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SweetEscravo -> Spanking (12/28/2005 11:41:34 PM)

Is it possible for something to be both a punishment or pleasure, depending on how it's done? I love getting spanked by my dom, but only when it's sexual. Kind of. I love how he acts when I've done something wrong, because those are some of the times when he really lets his...domness...out, but at the same time I feel guilty because he is angry over something I've done. We have at least two kinds of spankings I can think of- punishment and play. But, what I'm wondering is this- is it possible for their to be an action that can bya turn on or a punishment depending on how it's done? Are their any toys that are especially painful (and quiet so neighbors don't hear) for punishments? Any tactics doms like to use to make something more of a punishment?



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Spanking (12/29/2005 6:16:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetEscravo
Is it possible for something to be both a punishment or pleasure, depending on how it's done?

Yes. Almost every act can be pleasureable or painful depending on the mindset.

quote:

Are their any toys that are especially painful (and quiet so neighbors don't hear) for punishments?

Punishments don't have to be physical. Taking things away, making you do extra chores, anything can be used as a training device.

As far as not loud toys- needles, clamps, nails, heat, ice..

quote:

Any tactics doms like to use to make something more of a punishment?

Doms generally prefer that the slave becomes more obedient and well trained so that punishment becomes a very rare occurrence. I think if the dom is worried about the punishment, then they aren't focusing on why the punishment is needed to begin with.



Noah -> RE: Spanking (12/29/2005 10:35:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetEscravo

Is it possible for something to be both a punishment or pleasure, depending on how it's done?


A bunch of her favorite flowers, a sincere compliment, a little kiss on the cheek. Anything can be a punishment. It isn't the gift but the thought that counts.

If he wants to punish you--or simply wants to hurt you for his own pleasure--and if your submission to him is of a certain depth and kind--then all that is necessary is that he inform you that what is coming is punishment, or meant to hurt.


"You forgot (for instance) your manners today, didn't you?"

You presumably already feel somehting negative immediately upon realizing that you've neglected a chance to please him, perhaps even a particular commitment you have explicitly dedicated yourself to in his name.

"I'm disappointed in you."

Once he has realized your failure and expressed his realization then you might well feel the sting of chastisement, regardless of whether he uses the above expression or some other.

"Now I'm going to do something to punish you."

Or he might say: to help you focus more consisently in the future. There area number of ways to narrate the dynamic, because this dynamic which we might call a transformative one can be present in almost any sort of relationship--but you spoke in terms of punishment and so I will too.

"I've gone out just now for a little walk and picked a small bouquet for you. Daises and buttercups and queen anne's lace were all in bloom so I picked some of each for you. Don't smile. I don't want you to feel good about these flowers. They are waiting for you in a vase on your dresser."

"Remember the very pretty girl in school and the handsome, popular boy who were carelessly unkind to you? People who were carelessly unkind and who, when they saw the effect on you of their unkindness proceeded to be mean to you just for sport? If you can't see these people in your memory, see them in your mind's eye. Feel what the girl they were picking on felt. When you look at them in the aftermath of their unkindnesses, can you see their attractiveness without seeing their ugliness? Can you even see their attractiveness at all?"

"The flowers in the vase on your dresser are your punishment for being so careless and thoughtless in respect to what you know I desire; what you know pleases me."

"Now I would like you to slowly climb the stairs, go to your room, stand at your dresser and look at these flowers I picked for you... and don't see their prettiness. They aren't a token of my affection for you. These flowers are your punishment. Look at them but don't see their prettiness. Bend and sniff them but don't smell their sweetness. Stand and look at them a while. It's okay for you to note their freshness."

"Think about how disappointment feels when it is fresh."

"Notice that the flowers were placed in their little vase with no water. This week, each morning when you get up, and each night before bed, don't water the flowers. Don't water them. Each day this week I would like you to think about what happens to things when not enough care is taken for them."

"Now go and look at your flowers."

Of course, if your relationship has evolved to a certain point of intimacy, this punishment could be delivered with far fewer words, or just a look.

This morning, for instance, I gave a girl a certain kind of kiss.






SwedishPhoenix -> RE: Spanking (12/29/2005 10:46:16 AM)

I like to use the adrenaline pump, uncertainty, and helplessness experienced in psychological punishments, such as knife play... if performed corectly, knife play can be quite humbling and fear-inspiring, followed by a very pleasureable release...



plantlady64 -> RE: Spanking (12/29/2005 11:20:41 AM)

HelloThere,
For me my spankings are good girl spankings only. My painful punishment comes from knowing I've dissapointed my Master. Knowing I dissapointed him to me is way worse than a beating that made me bleed would be (and I'm not into pain).
So far (thank God) I've only been punished twice. Once we were in public and he pinched the crap out of my nipple. The second time I had to get out of bed and clean the whole house spotless in the middle of the night.
Even then the punishment was not near as hard for me as the fact I'd displeased my Master.

