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RE: Suicide on TV condemned in Britain - 12/10/2008 10:09:12 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

General Reply -
 
Not long ago public hangings were common in the city square or on a hillside outside of the town limits.  How about the stoning to death of adulterers?  Is that any more objectionable?  How about viewing a death row execution?  Rhetorical questions of course...

"Every state that performs executions has legislation providing for certain people to witness them. State laws vary as to who is allowed to watch an execution, but in general, these are the people who are allowed to be witnesses:
  • Relatives of the victim(s)
  • Relatives of the prisoner
  • Prison warden
  • Medical personnel
  • Spiritual advisor(s)
  • Prison guards
  • Official group of "reputable citizens"
  • Official group of state-selected witnesses
  • Media representatives " 


http://www.usatoday.com/news/science/stuffworks/2001-05-10-lethal-injection.htm#more


Ven, I agree that all executions should be public!
We (The Taxpayers) are the ones who are paying for them afterall.
Mark Twain said that he saw his first hanging before he was 12 years old.
I thought that I might send a letter to the S. Carolina Atty. Gens. office and ask Atty Gen. Henry McMaster if I could go up and watch an execution sometime.
Either way it would probably be an interesting reply letter.

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RE: Suicide on TV condemned in Britain - 12/10/2008 10:21:20 PM   
AquaticSub


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~Fast Reply~

Humans have loved watching over people die, be drawn and quartered, inwards ripped out, etc and have a made a public display of it for almost our entire existence. I find it somewhat comforting that we prefer our gore to be fake now.

So for this, my understanding it that it's a documentary - something that is a far cry "entertainment on the boob tube" in my opinion. Without documentaries on TV, many people wouldn't even be aware of those who practice unusual sexuality - I caught a great one on pony girls and boys the other week. I would have to show the documentary to have a firm opinion but I think that bringing this up is a good thing.

It can't have been an easy decision for the man and his family but I wish them peace and hope that they don't suffer as a result of their choice to share this decision with the world.

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RE: Suicide on TV condemned in Britain - 12/10/2008 10:28:47 PM   
BbwCanaDomme


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I know earlier this year I watched the documentary The Bridge on channel 4 while in the UK, which shows multiple people jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge. It was actually really well done and didn't feel creepy or gross. If this documentary is handled the same way I don't see what the problem is, as long as they aren't exploiting the people who agreed to be involved.

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RE: Suicide on TV condemned in Britain - 12/10/2008 11:31:27 PM   
Vendaval


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I remember reading in a British Literature class excerpts from The Diary of Samuel Pepys.  One memorable passage included the family packing a picnic lunch to go watch a public hanging, circa 1660 or so.  They dined on oysters if I recall correctly.
 
http://www.pepysdiary.com/about/history/

 
Of course you always have the glorious days of the Roman Empire  with roadside crucifictions and the gladiator games in the colosseum.  Lovely family entertainment all of it.  (sarcasm people, sarcasm)


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RE: Suicide on TV condemned in Britain - 12/11/2008 2:44:02 AM   
piratecommander


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Suicide on TV condemned in Britain

Suicide as entertainment....one word:  creepy.



I did not see it because I don't watch TV to speak of . I have now looked into the programme subject matter and I agree with you CL , creepy indeed , as a serious issue there has been and will continue to be responsible avenues via which we can analyse and debate this. I wonder how many viewing it saw it because it had been ADVERTISED ?

Pirate

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RE: Suicide on TV condemned in Britain - 12/11/2008 5:21:54 AM   
pahunkboy


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smash the fucken TV!

thats all life amounts to?  a circus act?   that is all any of us are worth?   SHAME on us!  SHAME!!!! SHAME SHAME!!!


my life is worth more then this.   your life is worth more then this.   cancel your TV service.  

the participants in this still sleep at night.    we are so doomed.

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RE: Suicide on TV condemned in Britain - 12/11/2008 5:38:19 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

It is good that people talk about such things....but does that really justify putting the end of someone's life on primetime TV?



Television companies are run by business-minded people: if there's a profit in it, why not  ? I thought you liked free enterprise.

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RE: Suicide on TV condemned in Britain - 12/11/2008 6:15:59 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Suicide on TV condemned in Britain

Suicide as entertainment....one word:  creepy.



