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RE: How can I give you what is already yours? - 12/13/2008 4:35:02 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
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I agree with a lot of the people here.  What IS a relationship anyway?  I have served some who wanted simply a target for lack of a better word and I served as such, happily, because I didn't need to be anything more.  It was still a relationship.  In those instances, my suggesting anything would have been unwelcome and that was part of the appeal to me at the time. 

I see the problem as people having the tendancy to assume a D-type is all-knowing, all-seeing, super-human and always knows not only what is best but already knows everything that is pleasing and pleasurable.

I just found out that my Master has never had a s'more.  He would never ask for one since He's never tasted one and doesn't know if it's a good treat or a yukky one.  In the 5 months we have been living together, I have introduced Him to several things He didn't have any previous knowledge of.  He is highly intelligent, extremely worldly, and very wise but He has not experienced every single thing on this planet, so if I waited for Him to tell me what He wanted and never offer Him the benefit of my experiences then I would be withholding potential pleasure.  To me, that would be one of the worst things I could do..withholding anything from Him (especially under the guise of being a good slave) is something I will never do.

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to MisterMonster)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: How can I give you what is already yours? - 12/13/2008 5:42:16 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I'm not at ALL condescending about what you or others' do and in fact was quite oblivious until you mentioned it. You obviously are content, and so am I. Is there a problem?


We must disagree - I believe your post was incredibly condescending.
 
 "No, I don't faff about trying to work out what he wants. If he wants something, he is a sensible, able adult that can ask for it. " implies that those who "faff" around have owners that aren't "sensible adults" and "The bottom line is ...If HE's in control, then he is in the position where he can have things how he'd like them. It's not an elaborate game where I have to mess around guessing" implies that those who don't do things your way go around guessing and their owners aren't in control.
 
Like I said, I'm sure your way works wonderfully for you and yours. It's entirely your way of speaking of it in relation to other dynamics that I am taking issue with.


I'm not speaking about my dynamic in relation to anyone elses'. I was very clear about that in an earler post. Any inference is taken by you, not implied by me.

A fair few people have suggested that a person that doesn't spend time *looking for ways to serve*is sat around watching paint dry, twiddling their thumbs; I don't think that they are implying that's what *I* do because I don't take their post personally or as some kind of condescension regarding MY relationship, or anyone else's, like mine.

I didn't infer from your comment ''sometimes the action is sweeter when uncalled for'' that you were being condescending toward me.

I made it quite clear earlier that I understood that you're content with how things work between you two.

Your comment.....**It's not something I could ever have because I would miserable without being able to randomly express my love by offering a backrub or buying him a bag of gummi bears.** ...
... could be viewed as an assumption that acts of affection are absent from my relationship.

Acts of affection don't have a great deal to do with control and I haven't referred to  'love and devotion'. I don't view those as 'service'. They are things *I* want to do, not things he's asked for.

It obvious that what constitutes *working at a relationship* means very different things to different people.



agirl





















(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: How can I give you what is already yours? - 12/13/2008 6:10:45 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
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I have been thinking about this thread for a couple of days and I have had several different thoughts about this topic so my post may be a bit disjointed. 

- All pronouns are generic and not directed to anyone specific unless referring to myself -

"How can I give you what is already yours?"  The question that pops into my mind: is it?  Does it already belong to the master/dominant?  'They own all of me' are very pretty words and most likely make the person feel very good to say them.  But do they own all of you?  How can you make sure that it already belongs to them? 

I know for myself that owning me and mastering me has been a process.  It was not a switch that was flipped the moment I expressed the desire to be his.  Almost four years later, I am not even sure I can say that process has ended.  There is no aspect of me today that he is not aware of and has not exercised his authority on, but tomorrow there may be.  Then the process will continue.

Do they own all of you?  What if there is some desire the submissive has, but the dominant has no idea it even exists.  How can the dominant exercise authority over that aspect of the submissive if they do not know of it's existance?  On the other hand the dominant may be exercising their authority exactly the way they want and different aspects of the submissive are irrelevant to that.

In the end, I think it comes down to balance and the people in the relationship finding the right balance for them.  In our relationship he has found the balance that works for us.  Withholding things from him is perceived as withholding authority from him.  In order for him to be able to exercise authority in all aspects of our lives he has to know what that all is comprised of.  However, that information is given to him at his discresion and not ours.  We have to have his permission in order to give him information, express an opinion or ask a question.  There are even times when he gives permission and then when he starts to hear what it is, he will stop us and say he doesn't want to hear about it now or at all. 

