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Terms and Use of techniques - 12/29/2005 1:12:51 PM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		We have as late talked much of "true submissiveness" versus, I dont know--wannabes I guess and non true--whatever that means--well in some cases it means something--so I put forth some ideas below:

Dominant versus Domineering--too often I see posts that are a result of a hurt sub that has run into someone domineering, not Dominant--IMHO there is a huge difference --I dont see domineering being part of the D/dynamic equation--Opinions?

And do you ( Dominants) use you D "skills" in the vanilla population?

Sadistic versus abusive--not being dramatically sadistic--I get concerned with sadism versus abuse--earlier this week, I read a post that said (paraphrase)--I am sadistic, I use it on everyone because I am sadistic, so friends come and go--but I am.. I wonder about sadism and when or does it cross the line--and do you use it on the unsuspecting masses?

How do you deal with your "side" when you walk out the door?



< Message edited by MHOO314 -- 12/29/2005 1:14:45 PM >

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RE: Terms and Use of techniques - 12/29/2005 1:18:06 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314
Dominant versus Domineering--too often I see posts that are a result of a hurt sub that has run into someone domineering, not Dominant--IMHO there is a huge difference --I dont see domineering being part of the D/dynamic equation--Opinions?

Domineering can be as much a part of the D/s dynamic just as much as being perpetually late.

It sucks, but it doesn't mean the person isn't ALSO a dominant.

I tend to be wary of "hurt subs" who bad mouth ex's. A lot of times they are just hiding their own rash behavior and trying to blame the consequences onsomeone else.
quote:


And do you ( Dominants) use you D "skills" in the vanilla population?

Just about everyone has "typically dominant" skills that come into place in the "world at large." Skills have nothing to do with orientation. A slave can wield a whip as well as a master. One's individual personality and life situation also have little to do with one's orientation.

quote:

I wonder about sadism and when or does it cross the line--and do you use it on the unsuspecting masses?

To me it crosses the line when the person feels it takes away from their sense of well-being. Sadly, it leaves it in the hands of one person who is not telepathic to the other person. But it is how it is.

Not sure what you mean by use it on the unsuspecting masses? Do I push pins into my coworkers to get a laugh? No.
quote:


How do you deal with your "side" when you walk out the door?

The same way I do when I walk in the door. I don't divide my life like that. I AM who I AM. Different situations call for different expressions of behavior.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MHOO314)
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RE: Terms and Use of techniques - 12/29/2005 1:30:35 PM   
Nendarye


Posts: 147
Joined: 12/23/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

IMHO there is a huge difference --I dont see domineering being part of the D/dynamic equation--Opinions?


To me, Domineering ...that is nothing more than an ego trip...someone who takes control away from another by force, often for selfish reasons...where as being dominant is taking control of someone or a situation with the best intentions for all involved. This is just how I look at it though.

quote:

Sadistic versus abusive


Again, this is only my perception and opinion....sadistic to me, is more of a state of mind...Master would call himself a sadist...he enjoys inflicting pain, whether it be physical, or something more mental; but it is always alongside of the love and care that he feels for a person. It is balanced. Abusive, on the other hand, to me, is a person who cares not for the person that they are inflicting the pain upon. They care only for themselves, and the self-gratification that they are receiving from the action.

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@~~Proud property of Master Michael~~@

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RE: Terms and Use of techniques - 12/29/2005 1:56:34 PM   
CallMeMister


Posts: 3
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I think this is an important distinction. As a relatively new Dominant with little experience, I'm most curious about how other handle the lines between sadism/abuse and the like. It's hard to tell, from other people's accounts of situations, whether or not it is inherently a bad thing to be selfish or fulfilling of one's own needs. To me, it seems like an issue left up to the individual. There are certainly a number of subs out there who seem interested in being used and abused with little regard for their well-being. This may be a false interpretation, but it's what I have gleemed. Which is why it seems very difficult to comprehend these kinds of issues.

(in reply to Nendarye)
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RE: Terms and Use of techniques - 12/29/2005 2:02:31 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		I think "domineering" is negative when used in a vanilla sense and is probably the lead-in for abuse. Whether it's positive or negative in a lifestyle sense is probably best defined by how it leaves the sub emotionally and spiritually after. There is certainly a line between dominating and abusing but it's not in the same place for every Dom/sub.

And I definitely dominate vanilla women, but 99% only in a light-hearted manner with friends and acquaintances! I'm just flirting with them and to get a reaction. Funny how often suggesting they could use a good spanking gets a smile of interest rather than shock! But generally I do it to play up the "male chauvinist pig" stereotype for a bit of fun - to get a bite.... Nothing like being in a crowd and telling the girls to "Keep it down, MEN are talking here!" lol

Your sadist example leaves me cold. He sounds like an arsehole to me and I already know he does NOT use it on everyone - no-one can fight that well and abusers are cowards, anyway!