The logical conclusion of reality television - just more mind violence. The popularity of these types of shows tells a story. I was in Belgium around 1992, where the roads aren't as good as they should be for dealing with wet conditions. Anyway, every so often there was a serious accident with cars being opened up and mangled limbs being dragged out by the rescue services. The Belgians were out on bridges with video recorders filming the whole situation - and this was at pretty much at every crash -  we were a touch surprised by the inquisitive nature of the Belgians, but then I suppose we prefer people killing themselves on our television screens. People are drawn to misery and suffering; we empathise with other human beings and like to tap into their state of being.

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RE: Suicide on TV condemned in Britain - 12/11/2008 6:20:27 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChainGoddess

I fully agree that anybody with an incurable illness should have the right  to end their life as they chose.   But it is not something I wish to watch on tv.   

my feeling exactly.




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RE: Suicide on TV condemned in Britain - 12/11/2008 6:43:49 AM   
suhlut


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facing 50%  odds of inheriting Huntington's disease.. and after watching the quality of life..for the last ten years of my mothers life in a nursing home, suffering with the disease.. i have long ago decided that when there comes a point in my life, where i, in my own mind, decide that there no longer is anything of quality left to live in my life.. that's when i will be committing suicide.

It really makes me mad that people can sit around in front of their computers and not having a clue what it is like to face things like terminal illnesses, along with diseases such as huntington's, have any right..whatsoever.. in telling me that i shouldn't have the right to my very well thought out plan. And that a family member or loved one.. or friend.. or a Doctor.. shouldn't be allowed to hand to me a bottle of pills or a syringe, or whatever else method i decide to use to end my life.

In the end, it is my choice, and mine alone, to decide this for myself, to not allow my body to slip into a non communicating.. shell of a body that's spoon fed crappy blended meals.. and thickened drinks..and festering away for 10 years in a nursing home. no thanks.

And as for the idea that we improve the conditions for terminally ill patients.. that's all fine and good...as there is a real need to to make nursing homes and such better living environments.. BUT.. a better nursing home.. better conditions.. better care workers.. better meds.. better whatever..are NOT ever going to change my mind that i do not wish to allow myself to slip into the final stages of that disease.

And that in the end, is my choice to make.. is it selfish?.. perhaps.. but i don't care to keep myself alive just for the selfish reasons that family members, friends and loved ones still have a shell of a body with a heart still beating.. to come visit every now and then. THATS selfish.. in my opinion.

And it is every bit also my right to chose how i might someday end my life, i of course will never be doing it for a television program or any documentary, but, i do think i will have a family member present.. and also a chance for last goodbyes with other family members and loved ones, and choose a method that doesn't leave a gruesome mess for someone to find. I find nothing wrong with the idea that someone i care about will be the person that hands to me whatever method i end up choosing.

If anyone wishes to argue with my opinions written here.. may i suggest they first do a bit of study on Huntington's disease.. there's tons of info on it online, but also, for a pictorial idea.. U Tube has a ton of videos of people affected with the disease.. just go take a look...and then tell me if you still would wanna live for ten years like that in a nursing home.

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RE: Suicide on TV condemned in Britain - 12/11/2008 11:11:20 AM   
Lockit


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suhlut, coming to that decision is not something that comes quickly.  Oh someone might flipantly say... if that happened to me, I would end it, but the actuallity of doing it is far different.  One thinks of just about every thing.  Medical things of course, but family, life, the after life, laws, how to do it etc.  When you have watched someone else in your family with a genetic disease, you know that your chances are real high on being just like them.  It is no easy picture to view and you don't just view it for a few moments and move on.  You are reminded quite often that your time is a comin!  (My best to you in your situation and I hope no one feels the need to convince you of anything.)

I think that most people can understand at least on a compassionate level.  I think the one's that get to me the most are those that claim we are not god and god should decide who lives and dies and when that time shall be.  These often times also believe in healing and if you don't get healed you must be in some sort of sin.  They may not come right out and say it, but their hints and little comments speak loud and clear.  I would like to ask... how is it that they know that god didn't plan or know that my little plan to end something that I cannot bear, that will drain my family and that a medical and governmental system will allow that I might be neglected, abused and with the demands of life, that I might be forgotten in that state by family, friends and everyone else and maybe, just maybe... that god knew my time would end in such a way and be okay with it. 

This is something that people don't like to think about in their busy day... not until it is something they have to think about.  This is one of those ugly truths in life that people tend to think on for a moment, be afraid of and then quickly move on to their reality, while for some of us, this is a reality.  Until more think about it, talk about it, blog about it and actually do something about it... when their time comes, they may find that they too must think about it and may have to suffer too many years in a nursing home... name one good one in each state who takes medicare... and they too may need to make some choices.