For myself, I have a very hard time asking for things that I want.  I am much better at it now, because I discovered that in doing it with him, it causes me to feel submissive.  It isn't the warm fuzzy feelings of 'oh this feels good'.  It is a small, hollow feeling because I know that even the smallest of things is given to me at his whim.  There is an edge of fear and ache to it and I enjoy being in that headspace.

This is getting really long, but I have another point I want to make.  In regards to the other thread, I was in a job where I was the boss and then I had to come home and be the submissive.  It isn't often that I needed an outside influence to transition.  However, when he and I were apart for long periods of time and then we were together, in the beginning, I needed an outside catalyst to transition from being emotionally detached to getting back in touch with what I feel. 

This would express itself in me not behaving very submissively towards him and as a result he would withdraw from exercising authority.  This usually ended in me crying and feeling horrible and him angry.  Over time and with practice, I learned to make this transformation much more smoothly.  Unfortunately I have only been able to verbalize this in hindsight when we no longer have these transitions. 

What angel said in her post resonated very strongly with me.  That if a person is new to submitting and is having trouble finding the headspace of submitting to someone then the dominant actively exercising authority is going to do more to get the person submitting than the submissive saying this is what I would like to happen.  For myself, when he was more authoritative it would push me to get back in touch with my feelings and I would cry sooner than when he withdrew and left me on my own to do it.  It was a balance that he learned to find so that he could have the slave he wanted.  He wants a girl who is emotionally and mentally there with him doing the things he wants of her and I wanted to give him that.  We both had to learn what would get me there.  Just before I moved here, the transitions were getting pretty damn smooth for us.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to tsatske)
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RE: How can I give you what is already yours? - 12/13/2008 6:53:32 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
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Nice

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: How can I give you what is already yours? - 12/13/2008 7:08:57 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

I agree with a lot of the people here.  What IS a relationship anyway?  I have served some who wanted simply a target for lack of a better word and I served as such, happily, because I didn't need to be anything more.  It was still a relationship.  In those instances, my suggesting anything would have been unwelcome and that was part of the appeal to me at the time. 

I see the problem as people having the tendancy to assume a D-type is all-knowing, all-seeing, super-human and always knows not only what is best but already knows everything that is pleasing and pleasurable.

I just found out that my Master has never had a s'more.  He would never ask for one since He's never tasted one and doesn't know if it's a good treat or a yukky one.  In the 5 months we have been living together, I have introduced Him to several things He didn't have any previous knowledge of.  He is highly intelligent, extremely worldly, and very wise but He has not experienced every single thing on this planet, so if I waited for Him to tell me what He wanted and never offer Him the benefit of my experiences then I would be withholding potential pleasure.  To me, that would be one of the worst things I could do..withholding anything from Him (especially under the guise of being a good slave) is something I will never do.


I tend to think that sharing experiences are things 'people' do and don't link that to masterly/slavey type of behaviour.

Just by spending time with someone we get introduced to things we haven't experienced.

I've had a lot of *firsts* with M, and he's had a few with me........but they aren't anything to do with M/s but a lot to do with being open to trying new things.

agirl





(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: How can I give you what is already yours? - 12/13/2008 7:20:57 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Timoty

There are so many questions in your comments, it was difficult to narrow them down to something meaningful. But, here goes.

First, each relationship is unique and the degree of active particiaption in the fulfillment of the relationship, is whatever works between the people involved. A few of My expectations of My girl can be summed up in the following analogy(s).

If I were about to walk off a cliff (literally or figuratively, physically or emotionally, etc.) I would hope a girl felt it her duty, her feeling of love for Me, her desire to keep Me safe, etc, etc, etc to do whatever she could to stop Me. If that meant physically grabbing Me, so be it. If that meant speaking out of turn to help Me, so be it. Etc etc etc. she is, in fact, an active particiapnt in the relationship.

Secondly, I would hope that she would never feel prevented from selecting the most beautiful rose from O/our garden to present to Me at dinner merely because I didn't tell her that she had that option. What a dreary world it could be if the only things she could do were a direct derivitive of My mind and nothing from hers.

Lastly, communication is an expectation and requirement for her. It is not an option that she chooses to dole out from time to time but an integral piece of her servitude, devotion, and adoration. It keeps the relationship growing and moving forward.