Spanking stinging things that are quiet would be coat hangers wrapped in electrical tape & canes. They hurt badly or can be nice depending on your Master's desire and they are pretty quiet.
Sincerley,
sub suzanne



MrBiguun51 -> RE: Spanking (12/29/2005 11:56:58 AM)

I have known subs that would intentionally do small things wrong just to get a spanking. These spankings would be both pleasure and punishment to the sub.

If however the sub did something really wrong, then a cane would be used. The use of the cane would be for punishment only and and the punishment harsh and severe. A gag migh also be needed to muffle the sound of the sub

plantlady64 I have a question
I would have thought that wrapping the cane or coat hanger in electrical tape would make the punishment even more severe
I can see where the sounds of the punishment might be quieter though
I am also guessing that the coat hanger is a metal 1 bent into a loop so that it will leave 2 marks across the sub's bare ass when applied



Nendarye -> RE: Spanking (12/29/2005 12:00:57 PM)

The disappointment in knowing that I have let down Master is punishment enough. Always, after discussing my behavior, and attempting to find the reasons behind it, he then will punish me so that I never forget what has happened. But he has never used caning or spanking as a punishment. More often than not, the disappointment on his face and his eyes is enough to bring me to tears.



MrBiguun51 -> RE: Spanking (12/29/2005 12:04:11 PM)

plantlady64 I have a question
I would have thought that wrapping the cane or coat hanger in electrical tape would make the punishment even more severe
I can see where the sounds of the punishment might be quieter though
I am also guessing that the coat hanger is a metal 1 bent into a loop so that it will leave 2 marks across the sub's bare ass when applied



angelicalistical -> RE: Spanking (12/29/2005 12:17:58 PM)

i agree with the others who state simply knowing we have disappointed is enough, but at the same time i can relate well to something that is used for punishment as also being used in play, and i definiatly know there is a difference... for example during a play scene when Master might spank me there is the warm *cuddle* strokes in between the furious rasp of stokes placed upon my tail (along with the fact that usually in play i find myself across my Masters knee) ...all wonderful experiences in comparison to the consistant and rather harsh repitition of heated strokes that accomodate the "bend over the bed, chair, or what have you" when punishment is about to insue.

personally though i think a favorite example is the bath time scene... just imagine the good...and then imagine how you might feel for being so naughty, dirty, filthy...what have you...

goes both ways *weg* (and its quiet)



krikket -> RE: Spanking (12/29/2005 12:24:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetEscravo

Is it possible for something to be both a punishment or pleasure, depending on how it's done?


A bunch of her favorite flowers, a sincere compliment, a little kiss on the cheek. Anything can be a punishment. It isn't the gift but the thought that counts.

If he wants to punish you--or simply wants to hurt you for his own pleasure--and if your submission to him is of a certain depth and kind--then all that is necessary is that he inform you that what is coming is punishment, or meant to hurt.


"You forgot (for instance) your manners today, didn't you?"

You presumably already feel somehting negative immediately upon realizing that you've neglected a chance to please him, perhaps even a particular commitment you have explicitly dedicated yourself to in his name.

"I'm disappointed in you."

Once he has realized your failure and expressed his realization then you might well feel the sting of chastisement, regardless of whether he uses the above expression or some other.

"Now I'm going to do something to punish you."

Or he might say: to help you focus more consisently in the future. There area number of ways to narrate the dynamic, because this dynamic which we might call a transformative one can be present in almost any sort of relationship--but you spoke in terms of punishment and so I will too.

"I've gone out just now for a little walk and picked a small bouquet for you. Daises and buttercups and queen anne's lace were all in bloom so I picked some of each for you. Don't smile. I don't want you to feel good about these flowers. They are waiting for you in a vase on your dresser."

"Remember the very pretty girl in school and the handsome, popular boy who were carelessly unkind to you? People who were carelessly unkind and who, when they saw the effect on you of their unkindness proceeded to be mean to you just for sport? If you can't see these people in your memory, see them in your mind's eye. Feel what the girl they were picking on felt. When you look at them in the aftermath of their unkindnesses, can you see their attractiveness without seeing their ugliness? Can you even see their attractiveness at all?"

"The flowers in the vase on your dresser are your punishment for being so careless and thoughtless in respect to what you know I desire; what you know pleases me."