We may find it distasteful, crazy and unreal for a guy to decide to end his life publically, but he is saying far more than most will hear.  He is saying we need change.  How many in history were considered crazy to do what they did and then were the one who discovered some great thing and we maybe centuries later know their name?  It may seem crazy to us... even to me who understands the issues a bit... but maybe this guy is doing the sanest thing he could do to make a point, to call attention to something that needs attention and to hopefully wake up some sleeping giants. 

He could be a hero.  He might not really want everyone to watch him die.  He may not want to be seen in this way or even want public attention to his plight.  He may wish to pave the road for many who are suffering more than an illness... families drained... financially ruined and more.  He may be saying far more than some will hear... and I personally think it is time someone listened.  And that may be exactly why he is doing it.

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RE: Suicide on TV condemned in Britain - 12/11/2008 12:11:03 PM   
piratecommander


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quote:

ORIGINAL: suhlut

facing 50%  odds of inheriting Huntington's disease.. and after watching the quality of life..for the last ten years of my mothers life in a nursing home, suffering with the disease.. i have long ago decided that when there comes a point in my life, where i, in my own mind, decide that there no longer is anything of quality left to live in my life.. that's when i will be committing suicide.

It really makes me mad that people can sit around in front of their computers and not having a clue what it is like to face things like terminal illnesses, along with diseases such as huntington's, have any right..whatsoever.. in telling me that i shouldn't have the right to my very well thought out plan. And that a family member or loved one.. or friend.. or a Doctor.. shouldn't be allowed to hand to me a bottle of pills or a syringe, or whatever else method i decide to use to end my life.

In the end, it is my choice, and mine alone, to decide this for myself, to not allow my body to slip into a non communicating.. shell of a body that's spoon fed crappy blended meals.. and thickened drinks..and festering away for 10 years in a nursing home. no thanks.

And as for the idea that we improve the conditions for terminally ill patients.. that's all fine and good...as there is a real need to to make nursing homes and such better living environments.. BUT.. a better nursing home.. better conditions.. better care workers.. better meds.. better whatever..are NOT ever going to change my mind that i do not wish to allow myself to slip into the final stages of that disease.

And that in the end, is my choice to make.. is it selfish?.. perhaps.. but i don't care to keep myself alive just for the selfish reasons that family members, friends and loved ones still have a shell of a body with a heart still beating.. to come visit every now and then. THATS selfish.. in my opinion.

And it is every bit also my right to chose how i might someday end my life, i of course will never be doing it for a television program or any documentary, but, i do think i will have a family member present.. and also a chance for last goodbyes with other family members and loved ones, and choose a method that doesn't leave a gruesome mess for someone to find. I find nothing wrong with the idea that someone i care about will be the person that hands to me whatever method i end up choosing.

If anyone wishes to argue with my opinions written here.. may i suggest they first do a bit of study on Huntington's disease.. there's tons of info on it online, but also, for a pictorial idea.. U Tube has a ton of videos of people affected with the disease.. just go take a look...and then tell me if you still would wanna live for ten years like that in a nursing home.


I believe that if I was in your position I would be saying the same thing , I have been lucky enough In my life not too have had to face such thought processes first hand.I have come across (once) a cirumstance which unfortunately I can not ellaborate on. Whilst I hope you never have to ,I wish you the very best should you need to implement your plan .

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RE: Suicide on TV condemned in Britain - 12/11/2008 2:11:59 PM   
Raechard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
Humans have loved watching over people die, be drawn and quartered, inwards ripped out, etc and have a made a public display of it for almost our entire existence. I find it somewhat comforting that we prefer our gore to be fake now.


If the fake is as realistic as the real is the moral difference between the two tangible; easy to quantify? People want authenticity in these matters, the more realistic the better. I didn't see the programme but if the family involved wanted to do it for their own reasons (maybe to raise the debate once again on why people have to travel there to die) then I don't see what all the fuss is about. People will watch it for the wrong reasons just as some will watch it for the right reasons, the people who are outraged can choose not to watch it, so everyone is happy. We can't tell why people chose to watch these things just as we can't tell if some medical practitioners want to be medical practitioners out of the morbid fascination about being around death, we’d hope not but we can’t tell. Similarly we can’t judge the motives of programme makers.