There are so many more things to discuss about this but My time is up and I have prattled far too long. Just a few thoughts.

Master Timoty


These are things that I'd do for other people in my life and not anything at all to do with my M/s relationship.

agirl







(in reply to Timoty)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: How can I give you what is already yours? - 12/13/2008 7:32:08 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
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Hi all,

It seems as if people are more concerned with the "actions" such as spontaneously giving a massage or such is the issue because its being implied that the expectations and standards in the relationship because its M/s somehow will hinder negatively a woman's ability to think thereby placing her in a place of being a doormat with no thoughts.  This is not the truth.  Many dynamics of M/s is a concept of one party living and existing under the governing of another, and many tend to use -- well i want to please him as an excuse to do as they wish and if he doesn't like what they choose to do -- its an opps factor.   What many are stating with regard to this being manipulative is the concept of the opps factor is not what should be a motivating concept.  Its also not about micromanaging.  its not about a Man telling his slave to do everything.  I personally in my posts speak of mindsets and motivation as well as an attempt to CHANGE THE COURSE OF THE RELATIONSHIP by using your own ideas until the opps factor kicks in.   If your Master likes coffee every morning served a certain way and at a specific time.  But you feel he needs more sleep so you start giving him his coffee a little later every day and you think he needs to cut back on his caffine so you start adding decaf, and then when he finds out its an opps but Master i was only thinking of you and hoping my little changes would please you.  This whether you like to believe it or not, is a slave attempting to control the course of the relationship in a direction she feels it should go.    Now a slave going to her Master BEFORE she makes a change no matter how small she believes it is and begging to perhaps serve his coffee a little later so he may sleep a little longer or a slave begging him to perhaps add a lil decaf to his coffee to help cut down on his caffine because of such and such  this to me is not a slave attempting to control the course of the relationship because she is putting the actual decision and determination of how she serves into HIS hands -- not her own determination that she impliments because she is a thinking thang and she feels slighted in the M/s relationship becaue she wants to prove that she still has a mind of her own.

If you look at what a slave does, it means she still thinks, she still contemplates, she still assesses however, what she does not do is implement without permission.  This doesn't make her incapable of thinking, it makes her incapable of implementing without prior permission.  Its not micromanaging of the Man, its a dynamic wherein her autonomy is controled by him which means things that change the course of her service require permission -- this doesn't mean she needs to be told every minute of the day what to do and when to do it and how to do it, usually that is taught in training. 

I fail to figure out in reading some of these posts why people presume that the requirement of a woman to obtain permission from her Master -- the Man who governs, her, his home, and her life, means he micromanages or that it implies a woman can't think for herself, or that a woman needs to make the changes on the sly until such time he indicates her decisions and determination was an opps.  Within my understanding and experience with slavery, doing without permission until such time he notices and determines if he is pleased or not is not permission of the Master by omission; its manipulation of the slave by omission. 

As my mother always said when i broke curfew (a time determined by my parents to be the appropriate way they wished me to come home) and stated i didn't think she would mind because i was doing A, B, or C.  That in my not calling and asking permission for the change, i knew on some level she would say no, and i didn't want to hear it and not be able to do as i wanted.

I really wish people who feel a slave requiring permission to change a set concept determined by her Master and who does not attempt to manipulate how things are done in the relationship  but instead openly and honestly requests permission for a change would quit implying these women don't think or don't contribute actively to maintaining and keeping the relationship thriving. 

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 12/13/2008 7:46:35 AM >


_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: How can I give you what is already yours? - 12/13/2008 9:28:33 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I'm not speaking about my dynamic in relation to anyone elses'. I was very clear about that in an earler post. Any inference is taken by you, not implied by me.

A fair few people have suggested that a person that doesn't spend time *looking for ways to serve*is sat around watching paint dry, twiddling their thumbs; I don't think that they are implying that's what *I* do because I don't take their post personally or as some kind of condescension regarding MY relationship, or anyone else's, like mine.


How is that any worse than saying you don't faff around and your owner is sensible -which clearly says that those who do as you don't faff around and whose owners aren't sensible.

quote:


I didn't infer from your comment ''sometimes the action is sweeter when uncalled for'' that you were being condescending toward me.

