RE: Threatening or encouraging? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive



Message


MasterTslave -> RE: Threatening or encouraging? (12/13/2008 4:21:54 PM)

I think that is simply unkind.  I would not want to stay with a Master that would do that to me.  I think that if you want someone to work on something or change something...you help them with it...do NOT make them feel like dirt, a slave/sub is a Dom (mme) or Master's greatest treasure...he/she should love his/her slave/sub with all their heart.




BKSir -> RE: Threatening or encouraging? (12/13/2008 5:04:59 PM)

How could that even remotely be considered 'encouragement'?  It's already been rather well proven that, the more someone hears that they're worthless, the more they begin to believe it, which is anything BUT encouragement.  Great way to lead into depression actually, and anyone that has had any experience with depression, either in ones self or people near to them, knows that depression is not exactly a very good way to be motivated toward improvement.

With a sub, it should only have to be stated one time, ONE, that 'these rules will be followed, and there are a couple rules that WILL result in your termination and removal from the household.'.  Any half decent sub will understand that and take it to heart fully, and consider that to be a terror possibly beyond all other terrors.

To have to threaten with that course of action, to even consider it as a form of control, after the first time is tantamount to abuse, plain and simple.

As far as telling them that they'll never be a good sub to anyone, is just preposterous.  There is no such thing as a bad sub or dom, just the wrong sub or dom for a certain individual.  My Dear One has had his issues with owners in the past, they just simply didn't work together.  For myself though, I could never desire or even possibly imagine a better pet.  So, to tell them that is a horrible thing to do to them.  Why would I be motivated to bother changing, if I were told that I'd never amount to anything anyway?  I wouldn't.  Would you?  Would they?  Probably not.

Perhaps a better course of action would be to pinpoint the symptoms, then find the core problem, and then work together on finding a solution that is not only mutually beneficial, but helps your sub to advance, to better him/herself.  Yes, it does require a bit more work and effort than simply saying "You, out!", but, do you not think that it might just be worth it?

If you took a sub in, you took on a responsibility, at least in my opinion.  To me, I have a responsibility to help him grow and learn, just as I do to my four legged fuzzy pets.  To care for him, and nurture him.  Yes, sometimes to spoil him.  Just as an example, many years ago, my partner and I were going through some very tough times financially.  We had very limited food, and absolutely no money.  Well, we also had our kitties.  They were out of cat food, but we were not out of food.  They ate before we did, because they are our responsibility and their well being is first and foremost.  I view my sub, my pet, no differently.  Ones sub is a living, breathing being, with needs and concerns of his/her own, that will sometimes need help, that needs guidance like everyone else.  Not just some cheap t-shirt to be wadded up and thrown away because it has gotten a few stains on it.

I'm not saying that this is how every dom views their sub, I know it's not.  I'm not even saying that they should.  However, I am saying that this is one alternate way to look at the situation. 




swan70 -> RE: Threatening or encouraging? (12/13/2008 5:13:11 PM)

i HAD a Master that did that to me......HAD is the important word.  it was discouraging.  it made me feel like a failure--and why try when i fail???  i got to a point where i felt like i was ONLY failing--never succeeding.  i left!

Also--i kinda like verbal humiliation--but that is not the same thing as this.   

TEACH--teach YOUR sub to succeed for You.  And--using praise when they have earned it goes a long way to getting more of that behavior.





Lordandmaster -> RE: Threatening or encouraging? (12/13/2008 5:20:47 PM)

It's hardly a means of encouragement.

Threatening to dismiss a submissive is not as horrible as some people make it out to be.  There are certain circumstances under which I wouldn't retain ANYONE, and a sub may as well know from the start what's considered intolerable.

But stating that nobody else would ever accept the sub is a sign of weakness.  It involves predicting the future, and mortals usually fail at that.  No one who is confident and secure ever says things that he can't back up personally.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantDestiny25

There has been a lot of discussion about whether or not you should threaten to dismiss a submissive permenantly and tell them that nobody else will ever accept them as they are as a means of encouragement.




BKSir -> RE: Threatening or encouraging? (12/13/2008 5:20:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: swan70
TEACH--teach YOUR sub to succeed for You.  And--using praise when they have earned it goes a long way to getting more of that behavior.




