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RE: How can I keep from getting fired? - 12/16/2008 2:47:18 PM   
angelikaJ


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find out what the laws in your state are... and what your rights are as far as your employment records... however, you kind of dropped the ball when you let them make changes in your initial status re: the health of your back. Your statement was very clear (unless you waffled) and if they had hired you with full and documented knowledge you would have had some protections under the Americans with Disabilities Act. 

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RE: How can I keep from getting fired? - 12/16/2008 2:55:40 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MisterMonster

This is why I hate Uncle Sam sometimes. I will never side with him against people like this.

Seriously, do you need the money? Does Sir not support you? I mean, assuming you can't sue these fuckers like crazy, you should just get out of there.


Yeah, I need the money. My Sir lost his job he worked at for 10 years a few months before he met me. He's now a non-traditional college student majoring in accounting. He survives on student loans, his wages at Walmart, and whatever income I bring in. He won't be able to take the CPA exam to make more money until he gets his bachelors. Maybe then he could support me while I look for work, but his bachelors is about 3 years away. I'd love to sue the assholes, but I can't afford an attorney and I'm sure the company has its own attorney. A similar situation happened to my stepmother a few years ago. She was injured at work (a hospital) and got workers comp. Then they fired her saying she couldn't do the job instead of putting her in a different position like they could have. My father was advised not to take them to court because against the whole team of lawyers hospitals have chances of winning the case were slim. When I told my father about my situaton, he reminded me of what happened to my stepmother, said it wasn't my fault but he didn't know what to tell me. Then he said that's what happens when you work for a place that doesn't have a union. Union jobs are almost nonexistant in the republican state of Kansas so how the hell am I supposed to find a union? lol

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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RE: How can I keep from getting fired? - 12/16/2008 3:03:55 PM   
housesub4you


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I understand you're blaming them,  But in fairness you should have had everything written down. 

Do you qualify for disabled lic. plates for your car?  Being injured is not always considered disabled. 

If you have the plates and the medical history (before you where hired) to support your claim, then you have a paper trail to fall back on.  If you do not, then what you have is a very hard lesson learned.  Get everything in writing.

Also look into agenies that offer free legal work for people, it takes 1 google search to find them in your area.



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RE: How can I keep from getting fired? - 12/16/2008 3:09:22 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

you kind of dropped the ball when you let them make changes in your initial status re: the health of your back.


I had to agree that I could work at all the places or be terminated on the spot. I had no choice. With Sir's meager income, I have to bring money into the household. I think they want me to screw up my back and try to file workers comp so they can fire me. That's why they are lying about the position being open that won't injure my back. In fact, since I didn't voluntarily quit  (which is what they were hoping for), they may tell all the house managers not to call me when they need someone to fill in. No hours means no pay and basically forces me to quit.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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RE: How can I keep from getting fired? - 12/16/2008 3:21:44 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

Do you qualify for disabled lic. plates for your car?  Being injured is not always considered disabled. 


No, I'm not disabled. The disk is prone to tearing and it only disables me when it tears. I can move around unrestricted as long as my disk isn't torn. That's why the doctor I went to before I moved told me I would always have to be careful. He told me I needed a job where I was doing a combination of standing and sitting. If I stand too long, my back tightens and I get cramps. If I sit too long, it isn't good either.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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RE: How can I keep from getting fired? - 12/16/2008 3:57:59 PM   
BlackPhx


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If it comes down to a court case the application (Which you signed) will be produced they have to produce the original..same for the doctors records. Courts and Lawyers are good at ferreting out alterations to official documents. Banks of lawyers are no guarantee that a company is going to win and you don't always have to have copies of your applications ( doesn't hurt but most places have you fill them out there so getting a copy isn't easy). You either fight for your rights, or you don't. You can only win or lose. However to those whose empathy vanished with the desire to buy one of the houses an artificial  Xmas tree..a 20 lb tree weighs a lot less than a 250 lb patient. Having compassion for others is not a crime.

poenkitten



< Message edited by BlackPhx -- 12/16/2008 4:06:06 PM >

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RE: How can I keep from getting fired? - 12/16/2008 4:12:44 PM   
housesub4you


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"He's now a non-traditional college student majoring in accounting. He survives on student loans,"

What do you consider a non traditional student?  I went to college when I was 35 and though I went to a traditional 4 yr college they have programs for older students that takes into account your work and life history. 

I had to take my Major courses but for most of the others I could test out or they have programs that you write about your breath of knowledge and earn credit.  This cut 2.5 yrs off me earning my 4 yr degree.  I don't kow if he will be able to do this but it is well worth looking into  

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RE: How can I keep from getting fired? - 12/16/2008 4:30:11 PM   
TNstepsout


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Offer to take a pay cut if you can do the easier jobs. 

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RE: How can I keep from getting fired? - 12/16/2008 4:56:04 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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I only make $8/hr now. Perhaps I could ask for $7.50. I might try it and hope bringing up the subject doesn't get me fired.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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RE: How can I keep from getting fired? - 12/16/2008 5:20:15 PM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

"He's now a non-traditional college student majoring in accounting. He survives on student loans,"

What do you consider a non traditional student?  I went to college when I was 35 and though I went to a traditional 4 yr college they have programs for older students that takes into account your work and life history. 