As a general response to those that assume programme makers are only interested in the ratings I’d say: have you ever met a film maker that valued their work in such a little way? They don’t do it for ratings they do it for ego, they want to be breaking new ground and consider their work to be the most important piece of work. To say it is all about ratings is the usual thoughtless argument that gets tossed about by those who have never considered how passionate these types are about their work and the importance of it. Everyone has to pay the bills but it’s not what they care about most.


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RE: Suicide on TV condemned in Britain - 12/12/2008 8:29:19 AM   
suhlut


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Lockit..

      thanks for the well thought out reply.. i found it very interesting to read, and have to agree.

On a personal level.. you are right.. it IS hard.. to watch family members die of terminal illnesses, but especially genetic disease. i spent lots of time avoiding visiting for that exact reason, it was hard not to look at my mother, and not see a potential future for myself. Regardless of how often i visited, in those ten years.. i was always confronted with the overwhelming fear that i was looking into a crystal ball and seeing my own future. The average person does not understand how that feels.

Just like you said, i have also done the same thing, in making this decision for myself, gone through all of the long thought out processes of making such a decision... "Medical things of course, but family, life, the after life, laws, how to do it "

Some of those things.. like religion for example.. have nearly scared me enough to change my mind.. the whole "suicide is one of the deadly sins" argument.. has really terrified me. And i have also questioned the belief of "God healing" in that, i ask those whom believe that God heals.. well then, what if i asked God to heal me.. and say for the hell of it, He says, "sure sherry.. you are NOW healed.. " does the fact that the disease is hereditary mean.. once i am "healed".. that none of my children will ever get the disease that they would have inherited from me.. or..are they still needing to be healed seperately..?.. Nobody has ever answered.. and why? Because most people tend to think of "God healing" in the terms of what you see on tv or read of such "miracles" Blind people, no longer blind.. The lame..no longer lame.. ect... but you NEVER hear of God performing any miracle healings on people with hereditary disease. How equal opportunity is THAT? or..how fair?

And so.. if God won't or can't heal herditary disease.. if there really is a God.. then i'm thinking He shouldn't much mind if i decide on my own when i have had enough.

Anyways i degress.. and now back on topic..

i like your guess as to the possible reason why then gentleman in the original op chose to have his suicide videotaped, and eventually televised..
i hadn't read the original article.. till today.. and my heart broke from what i read, cause it sounds so much like the struggle i might someday face. i can easily relate to how he felt, and very much admire why he made the decisions he did.

i by no means advocate suicide.. for any other reason then medical.. For instance, i have already admitted that it is part of my plans to someday, if needed, to end my life when quality of life is such, that there is more pain and suffering, then compared to joys and happinesses..so, i am pro Suicide.. right? Not completely.. my rather young neice just attempted ,a few weeks ago, suicide, over a disagreement with her boyfriend.. and well.. i am so very terribly angry at her. For what she put my sister through.. for the selfish act.. for the financial burden she would have left to her mother.. all of those things. It has been a bit of a struggle for me to set inside my mind, how what i am planning, is in anyway different then what she attempted to do. How do i have a right to express my very deep anger and dissapointment in her, when i am willing to concider the same act for myself? It seems kinda..well... hypocritical. i do know what the difference is, however.

i do hope that with taping his suicide, and having it made public like that, as you suggest.. bring about change. Change in laws, change in how people view death, and opens dialog. i have written several times on here, largely about Huntingtons disease, but also, in lesser degrees...about the struggle people have in facing death, the struggle of terminal illnesses.and especially Hereditary disease.. assisted suicide.. ect.

Why do i write about these very personal things?
Well.. its not an easy thing to be so open with telling my story.. not at all. But i do so, because first, i want to open other peoples minds a bit.. to perhaps give a glimpse of what its like, from a different perspective.. To allow people a chance to walk in my shoes for a moment.. and hopefully change their minds..

And my personal agenda is the disease itself.. So many people have never heard of Huntingtons disease.. There is lil public awareness of a disease that.. since it can't infect them.. they have nothing to worry about.

Well, i am here to change that.. i am here to tell of the hundreds of thousands of people that suffer from this disease WORLDWIDE... that well.. just because YOU cant contract it from me.. by kissing me.. by fucking me.. by touching me.. there is still a chance it too..can affect your family.. your child might meet and marry someone with the disease.. Your sister..your brother..your child.. anyone has the opportunity to suddenly bring this disease into Your family too!.