I believe the key word in my statement is "sometimes". I did not say "I don't sit around with my thumb up my ass because my owner is sensible enough to let me take care of things without bothering him" which, by your reasoning, would only be talking about my relationship and not insulting to anyone else's. However, I realize that it states without overtly saying that relationships like yours have the owned party sitting around with their thumb up their ass and the owners aren't sensible. It's an untrue statement - even if it is seemingly only a statement about my own.
quote:


Your comment.....**It's not something I could ever have because I would miserable without being able to randomly express my love by offering a backrub or buying him a bag of gummi bears.** ...
... could be viewed as an assumption that acts of affection are absent from my relationship.

I don't see how. I didn't say "The only way I feel love can expressed is through random acts" or "I don't see how people can stay close without random acts of love". I said "I can't be happy without being able to perform random acts of love."
quote:


It obvious that what constitutes *working at a relationship* means very different things to different people.


Probably though, again, I have no issue with how you work at your relationship. I really do believe that you aren't looking at how you are speaking though. The way you spoke about your own relationship says as much as those who say "I couldn't ever sit around, waiting for paint to dry. My owner is more sensible than that."

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: How can I give you what is already yours? - 12/13/2008 11:57:15 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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Angel made some really good points in her post, particularly concerning the nature of authority. I think that part of the problem, many times, when people aren't sure how to handle initiative vs. authority, is that it isn't quite so cut and dried. I think that a good servant comes to understand the scope of hir own relationship to hir Keeper(s), and what is expected of hir, and what things xhe can take initiative with, and which things need to be run past the Keeper, because there is that possibility that they may be, even slightly, outside the realm of "initiative" and into the realm of "overstepping authority". The line is so malleable from household to household....

Just as an example: In our home, we have a recipe for moussaka, which is a traditional Greek casserole. It is a beloved favorite of mine, and I'm pretty specific about how it is made. There are actually -three- recipes, because there is one that I will use when I am home alone or with friends but ABW, LBW and SRBW aren't home. There is one I will use when it is SRB and myself, with or without friends, and there is one we use if ABW and LBW are home. There is a good reason for this. My version has lamb -- SRB is allergic to lamb. Even the smell of it cooking and aeresolized lamb fat sends her into violent nausea. When the two of us are home, we have a version that has ground beef and a fenugreek-spiced ground pork. ABW and LBW are pescatarians (fish-eaters), LBW is violently allergic to nuts (anaphalaxis) and ABW is lactose-intolerant for milk (unless it is raw milk), but can eat cream and butter. When they're home, we have a version that has crumbled tempeh or is layered with smoked fish, and prepared with heavy cream rather than milk, unless we were able to score some raw milk for her visit.

Now...if a servant in our house noted that I was unhappy, and decided to make the lamb version for me to make me happier, even though xhe knew that everyone would be joining us for dinner, not -only- would I be even -less- happy, but it would ruin the meal for the rest of the house, so -nobody- would be happy. Food, in our house, is one of those authority things. You don't change the menu or food protocol without speaking with one of the Keepers (or the chatelaine, if we have one at the time) first... period. It doesn't matter -why-, or what benefit you thought you were bringing... if you change the menu, there will be hell to pay. In someone else's house, that might not even be considered an issue -- perhaps the servant decides what will be served, how it will be prepared, and even shops for the ingredients/brands xhe prefers... hir initiative may extend over that chore completely, while in our home, even the smallest issues about which brands and where things are purchased fall under Keeper authority -- and in some areas of our menu/diet, I hold sole authority. Same goes for things like how laundry is done (allergies to fragrances and certain chemicals make which laundry products we use and how they're used critical for us), and how cleaning is managed. It makes our household substantially more 'managed' than someone else's might be -- and knowing where the boundary is between initiative and authority-issues is crucial, and requires time to learn our household well. That is why newcomers to our home have little room for initiative... while a chatelaine might have initiative in areas where we hold authority, but relinquish to hir pool of knowledge about us and how we like to have things done.

This is why the whole issue of "how much initiative can I take, and is it ok to do something I wasn't specifically told -not- to do? " becomes such a mess. In one person's home, the scope of authority is expansive, and finding things that it doesn't cover are few and far between. In another home, the scope of authority is in narrower rings around specific issues... and that is why the only -real- answer to this question comes from talking to the Keeper(s) and learning the patterns of one's own home.