"Now I would like you to slowly climb the stairs, go to your room, stand at your dresser and look at these flowers I picked for you... and don't see their prettiness. They aren't a token of my affection for you. These flowers are your punishment. Look at them but don't see their prettiness. Bend and sniff them but don't smell their sweetness. Stand and look at them a while. It's okay for you to note their freshness."
"Think about how disappointment feels when it is fresh."

"Notice that the flowers were placed in their little vase with no water. This week, each morning when you get up, and each night before bed, don't water the flowers. Don't water them. Each day this week I would like you to think about what happens to things when not enough care is taken for them."

"Now go and look at your flowers."



Your post makes me ache --- and feel haunted by what was and will never be again...



Focus50 -> RE: Spanking (12/29/2005 3:09:06 PM)

Spankings or floggings etc can certainly be either pleasure or punishment but shouldn't be allowed to be both at once. Enjoying any punishment means the "punishment" isn't working. But that's not a sub's fault or problem, it's entirely the Dom's domain to set the required head-space for the sub.

I mostly prefer a bit of corner time as punishment as not allowing my sub to serve or please me usually has the desired effect.... And no problems with the neighbours, either!

Whatever the punishment, I make sure it always ends with a big hug and no grudges! Serving a punishment to my satisfaction still becomes an act of pleasing me, justifying the hug etc....

Focus.



snowgirlsub -> RE: Spanking (12/30/2005 2:42:41 AM)


My old boyfriend spanked me for play and punishment.

A play spanking consisted of a nice long warm-up with many affectionate caresses. There was also a lot of rubbing between blows. The spanking never really hurt…sure it stung a bit…but we both found it to be very arousing and enjoyable.

A punish spanking was entirely different. I was never given a warm-up and was spanked a great deal harder than I find comfortable or exciting. There was no physical pleasure what so ever. Punishment spankings were painful and humiliating.

Snow





plantlady64 -> RE: Spanking (12/30/2005 3:12:18 AM)

Hello Sir,
I was not refering to wrapping a cane in tape. The cane is quiet enough on it's own.
The reason I'd wrap the coat hanger in tape is so it will abrade the skin less. I actually feel wrapping it in tape makes it hurt less.
Yes that would be to open a hanger up, bend it in a loop, wrap the end the Dom holds in a washcloth(for cmfort), and have fun.
For me as mentioned prior I am not punished in this fashion, but rather played with in ways my Master and I would both enjoy.
Yes, both of these instruments can be great instruments of punishment, but they can also be great sources of quiet pleasure as well.
Sncerely,
sub suzanne



MHOO314 -> RE: Spanking (12/30/2005 6:02:25 AM)

I use spanking for both, however, there is a marked difference--the implements used for punishment are never used in play and usually hang in the open, or where the eye sees them every day--there is no "warm" up and no after care--those used for play stay in the toy bag for play only.

Green switches work well and one can have the sub go and select one off the tree--I use old fashioned butter paddles or a specially purchased belt--minor infractions get a wooden spoon.



MrBiguun51 -> RE: Spanking (12/30/2005 9:05:25 AM)

Thanks plantlady64

after you have made a loop with the coat hanger
bring the 2 open ends together
take a pair of pliers and twist them together about 4 incehs

now take a piece of 2 X 2 or a three limb 1 to 2 inches in diameter
drill a hole and put epoxy glue or gorilla glue in the hole
now insert twisted ends of coat hanger
let dry you now have a good handle
now take a good sharp knife or sander and shape the handle to fit
your hand
now sand smooth by hand
stain the handle
apply pollyurthene (hope i spelled right got to watch for spelling police)
or wrap in black electrical tape or wrap with latigo



Noah -> RE: Spanking (12/30/2005 9:15:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: krikket

Your post makes me ache --- and feel haunted by what was and will never be again...



If your partner has died I'm very sorry for your loss.

If instead you are referring to a certain sort of experience that will never be recapitulated in your life then you are engaging in some self-flagellation which is probably pointless, based as it is on an implicit claim to know what the future holds for you.

What the future holds for you may eclipse any experience you have previously known. It isn't an uncommon theme here but it is an unfortunate one, played out by submissives and dominant's alike. It is unfortunate and frankly, unseemly. I'm talking about this crystal ball gazing, making impossible pronouncements about one's future.

The child sits on her booster chair contemplating a new and completely unfamiliar dish: "This is gonna taste awful and I'm gonna hate it and I don't want it." If the parent handles the transaction improperly the child may work herself into a state in which nothing could possibly taste good. The little prophet will make her prophecy true. But as grown-ups we are aware that the child can't see the future. She doesn't know what it is going to taste like, nor whether she will like it until that future moment comes.