Focus.

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RE: Terms and Use of techniques - 12/29/2005 2:12:20 PM   
Nendarye


Posts: 147
Joined: 12/23/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

I'm most curious about how other handle the lines between sadism/abuse and the like


Master is a sadist. He inflicts pain every chance he gets. But I ALWAYS know that he cares for me, and that his love will NEVER not be there. If he did not care for me as he does, and if he was not giving me something in return ( I like the pain he inflicts ), then it would be nothing more than abuse. Another distinction is that he is always in control, and he NEVER, NEVER tries to hit, or inflict pain while in anger, or while angry.

_____________________________

" You may be suffering, but you will always suffer with love"

@~~Proud property of Master Michael~~@

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RE: Terms and Use of techniques - 12/29/2005 2:20:04 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I tend to be wary of "hurt subs" who bad mouth ex's. A lot of times they are just hiding their own rash behavior and trying to blame the consequences onsomeone else.

I'd seriously question your "lot of times" quantification.... Too many do get abused and much like the world at large, it's the "whistle-blower" who's demonised.

Frankly, I'd suggest that most subs are more likely to blame themselves when it's NOT true or justified. And it's difficult for a Dom to deal with if she's holding it in - especially if we're talking about the next Dom in her life....

But who really knows the numbers?

Focus.

< Message edited by Focus50 -- 12/29/2005 2:21:37 PM >

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RE: Terms and Use of techniques - 12/29/2005 3:15:27 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Dominant versus Domineering--too often I see posts that are a result of a hurt sub that has run into someone domineering, not Dominant--IMHO there is a huge difference --I dont see domineering being part of the D/dynamic equation--Opinions?


Hmm, well...from my POV

Dominant and domineering are pretty much the same personalities...it is just HOW they are used that it becomes a problem. Most Masters and Dominants that I know are EXTREMELY domineering in their day to day life. The problem arises when someone comes along and says 'hey I am a dominant' and then attempts to become that domineering personality. It always backfires because they are NOT ready to take the responsibility that comes with the claim.

quote:

Sadistic versus abusive--not being dramatically sadistic--I get concerned with sadism versus abuse--earlier this week, I read a post that said (paraphrase)--I am sadistic, I use it on everyone because I am sadistic, so friends come and go--but I am.. I wonder about sadism and when or does it cross the line--and do you use it on the unsuspecting masses?


Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh sadists..........makes me feel all yummy inside just thinking about them

there is a huge difference between a sadist and an abuser. A sadist takes responsibility for his/her actions, an abuser lays the blame on someone else.

(in reply to MHOO314)
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RE: Terms and Use of techniques - 12/29/2005 3:38:08 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		I not going to get into the whole of your post... but I will provide some comments specifically towards being a sadist and sadism in general. I will start by providing some specific definitions that apply to the SM our lifestyle and the conventional understanding of the terms.

Sadism is an act in which gratification is obtained by inflicting physical or
mental pain on a Consenting Moral and Healthy Person(s) and/or on oneself.

Sadist is a Moral and Healthy person who gains gratification from
inflicting pain upon a Consenting Moral and Healthy Person(s) and/or on
oneself.

Masochism is an act in which gratification is gained by enduring the
infliction of physical and mental pain by a Consenting Moral and Healthy
Person(s) and/or by oneself.

Masochist is a Consenting Moral and Healthy person that gains pleasure from
pain inflicted upon them by a Consenting Moral and Healthy Person(s) and/or
by oneself.


These definitions in essence wrap around each other. It for me is important to consider that sadistic/masocistic acts that would be acceptable to me would contain three basic components. Consenting People. Moral People & Healthy People I will continue to add that what is Consent, Moral and Healthy is a subjective understanding by the individuals involved. We can apply some basic universal understanding that are generally acceptable as a social entity, but these are generally very difficult to obtain and establish. Secondly, time as a way of changing our understanding. I recall a thread that shared Age of Consent... a foundation block to consent... one saw a variety of what would be considered the appropriate age for consent. That is for today... go back in time the differences might even be greater... what will the future bring I don't know. But I do know what is consent, moral and healthy is for me... and even that is subject to change with new perspectives and thoughts gain by experiences enjoy thru the passage of time.



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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Terms and Use of techniques - 12/29/2005 3:56:52 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I am the Queen of Everything, everywhere. But, I am also willing to do pretty much any task on the job, and my staff knows it! I worked hard to be less of a my way or the highway kind of person, and less intellectually arrogant. I am still a bulldozer, though! If I never touched a toy again, I would still be a dominant, 24/7.

