, it's respect and good training that has taught me to do so, and it does wonders for my mindset. It's a trigger... just like someone grabbing a handfull of hair... it reminds me of who I am, even though we might be just watching TV or hanging out.

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RE: When is kneeling before you too soon? - 1/2/2006 3:42:07 PM   
feline


Posts: 1101
Joined: 2/23/2004
From: CA
Status: offline 		I guess I'm "old school" as well. I kneel only for one, and only when it's been earned.

feline=^..^=

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RE: When is kneeling before you too soon? - 1/2/2006 3:51:10 PM   
MasterLark


Posts: 249
Joined: 5/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OscarHargraves

I feel that having a Sub kneel before you is something very special. It is not done unless that Sub is saying that they know you and totally trust you. Kneeling is the most visible outward sign of submission. I don't want a weak Sub who will kneel to anyone. I prefer a woman who is strong enough to insist on respect and comfortable enough with herself to wait until she knows me before she offers her submission. I want it to feel more like a conquest than a doormat.

Just my opinion.......


Well said, agreed. I presume a period of getting to know each other online, by phone etc, where trust is established as much as it can be but at the first meeting, in private, kneel, to begin the journey.

(in reply to OscarHargraves)
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RE: When is kneeling before you too soon? - 1/2/2006 4:22:05 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: feline

I guess I'm "old school" as well. I kneel only for one, and only when it's been earned.

feline=^..^=

It's not old school, just your particular romantic protocol.

Plenty of "old school" slaves were expected to kneel for anyone and everyone in a certain social class.

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: When is kneeling before you too soon? - 1/2/2006 6:11:08 PM   
classykindasassy


Posts: 291
Joined: 12/13/2005
Status: offline 		Well, i guess it all boils down to being authentic and keeping it real, if that matters to you. I don't mean to imply that it would not. You could have a conversation with said sub and search out sub's true feelings if she were so inclined to be authentic about it, rather than saying what she thought you wanted to hear.

I myself was surprised aty my own visceral need and desire to kneel at the feet of my Dom last week. We have only been together a couple of months. I must say that I adore him and trust him implicitly and explicitly with my safety and wellbeing. He is a seasoned paramedic and has much experience in the lifestyle, so I trust him with my body and wish He would do the piercings I am thinking of having done.

Anyway, He proposed a very vulnerable scene for me which I accepted. I was bound and blindfolded and could not have stopped what was to come and it was something with the potential of great pain and even damage if not done right. And it went very well. But being blindfolded and bound the way I was, inside I felt very alone and it took great mental control to give myself over to the deep enjoyment and orgasms He brought. It was a taxing scene for BOTH of us and even at the end of a long day, He gave me excellent aftercare and I needed it. I was so grateful and so pleasured I was desperate to get down there at His feet. He would only let me stay down for a couple of minutes before He made me get back up. I really wanted to stay down there for about 30 mins, but He was not having it because He felt I needed the aftercare more. I allowed Him to give to me, but I still wanted back down.

But this is because I value the trustworthiness, the tenderness and caring He gives me in seemingly unending quantity. I was MOVED to do it, not out of some idea of protocol.

So, depending on your desires, and how You want to be thought of, You get to say how and when You have someone at your feet. If it is not good to You, i would suggest to call a stop and talk about it. Stay true to what feels authentic to You.

cks





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RE: When is kneeling before you too soon? - 1/4/2006 12:27:14 PM   
untamedcherub


Posts: 3
Status: offline 		After reading the posts in this thread, another question came to my mind.

As a Dominant and submissive are exploring a potential relationship, when is it appropriate to begin to call a dominant "Sir" or "Ma'am" or other similar titles of respect?

I look forward to your feedback. Thank you, untamedcherub

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RE: When is kneeling before you too soon? - 1/4/2006 12:34:52 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: untamedcherub
when is it appropriate to begin to call a dominant "Sir" or "Ma'am" or other similar titles of respect

Name or sir


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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: When is kneeling before you too soon? - 1/4/2006 12:37:44 PM   
MasterLark


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Joined: 5/12/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: untamedcherub

After reading the posts in this thread, another question came to my mind.

As a Dominant and submissive are exploring a potential relationship, when is it appropriate to begin to call a dominant "Sir" or "Ma'am" or other similar titles of respect?

I look forward to your feedback. Thank you, untamedcherub


For my preference, at the beginning of the relationship, wherever one feels the beginning starts, is the time to require "titles of respect." It may start at different times for different folks. For me, it is a first signal of recognizing Dominance and accepting submission. I do not prefer a long wait until using "titles of respect."

(in reply to untamedcherub)
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RE: When is kneeling before you too soon? - 1/4/2006 2:22:02 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: untamedcherub

After reading the posts in this thread, another question came to my mind.

As a Dominant and submissive are exploring a potential relationship, when is it appropriate to begin to call a dominant "Sir" or "Ma'am" or other similar titles of respect?

I look forward to your feedback. Thank you, untamedcherub



It just happens that kyra and I were discussing this fact not to long ago. Kyra noted the evolution of her emails to me. How in the beginning it was simply KoM.. then to Knight... then Sir as we began a formal relationship it evolved into my Sir and now it is my Lord. The last part is a rather formal process that I am directly in control over... The first part was rather informal and my control was rather indirect.... meaning my behaviors and the relationships developed was slowly being recognized by kyra. I don't require anyone to address me in a particular manner, however, I do expect polite manners if I am going to desire to interact with a person. Kyra first started to address me in emails simply as KoM, which was nothing more than a simple of address between acquiantences. As a friendship started to become possible and the discussions became more personal. The emails address developed in more personal touch with just Knight. Not required by me.. but her own natural tendency of expressions to be more friendly began to take hold. We started to not only email and chat, but phone conversations began to occur. It was long before this that she started to address me as Sir, Again... it wasn't a requirement of mine... it was her own desire to recognize me.. another step to a deeper bonding. By the time she came to visit me... there was many things she was doing because it both pleased me and also conveyed her recognition of my significance in her life. There was very very few requirements imposed upon her and what was imposed was all very direct in polite manners towards myself. However, I purposely noted things that pleased me and she was quick to see these things and looked to do them. I recall fondly how enjoyed recieving a email from her each evening... suddenly this behavior was something she took extra effort in doing... for it brought pleasure to me and that pleased her. I then made note how the few times I have woke in the morning to read some thoughts from her that is was very enjoyable... quickly this occassionaly emails in the morning was there every morning... and once again she should be a desire to please ... and please ME specifically. These actions as well as others and the choice to address me as Sir... are things that I treasure in the development of a relationship with kyra. Some of things that occurred was by my design... others happened very naturally and with planned thoughts and in some ways those things are still occuring!



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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: When is kneeling before you too soon? - 2/2/2006 6:25:26 AM   
Dracironsgirl


Posts: 175
Joined: 7/2/2005
Status: offline 		great post i'm going to ask Master His thoughts on that ..but i knew Him before i kneeled before Him ....not long thereafter tho i began kneeling at His feet, but i was His first sight so i don't really know.
~kristin

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