The one thing that Angel mentioned, though, that is more of an inward-looking thing, and that is -really- important is -why-, especially in a new relationship, one would choose not to check in with the authority figure before making changes. The analogy she gave to her own experiences with curfew strike a chord with me over several servants we've had over the years... servants who tended to use the excuse "I was only thinking of the family" to justify unilateral changes or involvement in some scheme that made a -huge- mess... or that they knew, from experience, we weren't going to be happy about. Am I always right in the decisions that I make? No, not by a long shot. However, when something goes wrong in our home, as a Keeper I have accepted that the onus falls on my shoulders. If I screw up, I bear the burdens... but if one of our servants screws up, I am also bound to bear the attendant burdens. Accepting that responsibility means that I expect to have the authority to manage those responsibilities in the way that I believe will best protect our home. For good or bad, if someone usurps that authority, without bearing concomitant responsibility for the outcome, that is not appropriate, and I agree with Angel that, many times, failure to check about something on which there is a question of whether it is a matter of initiative or delves into that area of authority is often because the individual -knows- that what xhe is considering is outside of her area of initiative, and xhe doesn't want to be denied... the idea of "asking forgiveness is easier than asking permission" has no place our home.

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 12/13/2008 12:01:51 PM >


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: How can I give you what is already yours? - 12/13/2008 12:18:04 PM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

I agree with a lot of the people here.  What IS a relationship anyway?  I have served some who wanted simply a target for lack of a better word and I served as such, happily, because I didn't need to be anything more.  It was still a relationship.  In those instances, my suggesting anything would have been unwelcome and that was part of the appeal to me at the time. 

I see the problem as people having the tendancy to assume a D-type is all-knowing, all-seeing, super-human and always knows not only what is best but already knows everything that is pleasing and pleasurable.

I just found out that my Master has never had a s'more.  He would never ask for one since He's never tasted one and doesn't know if it's a good treat or a yukky one.  In the 5 months we have been living together, I have introduced Him to several things He didn't have any previous knowledge of.  He is highly intelligent, extremely worldly, and very wise but He has not experienced every single thing on this planet, so if I waited for Him to tell me what He wanted and never offer Him the benefit of my experiences then I would be withholding potential pleasure.  To me, that would be one of the worst things I could do..withholding anything from Him (especially under the guise of being a good slave) is something I will never do.


I tend to think that sharing experiences are things 'people' do and don't link that to masterly/slavey type of behaviour.

Just by spending time with someone we get introduced to things we haven't experienced.

I've had a lot of *firsts* with M, and he's had a few with me........but they aren't anything to do with M/s but a lot to do with being open to trying new things.

agirl







What is "Masterly / slavery" behaviour?  As opposed to "what people do"?

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: How can I give you what is already yours? - 12/13/2008 1:32:01 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I'm not speaking about my dynamic in relation to anyone elses'. I was very clear about that in an earler post. Any inference is taken by you, not implied by me.

A fair few people have suggested that a person that doesn't spend time *looking for ways to serve*is sat around watching paint dry, twiddling their thumbs; I don't think that they are implying that's what *I* do because I don't take their post personally or as some kind of condescension regarding MY relationship, or anyone else's, like mine.


How is that any worse than saying you don't faff around and your owner is sensible -which clearly says that those who do as you don't faff around and whose owners aren't sensible.

Are you actually reading what I've written? It's now underlined and highlighted in red.

quote:



I didn't infer from your comment ''sometimes the action is sweeter when uncalled for'' that you were being condescending toward me.



I believe the key word in my statement is "sometimes". I did not say "I don't sit around with my thumb up my ass because my owner is sensible enough to let me take care of things without bothering him" which, by your reasoning, would only be talking about my relationship and not insulting to anyone else's. However, I realize that it states without overtly saying that relationships like yours have the owned party sitting around with their thumb up their ass and the owners aren't sensible. It's an untrue statement - even if it is seemingly only a statement about my own.
quote:


Your comment.....**It's not something I could ever have because I would miserable without being able to randomly express my love by offering a backrub or buying him a bag of gummi bears.** ...
... could be viewed as an assumption that acts of affection are absent from my relationship.

I don't see how. I didn't say "The only way I feel love can expressed is through random acts" or "I don't see how people can stay close without random acts of love". I said "I can't be happy without being able to perform random acts of love."
quote:



And I didn't say, at any time, in any way that anyone ELSE is a numbnuts because they do things differently. In fact I've said twice now that I was referring to MY relationship..........I've also said that it's clear that you're content.


It obvious that what constitutes *working at a relationship* means very different things to different people.