Precisely.  I forgot to bring that point up as well.  I've found, from personal experience, that kindness and encouragement tend to go a LOT farther than fear and threats. 




elegantalexis -> RE: Threatening or encouraging? (12/13/2008 5:48:20 PM)

Encourage me and I am yours, threaten me and I will say adios.  Plain and simple.

Honey is sweeter than vinegar.




LadyPact -> RE: Threatening or encouraging? (12/13/2008 6:03:18 PM)

BK have I mentioned that I like you more and more all of the time.

Just for emphasis, let Me ask the OP again.  Exactly how would you react if you were treated this way?  If your sub was always threatening to leave you because you were a bad Dominant and no other sub would want you?  How would you feel about that?

Let Me tell you how this works in My world.  In any relationship I've ever been in, this tactic doesn't work long with Me. Tell Me on more than one occasion that you want out, and you will get your wish.  The thing is, since I've been told, the very foundation of the relationship is damaged.  My ex-husband pulled that on Me.  It's exactly why he is My ex-husband.  Ask My current husband what if he'd ever tell Me something similar to what you've asked here during an argument. 

By the way, it's well documented that telling someone that no one else would ever want them is a method used by abusive partners to get their SO to stay in the relationship.  Another is telling them that they are worthless.  Both are manipulations to erode a partner's self esteem and make them feel trapped.

I don't know who you're getting advice from, OP, but I hope they mature a bit in their own relationship, for that person's partner's sake.


Edited because the whole concept that this could be "encouraging" messed up My answer. 




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Threatening or encouraging? (12/13/2008 6:04:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
But stating that nobody else would ever accept the sub is a sign of weakness.  It involves predicting the future, and mortals usually fail at that.  No one who is confident and secure ever says things that he can't back up personally.

You do not use it as a threat.  It is a simple fact.  If the only thing keeping a slave in line is the fear of being released, I wouldn't accept them.  I want them to be owned by me, not by their fear.




kiwisub12 -> RE: Threatening or encouraging? (12/13/2008 6:17:56 PM)

Things that work for ME    -   praise when i do well
   praise when i do something right
    praise when i cook a good dinner
      praise when i look nice

acknowledge when i make an effort - even if i screw up

telling me how much it means to you to have me in your life - truthfully, because i am not stupid.

Most people will go to efforts to get positive strokes, so why not go that route?




BKSir -> RE: Threatening or encouraging? (12/13/2008 6:32:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

BK have I mentioned that I like you more and more all of the time.


*blush*  Thank you. :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
By the way, it's well documented that telling someone that no one else would ever want them is a method used by abusive partners to get their SO to stay in the relationship.  Another is telling them that they are worthless.  Both are manipulations to erode a partner's self esteem and make them feel trapped.


A very excellent point there, thank you for bringing that up.  It's really very much a shame that there are those so insecure that they need to do something like that.  It's often a sign that they should, perhaps, seek professional relationship couseling, especially before bringing someone such as a sub into their home and life.

quote:

ORIGINAL:  kiwisub12

Things that work for ME    -   praise when i do well
   praise when i do something right
    praise when i cook a good dinner
      praise when i look nice

acknowledge when i make an effort - even if i screw up

telling me how much it means to you to have me in your life - truthfully, because i am not stupid.

Most people will go to efforts to get positive strokes, so why not go that route?


Thank you, and amen to that.  Even if my Dear One screws up, I appreciate that he at least tried.  I appreciate the effort he puts forth in the house.  And thank him and let him know numerous times every day that he is loved and appreciated.

As the old saying goes, 'It feels good, to feel good.'  If you pat your dog on the head and smile and say "good doggie", you'll get a lot better response, both in the long and the short run, than you will if you constantly yell at it and tie it in the yard.  Positive reinforcement.  It doesn't take a behavioral scientist to figure out that it works wonders.





WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Threatening or encouraging? (12/13/2008 6:42:27 PM)

....it is not encouragement.