And because its not a popularly known or feared disease such as Cancer..ect.. it doesnt have nearly the research dollars and study into finding a cure. i'd like to think i am bringing an awareness of something.. to a bigger audience.. even if they don't care.

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RE: Suicide on TV condemned in Britain - 12/12/2008 8:48:47 AM   
Lockit


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suhlut,  I can really understand everything you are saying.  The questions, the doubts, the fears... and the conclusions you come to.  Been there!  Been there with a lot of my friends too.  I have been talking about it for years online and some were not so happy I did that, but you know, it opened doors and others did come and talk to me or felt less alone.  I can't say I use this as a format here at CM, but once in a while there's a post and I just can't help speaking my mind about it. 

I will talk mostly in general, but the last few days have gotten more specific.  Someone recently asked me about my illness because he said it seemed so mysterious.  It is rare.  When I found out about it, there were only 150 families worldwide that were known to have it and one web site.  Now.. I can't say how many have it and there are about 250 web sites. It isn't taught in medical schools here in the States.  And is misdiaginosed all the time as stroke or MS.  It's called Cadasil.  I guess I am 'out' now! lol 

I do also know the suicide stuff first hand.  I see it every day in my son. (adult)  He died and they brought him back.  I hope things work out with your family and this won't be something that happens again!

I have told doctors, family... everyone... I have made my choices and I need them to be okay with it and all but one... my brain damaged son, gave me permission.  They see how I suffer at times.  When it gets worse and when I need to... I will make my choice.  I don't know if I have it in me to do because I have been a survivor and it is hard to give up or know when... but I want the right to have that choice and not have to subject someone to my choice in not having a safe and sane way to do it if I chose to.  So far my adult children don't seem to be focusing on what their future could be but it is becoming more real to them as symptoms start and they have their own families. 

No one said life was going to be easy... they typically don't tell you how tough it could be though and sometimes... I think we should prepare more.  Good luck to you!

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RE: Suicide on TV condemned in Britain - 12/12/2008 1:57:07 PM   
colouredin


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Oh wow what a prejudicial article. It fails to mention that there has been increased desire and petition to legalise assisted suicide in britain (its differant to euthanasia you know)

Last week panorama did a wonderful piece on assisted suicide from a scotish mp with parkinsons. I have always been an advocate of choice in these matters and that just solidified my view.

I think within the political climate at the moment this is fine, its not glamourising it not at all 'reality tv gone mad' its to increase awareness of something that is not understood just after a rugby player flew to switzerland for assisted suicide.

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RE: Suicide on TV condemned in Britain - 12/12/2008 2:14:00 PM   
Aneirin


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I look at it is everyone's right to live their life and if they should so choose, end their life, but what they have to consider is the impact on those that love them,something which is harder than the self. The law as it is, largely based upon Christian scripture should not be so, it has I believe have to be reviewed. Those in pain with no ease in sight should be allowed to consider their options. if death is the only option, then no law should be applied, but it is for a person of sound mind to consider. The state I assume believes it assumes those thinking of death are not in their right mind. If our medical ability is not advanced enough to offer a cure, then a person should be allowed and free to consider their options and there carry out what their mind thinks best, as to wait for a cure might be akin to torture.

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RE: Suicide on TV condemned in Britain - 12/12/2008 2:57:32 PM   
Lockit


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Aneirin, I see it as torture.  When you have elderly or ill people, many doctors and dentist will not do certain medical procedures on them.  I have watched many suffer dental problems, rotting teeth and the pain and infection even though it is medically proven that infection can lead to strokes and heart attacks and nothing is done for these patients.  I watched my family members hold their face in pain and no one would help them.  I even had a dentist say he would not touch me and I had to go to a very expensive dentist that wouldn't even look at my medical records, not caring if something he did might really harm me.  It's crazy.

We either need to make things better or allow some choices.  Both would be nice.

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RE: Suicide on TV condemned in Britain - 12/12/2008 3:00:30 PM   
Vendaval


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You can also view this as a logcial conclusion of free-marketing in television broadcasting.  There are more than 100 + cable channels in the US alone and that is a lot of air time to fill.  So along comes a subject matter that is controversial and guaranteed to generate headlines and perhaps protests.  The fact that we are arguing about this here is testimony to how well this very ploy works.
 
Caveat Emptor

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"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to NorthernGent)
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