Probably though, again, I have no issue with how you work at your relationship. I really do believe that you aren't looking at how you are speaking though. The way you spoke about your own relationship says as much as those who say "I couldn't ever sit around, waiting for paint to dry. My owner is more sensible than that."


The difference here is that I'm not getting bent out of shape by someone else's style of delivery because they haven't typed a disclaimer saying * I am speaking of my relationship. Any refererence to or inference imagined or otherwise is not implied.*

agirl



(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: How can I give you what is already yours? - 12/13/2008 2:07:11 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

I agree with a lot of the people here.  What IS a relationship anyway?  I have served some who wanted simply a target for lack of a better word and I served as such, happily, because I didn't need to be anything more.  It was still a relationship.  In those instances, my suggesting anything would have been unwelcome and that was part of the appeal to me at the time. 

I see the problem as people having the tendancy to assume a D-type is all-knowing, all-seeing, super-human and always knows not only what is best but already knows everything that is pleasing and pleasurable.

I just found out that my Master has never had a s'more.  He would never ask for one since He's never tasted one and doesn't know if it's a good treat or a yukky one.  In the 5 months we have been living together, I have introduced Him to several things He didn't have any previous knowledge of.  He is highly intelligent, extremely worldly, and very wise but He has not experienced every single thing on this planet, so if I waited for Him to tell me what He wanted and never offer Him the benefit of my experiences then I would be withholding potential pleasure.  To me, that would be one of the worst things I could do..withholding anything from Him (especially under the guise of being a good slave) is something I will never do.


I tend to think that sharing experiences are things 'people' do and don't link that to masterly/slavey type of behaviour.

Just by spending time with someone we get introduced to things we haven't experienced.

I've had a lot of *firsts* with M, and he's had a few with me........but they aren't anything to do with M/s but a lot to do with being open to trying new things.

agirl







What is "Masterly / slavery" behaviour?  As opposed to "what people do"?


I've no idea. I was thrown by the idea of withholding potential pleaure.


(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: How can I give you what is already yours? - 12/13/2008 2:25:55 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Hi all,

If you look at what a slave does, it means she still thinks, she still contemplates, she still assesses however, what she does not do is implement without permission. 


Unless of course she has blanket permission to implement changes in certain areas.

Which I do. I have rules which are more important than other rules. This prevents two rules colliding as in the classic example of the house catching fire when she's not supposed to leave. Since take good care of myself is more important, that one is a no brainer, as I hope it is for everyone.

But I also have the rule of take care of him. Which means adding lots of vegetables to dinners and less potatoes despite the fact that he's never met a potato he didn't like. It also means that when he asks for tea at night, I don't ask about substituting decaf because that's part of taking care of him. As is interrupting him when working to have lunch. He doesn't want to be interrupted but he'll get a headache if he skips meals all day so I can implement a change without premission.

Simply because one rule is more important than another.

What I do however, is mention to him that it's decaf so he isn't surprised. But I implement it without permission.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: How can I give you what is already yours? - 12/13/2008 2:43:05 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MisterMonster
But of course, all of this is moot. If I want an outspoken slave, don't I order it? If I want one that doesn't offer any input, don't I order it? Maybe I'm still new, but isn't this how it works?


No.

Because an introvert cannot change into an extrovert just because they're ordered to.

Better if you find someone who is the way you like them to begin with.

And what's with the zombies? Been watching 28 Days and the sequel?

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to MisterMonster)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: How can I give you what is already yours? - 12/13/2008 2:54:41 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline
Good for you, and?  You quoted me acting as if i was saying something negative towards what you do with your man.  Perhaps next time you should quote the WHOLE post if you are going to quote becaue my posts specifically states i am not speaking of all presumed slaveries.  You missed a whole part between the hi all and the sentence you quoted, and didn't indicate so in your post which to me shows me you are simply taking something out of context to say well that's not what we do.  Honestly, i don't care what you do.  My posts are clear on what they speak of and taking a whole sentence out of a couple paragraphs to say well that's not what we do is kinda silly.