I am only a consensual sadist---so that doesn't happen outside of scenes. It took me a long time to identify as a sadist, because to me, what I did had nothing to do with the folks who torment small children and animals.

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RE: Terms and Use of techniques - 12/29/2005 4:30:51 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
"Domineering" is a lack dominance. A truly dominant woman doesn't have to be domineering.

To me, "domineering" is:

a. poor use of authority
b. a lack of faith in one's partner
c. "pushing," "overbearing," "loud"
d. disempowered
e. nagging

---

"Dominant" is:

a. Efficient use of authority
b. Trust in one's partner
c. "quiet," "confident," "understated"
d. Empowered
f. instilling

---


(in reply to MHOO314)
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RE: Terms and Use of techniques - 12/29/2005 4:49:57 PM   
Aesop35


Posts: 7
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: West Plains, MO
Status: offline 		It's been my experience that domineering people get their way at the expense of others, while Dominant people get their way with the consent of others.

With that definition in mind, using my 'D' skills outside a scene in the 'real world' is a natural consequence of being a Dominant. If being confident and self-assured, without being arrogant or egotistical are 'D' skills, then they apply to my whole life.

My two centavos,

Aesop35

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RE: Terms and Use of techniques - 12/29/2005 4:57:17 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		In the vanilla or as I like to say mundane world I am either a leader or a loner -- I'm not much of a follower.

However I lead as I teach, though well-reasoned opinions and modeling. I've noticed that I can just be in a room or at a munch or something and when I talk, people listen. I don't need to dance or raise by vote or tell folks to "do something" -- I am just myself.

Could I be a sadist with others or being bossy with others? For me, consent is my defining rule, the one thing I hold myself most accountable too. I have even control over myself to not let that rule down. Frankly I really don't try that hard, I'm just me.

I think a lot of dominants feel like they have this image they must meet and I think when a person is more concerned with image, they lose themselves and they can become what you call domineering in the vanilla world.

I can't claim that I don't care about my image but I try not to be anything other than myself. Other dominants I respect and who have mentored me did likewise and it seems so natural to them that I consider being true to myself to be a good model for me to follow.

*babbling again*


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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: Terms and Use of techniques - 12/29/2005 7:53:01 PM   
MasterBenedict


Posts: 309
Status: offline 		I try to be at least polite-at ALL TIMES

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RE: Terms and Use of techniques - 12/29/2005 8:20:06 PM   
Misstoyou


Posts: 1149
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

And do you ( Dominants) use you D "skills" in the vanilla population?



Dominant behavior = "good classroom management skills" evaluations, and no student has yet been brave enough to cuss at me. lol

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a.k.a. "mean Lady"


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RE: Terms and Use of techniques - 12/29/2005 8:43:38 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Can we dream so far to........(in our secret ganglion) utter beatych? or however they spell it?

Enamourously,
Thor the hammer of your soul

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Terms and Use of techniques - 12/29/2005 9:24:39 PM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

I think a lot of dominants feel like they have this image they must meet and I think when a person is more concerned with image, they lose themselves and they can become what you call domineering in the vanilla world

I'll agree that there are dominants that try to conform to some stereotype of what is expected of them; perhaps it does make them domineering, but I also think that by trying to conform like that they are actually being submissive.

< Message edited by happypervert -- 12/29/2005 9:25:31 PM >

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RE: Terms and Use of techniques - 12/29/2005 10:42:07 PM   
Misstoyou


Posts: 1149
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Can we dream so far to........(in our secret ganglion) utter beatych? or however they spell it?

Enamourously,
Thor the hammer of your soul


And when a guy can wield a hammer that size, even a "beatych" sits up and takes notice. lol

_____________________________

~ Miss Marie

a.k.a. "mean Lady"


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RE: Terms and Use of techniques - 12/29/2005 11:01:29 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		You; Miss Marie...........

are not a myth, unless you and I believe in fairytales,

My regards to you,

Ron

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Terms and Use of techniques - 12/29/2005 11:22:22 PM   
passionfirenmo


Posts: 38
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		Cloudboy,,,,,Well said......i couldn't agree more !

Have fun Stay well,
passion
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


"Domineering" is a lack dominance. A truly dominant woman doesn't have to be domineering.

To me, "domineering" is:

a. poor use of authority
b. a lack of faith in one's partner
c. "pushing," "overbearing," "loud"
d. disempowered
e. nagging

---

"Dominant" is:

a. Efficient use of authority
b. Trust in one's partner
c. "quiet," "confident," "understated"
d. Empowered
f. instilling

---




(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 20
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