You were one, too.  Also called "re-entry" students.  It covers folks who are older than about 26 for BA/BS entry.

As for the work and life history, some schools are really tough on that.  I was a non-degreed test engineer before going back to school full-time for the rest of my BSEE (did the lower division classes at a community college at night part time).  None of my experience counted towards that degree.  I had to show transcripts for all transfered credits.

thornhappy

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RE: How can I keep from getting fired? - 12/16/2008 5:33:09 PM   
windchymes


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The company should have a training program on proper body mechanics for safely lifting heavy patients.  You can greatly reduce your chances of hurting your back by doing proper lifting techniques, like bending from the knees, not from your back, etc.  Also, there are "work hardening" programs available at physical therapy clinics to teach you the same safe lifting techniques, and also to strengthen your back by doing exercises targeted at the muscles that you use in your particular job.  If you tell your doctor about your dilemma, he/she could write you a prescription for therapy for strengthening and work hardening.  Also, the brace is a great idea.  Showing you're being proactive and trying to strengthen yourself to do the job can make you look like you're trying to cooperate and be a better employee.  (In answer to your original question)

I'm going to play devil's advocate for a minute and look at the problem from the employer's point of view.  They have patients that need care.  Therefore, they need employees that can do the job.  The last thing any employer wants is a workers comp case.  If they have an employee that seems to be on the brink of a back injury resulting in a workers comp claim, they're going to be really leery of what they let that employee do and that employee is not going to be a popular person with them. 

Having a bad back myself, I'm very sympathetic to your problem.  But I also know how businesses run.  They're a business, the business of caring for people, and they need employees to do what that job entails. 

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RE: How can I keep from getting fired? - 12/16/2008 6:09:07 PM   
moonvine


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Call the EEOC, it is possible they may provide you with a (free) lawyer.  They also may not, you never can tell what the EEOC will do; however it doesn't hurt to call them.

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RE: How can I keep from getting fired? - 12/16/2008 6:25:46 PM   
bluepanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

you kind of dropped the ball when you let them make changes in your initial status re: the health of your back.


I had to agree that I could work at all the places or be terminated on the spot. I had no choice. With Sir's meager income, I have to bring money into the household. I think they want me to screw up my back and try to file workers comp so they can fire me.


That's the last thing they want, trust me. If you're on worker's comp for an employment-related injury, they can't fire you. They have to carry you until you're rehabilitated to the point where you can work again. And even then, if they fire you after you go back, they have to be able to demonstrate it was not for reasons related to your injury.



quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirlThat's why they are lying about the position being open that won't injure my back. In fact, since I didn't voluntarily quit  (which is what they were hoping for), they may tell all the house managers not to call me when they need someone to fill in. No hours means no pay and basically forces me to quit.


That's probably what they're trying to do, but you have some cards to play in this game. They knew you had a back injury when they hired you, and they took you as you were. You've got a lot more of the upper hand here than I think you realize, and they know it. That's why they're probably going to try to push you into quitting.

I don't know anything about the laws in your state, and i don't know enough about your employment status to give an informed opinion, but offhand I'd say there's a very good chance you're covered under the ADA and possibly eligible for FEMA leave and disability. In addition, in some states you'd be eligible to quit your job and collect unemployment on the grounds that you have a serious medical condition that is made worse by your job, you've given your employer timely notice of your condition and asked for duties that would not endanger your health, and they've refused. In a worst case scenario, that may be an option for you to fall back on. But you really need to find a way to consult with an attorney. If you can't find a free or low-cost legal aid clinic, many urban areas have "ask a lawyer" radio shows that would give you a chance to call in and ask an attorney for some basic guidance. At the very least, they could tell you where to point your google and do some research on your own.

At this point, what I would do if i were you is document as completely and as accurately as you can the entire sequence of events that has led to this point. If you don't have a complete paper trail to support your account, that's fine. Don't worry about it. Just do your best to document the dates (as accurately as possible) on which you had every conversation with your supervisors, and what was said in those conversations. If you're unsure of any dates, make sure you note that it's an approximation ("In the first week of November, on or about Tuesday the 4th, I told Mrs. Whatshername that my back hurt when I lifted such-and-such patient. She replied that the company could not make any special allowances for people with..." Or whatever). I would do that now, immediately, before the details have a chance to fade from your memory. It's very unlikely that your employer has been documenting this situation as thoroughly as I'm suggesting you do, and if it comes down to a legal proceeding and your documentation is more thorough and seems to be in good faith, that will usually give you an advantage. Not always, but often, depending upon the type of proceeding (worker's comp, unemployment, etc.).  Especially make note of any conversations in which you felt you were coerced into making any agreements or compromises under duress. Bottom line is, if it ever gets to court a lot of this will come down to who's more credible, you or your employer. You want to be able to establish that you've made every attempt to take the high road and act in good faith.

That's all I can think of for now, because I just had a friggin' 4-hour root canal this afternoon and I'm starting to get a little burned out. If I can think of anything to add later, I'll try to chirp up. But good luck, to both you and your sir. Times are tough, and it's very sad to hear about decent hard-working people getting pushed around.