So i fail to understand your response to my post.  Again, simply becaue a woman's autonomy is more restricted in application doesn't mean she is well let's see not capable of taking care of herself or him, it doesn't mean she is lacking in common sense, it doesn't mean she is too stupid to make decisions or that she won't make a common sense one when applicable to people's safety or her own, it doesn't mean she will neglect herself in a stupid way, it doesn't mean she won't cook healthy food.  I mean are you seriously this ignorant of this less autonomy type slavery that you seriously don't believe that a slave in this situation DOESN'T or is in capable of taking care of her Master in the same exact what you do?  Do you not get that the concept of STANDING orders tend to be the same concept in such a relationship i speak of that you do?  The biggest difference is the slave begs PERMISSION to make a change in the status quo more so than doing something under the guise of taking care of him and making decisions for him.  You may make him drink decaf, but a less autonomous slave would beg permission to change to decaf so she doesn't have to waste time remaking the coffee if what she is trying to force on him isn't what he actually wants or she doesn't have to watch while he accepts it because he doesn't have time for you to do what you have always done because that's what he wanted.  Taking care of a Man is one thing, but to me when do your decisions become more important than what he desires and wants?  When do you simply do what you want because you feel its best for him even if he wants caffinated versus decaf because you have a standing order to do what you want in taking care of him?  This is less vague in a less autonomous slavery and that was my point it has nothing to do with her intelligence or her ability to decipher, assess or think about things and what would be best or common sense.

Seeing that my post clearly indicate that SOME slaveries do actually have autonomy more restricted -- i don't get your response to one sentence taken out of context of the whole.  My god people, this desperation to make it seem women with less autonomy in a M/s relationship are somehow lacking in the above is pathetic.

Again, my posts were not so everyone can nitpick that they are allowed to do a, b, and c, that was not the point of my post nor in all actuality the slavery i spoke of in that sentence, because my posts were about the SPECIFIC type of slavery that you missed in taking that sentence out of context of the post.
angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 12/13/2008 3:13:15 PM >


_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: How can I give you what is already yours? - 12/13/2008 3:03:14 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl
The difference here is that I'm not getting bent out of shape by someone else's style of delivery because they haven't typed a disclaimer saying * I am speaking of my relationship. Any refererence to or inference imagined or otherwise is not implied.*


There is a large difference between being bent out of shape and choosing to call someone on the fact that they're phrased something rudely. There would be no requirement for a disclaimer if one didn't feel a need to phrase in "my owner does X, Y and Z because he's sensible and we don't fuck about with guessing games/sit around with my thumb up my ass waiting for paint to dry" terms.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: How can I give you what is already yours? - 12/13/2008 5:01:15 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
Do they own all of you?  What if there is some desire the submissive has, but the dominant has no idea it even exists.  How can the dominant exercise authority over that aspect of the submissive if they do not know of it's existance?  On the other hand the dominant may be exercising their authority exactly the way they want and different aspects of the submissive are irrelevant to that.


Ignorance of what is doesn't give a person's the ability to exercise dominance, authority or control over what is.  All I can do is exercise dominance, authority or control over what I am aware of.   I maybe exercising authority exactly the way I want but that is only exactly over what I am aware of.  It is very much like the carpenter that only has and only aware of a hammer and axe to build a house.  It will affect the type of house that he will build.  I have know doubt that such a carpenter could build a rather good house.  But, if along I came and showed him a saw, drill and chisel he is going to build a house is a different way.... IF he chooses too!  It might be that he will continue to build the exact same house.  But here is exercised control by his choice on the knowledge he had.  It wasn't because of ignorance.  A slave or submissive that holds back knowledge or information is to me holding back the Dominant;s ability to make a choice out of knowledge as oppose to one from ignorance.  Just because Kyra and Alandra are mine... doesn't mean that I am always completely aware of everything that will be there in every given moment.  Unless they share what is there that I can't see or know.

Now it might be some are rather content to the way it is now.  Which in of itself might not be a bad thing.  Sometimes Ingnorance is bliss.  Myself... I prefer knowledge

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: How can I give you what is already yours? - 12/14/2008 4:39:45 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl
The difference here is that I'm not getting bent out of shape by someone else's style of delivery because they haven't typed a disclaimer saying * I am speaking of my relationship. Any refererence to or inference imagined or otherwise is not implied.*


There is a large difference between being bent out of shape and choosing to call someone on the fact that they're phrased something rudely. There would be no requirement for a disclaimer if one didn't feel a need to phrase in "my owner does X, Y and Z because he's sensible and we don't fuck about with guessing games/sit around with my thumb up my ass waiting for paint to dry" terms.


I don't consider it rudely phrased. I don't consider it condescending. It's as simple as that Aquaticsub.

agirl





(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 78
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