The adult sits at her keyboard imagining that she is contemplating the rest of her life when actually she is attending to a hurt. The hurt may require attention, may need energy to be poured into it so that an appropriate closure can be reached. It is fine to wallow for a while as long as we don't lie to ourselves. Any statement about how the future will be is either a vow or a confusion--something close to a lie.

If you have vowed never to have a certain kind of experience again, you may be able to keep that vow, If during a not unhealthy period of wallowing you get into a habit of stating categorically what the future holds or does not hold for you, and if you carry this bad habit out beyond your bereavement, well, this may be even more effective than a vow as a means of limiting yourself and your future possibilities, the natural extent of which is by its nature unknowable.

krikket if you have lost a beloved partner I am very sorry. I wish you the best in your grieving and in moving beyond your grieving.

It is true that a particular event can never be recreated. It is also true that what is fundamentally valuable in an experience can come again, manifested in similar or very different ways. Lightning does strike twice and any more times than twice; that's what lightning rods are for. But you can't make a lightning rod of yourself by hiding in a low place. Or by denying a truth such as: we don't know what our future holds.

Whatever the events were that inspired your despair in this regard, I believe that you can transcend them and be graced by whatever powers you believe in with new experiences which can more than redeem your pain and longing.




michaelGA -> RE: Spanking (12/30/2005 9:21:59 AM)

i've been on this site for a long time and, thus far, haven't met anyone in real life. maybe i'm too much of a brat...but, hey...it's a spankless job, somebody's gotta do it [8D][:D]



LadyKim -> RE: Spanking (12/30/2005 9:31:28 AM)

It really depends on how someone defines punishment and pleasure. There are times when I am playing around with a sub and use something minor they did to start a scene as a playful punishment; however, if a submissive does something I believe needs to be corrected with serious punishment then it will NOT have any pleasure for the submissive or me. I tend to steer clear of bdsm impliments during what I call true punishments. Since it is a behavior I find offensive, I take no pleasure in knowing my submissive did it, and I do not want him going around repeating the behavior to get attention. Therefore, true punishments to me are things that guarantee the submissive knows the type of attention they get for the behavior is NOT the type of attention they want from me.

MzKim



Focus50 -> RE: Spanking (12/30/2005 3:27:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyKim

It really depends on how someone defines punishment and pleasure. There are times when I am playing around with a sub and use something minor they did to start a scene as a playful punishment; however, if a submissive does something I believe needs to be corrected with serious punishment then it will NOT have any pleasure for the submissive or me. I tend to steer clear of bdsm impliments during what I call true punishments. Since it is a behavior I find offensive, I take no pleasure in knowing my submissive did it, and I do not want him going around repeating the behavior to get attention. Therefore, true punishments to me are things that guarantee the submissive knows the type of attention they get for the behavior is NOT the type of attention they want from me.

MzKim

I go along with this.... Scening is predominantly when I'm in the mood. But the girl has her ways, too! She can always ask but mostly she'll do something a little brattish that causes me to "lock phasers" and act. And I'm comfortable with that despite those who might incorrectly believe she's topping from the bottom. Fact is, I'm mostly a fun person even in "Dom mode" and I prefer a sub with a bit of attitude and mischief about her. And I enjoy the opportunity to pull back on the leash as much as lead with it....

I define the difference between meting out punishment or discipline as being the mood her actions have brought out in me.... If I'm angry, there'll be a punishment that rarely includes toys or attention in general, hence I prefer the corner. But discipline is a whole other matter and I love pulling her into line when it's deserved - we both do!

Focus.



kyraofMists -> RE: Spanking (12/30/2005 5:59:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetEscravo
I love how he acts when I've done something wrong, because those are some of the times when he really lets his...domness...out, but at the same time I feel guilty because he is angry over something I've done.


This will take the thread slightly off topic, but when I read this line I thought of my own interactions with my Lord. He has rarely been angry at me (maybe once or twice) but he has gotten annoyed, frustrated and often given me a mental kick in the ass. I would not say that I love these times, I often cry over disappointing him and generally feel pretty miserable. However, I also get sexually aroused. When he uses that tone of voice and cadence of speech I get turned on. I think my favorite line is “Do you understand?” It twists me up in all kinds of ways. I have many feelings when he asks this question - annoyance, frustration, stubbornness, controlled, and aroused. Part of me would love to take this interaction and turn it into play. I know that my Lord has been fantasizing of a school girl scene and I think being chastised by him would be hot.

*wanders away thinking of ways to be a naughty school girl…

Knight's kyra



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