Aszhrae -> RE: Threatening or encouraging? (12/13/2008 6:51:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantDestiny25

There has been a lot of discussion about whether or not you should threaten to dismiss a submissive permenantly and tell them that nobody else will ever accept them as they are as a means of encouragement. I am not so sure whether this is a good idea...it has been suggested to me but I just dont know...as submissives how would you feel if a mistress was to threaten you with that?                                                                                                    [sm=thanks.gif]


That will occur come October '09 of next year, it is the reason why girl is here in CM.
As for the highlighted portion, master has told girl that after he had a few drinks. Its the only time he ever goes against what mistress has told master not to do.
Master's words, "No one will want you. We have taken your youth. You are too old now because most mistress' want someone much younger. We have chewed you up and spat you out. You are no good to anyone."
Girl has remained only to serve mistress.
Master can go to hell.
It is because of master that girl will never serve a couple that is male dominated. Though master is not the dominant, when mistress is not around, it used to be physical, girl was given the crap to labor. Girl's health put at risk and for what? Because, mistress decided to take girl on as her pet. Now it is only public humiliation.
Girl has already told master. Once October comes, girl is so gone. Mistress is married to master and good-bye to mistress will very well be the worst day of girl's life.
Mistress was always there to encourage girl to be better. Master did just the opposite, with such words: useless and pathetic.
Not easy being submissive.
Girl stayed only because of mistress.




BKSir -> RE: Threatening or encouraging? (12/13/2008 7:03:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantDestiny25

There has been a lot of discussion about whether or not you should threaten to dismiss a submissive permenantly and tell them that nobody else will ever accept them as they are as a means of encouragement. I am not so sure whether this is a good idea...it has been suggested to me but I just dont know...as submissives how would you feel if a mistress was to threaten you with that?                                                                                                    [sm=thanks.gif]


That will occur come October '09 of next year, it is the reason why girl is here in CM.
As for the highlighted portion, master has told girl that after he had a few drinks. Its the only time he ever goes against what mistress has told master not to do.
Master's words, "No one will want you. We have taken your youth. You are too old now because most mistress' want someone much younger. We have chewed you up and spat you out. You are no good to anyone."
Girl has remained only to serve mistress.
Master can go to hell.
It is because of master that girl will never serve a couple that is male dominated. Though master is not the dominant, when mistress is not around, it used to be physical, girl was given the crap to labor. Girl's health put at risk and for what? Because, mistress decided to take girl on as her pet. Now it is only public humiliation.
Girl has already told master. Once October comes, girl is so gone. Mistress is married to master and good-bye to mistress will very well be the worst day of girl's life.
Mistress was always there to encourage girl to be better. Master did just the opposite, with such words: useless and pathetic.
Not easy being submissive.
Girl stayed only because of mistress.



It's a shame that your master has soured you so much toward male dominant couples, but somewhat understandable.  *HUG*  I do hope that you are able to, if you wish, at some point, reconsider such a thing.  Absolutes are very difficult things to live with.  I do hope you find the happiness you seek and deserve though. 




porcelain26 -> RE: Threatening or encouraging? (12/14/2008 4:05:20 AM)

I've been with dominants who've 'controlled' in the way suggested by the OP. Trust me...it's not fun, it's not encouraging, and it sure as hell didn't make me loyal to them in any way.

My Owner has never ONCE threatened to send me packing. First of all, He doesn't get His rocks off by tearing people apart, which is exactly what that would accomplish. Secondly, He doesn't make threats; He either does something or He doesn't. And last, but I think probably most important, He understands that by doing something like this, He would inspire nothing but insane and unwarranted fear. That type of fear doesn't make good submissives, it doesn't make good people. It only causes insecurity and diminished self-esteem.

I know very few dominants (thankfully) who derive pleasure from causing this kind of emotional hurt. Sure, a lot of dominants want to 'break' their submissives, to tear them down to their most basic self and then rebuild them into something new and better (my own did this with me); but they understand that the best way to accomplish this is through positive reinforcement, punishment when warranted (and in proportion to the crime), and constant communication.

What you've described in the OP is not control. It's even beyond manipulation and boarders on abuse. In my opinion, a good dominant inspires their submissive to improve behavior, and that inspiration is generally based on trust, communication, and love (to whatever degree is present between the two parties). I think if you want to improve the behavior of your submissive, you need to clearly define rules, limitations, and consequences, and then inforce all of those. Now, if you have an exceptionally ill-behaved submissive and you're at your wits end for how to get them to behave....I would still start with the aforementioned suggestions, and if things don't improve. Do not threaten your sub with dismissal....simply do it.




chamberqueen -> RE: Threatening or encouraging? (12/14/2008 5:53:08 AM)

Try putting yourself in the same position.  How would you feel if someone told you the same thing?  While I have worked with subs who were into extreme humiliation that would have enjoyed something like that they were definitely in the minority.

Telling someone, "your behavior is unacceptable", explaining calmly what they have done wrong, and asking them how you can work together to make sure it doesn't happen again would be much more effective.  Perhaps they will need to be dismissed anyway if they cannot change their attitude or behavior but it is your job as their trainer to make sure that they have been taught.






pixidustpet -> RE: Threatening or encouraging? (12/14/2008 6:44:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantDestiny25

There has been a lot of discussion about whether or not you should threaten to dismiss a submissive permenantly and tell them that nobody else will ever accept them as they are as a means of encouragement. I am not so sure whether this is a good idea...it has been suggested to me but I just dont know...as submissives how would you feel if a mistress was to threaten you with that?                                                                                                    [sm=thanks.gif]


as someone who got told that shit on a regular basis by a 'nilla husband till he drove me *literally* to a suicide attempt?

i'd be saying "find a new sub".  period.  that isnt encouraging, that is telling a person that they are nothing.  to my mind, its not anything good in inspiring a person to be more pleasing, more submissive, more accepting of the wacky things we do to please the person on the other side of the slash (speaking as an s-type).

TheEngineer praises me, encourages me, tells me please and thank you, and those things motivate me to do *more* for him, to do what i can to please him, in order to recieve *good* things from him.  good doesnt have to mean a reward, it can mean that i know i've done something to make him happy.  like friday, when i was so scared of going to a company function with him that i was literally shaking....but went anyway.  he told me he was proud of me because he knew how scared i was, and that i tried (we left early) but i TRIED because i wanted to make him proud.

after having dogs as pets, and training them...and being a parent...i'd say that praise and encouragement works better as a motivation than disparagement and punishment ever will.  i've seen much better results all the way around from positive reinforcement than negative.

that doesnt mean that punishment doesnt have its place, it does.  or that "funishment" as a reward isnt a good thing either...it is.  but that if all a person gets is negative feedback, that person isnt going to want to stick around long.  a dominant that never rewarded me (for whatever value of the word "reward" means in the relationship)?  i wouldnt be there long.  it wouldnt be healthy for me.

kitten




KatyLied -> RE: Threatening or encouraging? (12/14/2008 7:38:24 AM)

It's helpful to learn about a person before you attempt to discipline/punish.  Some people react well to carrots, others are in need of the stick.  Sometimes if you offer the carrot at the appropriate time you rarely need the stick (except for fun, of course!)




SassySarijane -> RE: Threatening or encouraging? (12/14/2008 7:40:10 AM)

As someone who heard for years that I was worthless and no one would ever want or like me for who I am, it's that that would have me saying bye bye. The threats to release me wouldn't have anywhere near the effect that that would have. I'd seriously tell them to have a nice life and not to look for me in it in any capacity (not in those words mind you, I'd be much blunter and less nice.) and then I'd move on with my life. Been there, done that and never going back to it again thank you very much.

OP I would seriously consider whether I'd want even friendship with someone who gave you advice like that.




lilmissdefiant -> RE: Threatening or encouraging? (12/14/2008 7:44:28 AM)

I think the OP is asking how can you inspire a sub to be better other than manipulation




Lockit -> RE: Threatening or encouraging? (12/14/2008 9:00:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae

That will occur come October '09 of next year, it is the reason why girl is here in CM.
As for the highlighted portion, master has told girl that after he had a few drinks. Its the only time he ever goes against what mistress has told master not to do.
Master's words, "No one will want you. We have taken your youth. You are too old now because most mistress' want someone much younger. We have chewed you up and spat you out. You are no good to anyone."
Girl has remained only to serve mistress.
Master can go to hell.
It is because of master that girl will never serve a couple that is male dominated. Though master is not the dominant, when mistress is not around, it used to be physical, girl was given the crap to labor. Girl's health put at risk and for what? Because, mistress decided to take girl on as her pet. Now it is only public humiliation.
Girl has already told master. Once October comes, girl is so gone. Mistress is married to master and good-bye to mistress will very well be the worst day of girl's life.
Mistress was always there to encourage girl to be better. Master did just the opposite, with such words: useless and pathetic.
Not easy being submissive.
Girl stayed only because of mistress.



I am sorry... but I cannot believe that any mistress who is always there for her pet, encouraging her etc. would allow another, present or not, to disrupt what she does for her pet and allow her pet to be abused.  Someone messes with my pet... and there will be hell to pay...HELL I tell you!  I could not, would not be with anyone who abused another like that and it wouldn't be the pet being shown to the door... but the abuser.





Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.03125