< Message edited by bluepanda -- 12/16/2008 6:28:21 PM >


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RE: How can I keep from getting fired? - 12/16/2008 7:01:49 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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Thanks for all the great advice. I didn't know what they're doing is illegal. I thought laws on discriminating against people with disabilities only covered those who receive disability checks from the government. I just don't understand why they say I have to be able to work at all the locations to be employed by them. If they didn't have lighter work I could do, I could understand them saying I can either do the job or not. But they have several locations I could work at and they are deliberately refusing and threatening to terminate me for asking how strenuous certain job sites are. They said they put people in the most sought after positions based on seniority. I don't see how me protecting my back is so unfair to everyone else. If I had seniority and no back problems and someone with back problems applied for the same position as me because of their limitations, I would want them to be chosen because I'd feel like I was able to work anywhere and they couldn't. .

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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RE: How can I keep from getting fired? - 12/16/2008 7:08:03 PM   
KatyLied


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quote:

I just don't understand why they say I have to be able to work at all the locations to be employed by them.


They are allowed to set forth policies/guidelines for their business.  Evidently this is one of them.



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RE: How can I keep from getting fired? - 12/16/2008 7:22:37 PM   
Aszhrae


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Not like you at all 'Rule' the flower within the light, not you at all to take the side of an obvious callous post as 'Musicmystery'

(darkness there in those eyes)

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RE: How can I keep from getting fired? - 12/16/2008 7:48:39 PM   
CalifChick


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I thought laws on discriminating against people with disabilities only covered those who receive disability checks from the government.


Instead of relying on incorrect assumptions, guesses, and info from random strangers, perhaps it would be better to educate yourself on what is legal in your state.

Cali


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RE: How can I keep from getting fired? - 12/16/2008 8:41:22 PM   
Maya2001


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I have not read thru all the posts
but have had off and on medical problems

Most work at most places is assigned by seniority, those employed the longest get the preferred jobs.

with a temporary injury  where complete healing is expected , a written note from a doctor is needed to allow you to bump someone with a better seniority  for light duty work

Where an injury is permanent   the company does not owe you a job  if your seniority is not high enough to do  light duty work.   If their is light duty work available within your seniority range  then you must have a note outlining your permanent restrictions for them to be required to assign you those light duty jobs, without a written note from a doctor(and they can state is most be from a specialist) that you have no entitlement to light duty work..so yes they can fire you if you refuse.

. the other issue is you have, is that you came into hire to them with an existing injury  without written restrictions to on your  ability to do ALL the jobs, flares up to injuries can occur just from sitting around it does not necessarily have to occur for work ...so chances are you vould denied compensation since this injury  is  not caused  from their employ.

I am in the boat now....there is work available in the company that I could possibly due after my surgery and health problems are dealt with....but my health condition is permanent ...I will never be able to return to full duties again.. the work I can do ..is being done by people who where hired 2 years before me.  with close to a 1000 employees in between who are hoping one day to get the easier work..it would be totally unfair to them  to expect them to stay into harder jobs just to accommodate me when my seniority does not entitle me to that job... so that means since there is no jobs available that I can physically do within "my" seniority range..  I am out the door....and to me that is only fair.. if I was in their shoes I would not want to lose a preferred job that my seniority has earned me to someone who had not earned the right to it.  Just because a company hired you on does not entitle you to lighter duty work

and these types of seniority rulings apply to compensation and non work related sickness and accident cases

I have had severe back injury and was able to avoid surgery with  and get by with only minor restrictions, had I went the surgery route I would have been lifetime disability as I would have need to have entire upper spine fused  .. instead I spent 3 years in chiropractic and went thru 3 sessions of physiotherapy to try to return to  near normal function... I did physiotherapy again after  I fell and ruptured the bursa in my right hip.   I highly recommend going thru  physiotherapy,,, what it is designed for is to strenghtened targeted muscles  to support and protect  the affected joint so that you can regain normal or near normal function as well they would likely discuss ergo issues so you can learn different techniques  to avoid further injury... in this day and age with the economy the way it is .... it really is up to the individual to keep themselves in as good of health as possible which means finding ways to overcome injuries ..because no company can afford to keep a lot of dead weight around so they have certain rights and protection as well




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RE: How can I keep from getting fired? - 12/17/2008 3:20:01 AM   
LadyEllen


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Under UK law at least -

If one were previously fit and healthy - as their documentation apparently shows - and one is injured at work; one has a case.

If one had a prior medical condition that required special working arrangements for one to be able to perform the work - and those special arrangements were withheld, resulting in injury; one has a case.

If one had a prior medical condition that can be shown by reference to previous medical records before the employment, then the doctor who examined one prior to employment was at the least negligent in the assessment. That the doctor failed to record any limitations on the work one might be able to do makes the doctor potential party to any injury claim. If the doctor can be shown to have knowingly provided a false report on the assessment, he/she is potentially in more hot water.

Either way it would seem, you have a case if you are injured. There can be no instance where liability for injury or death at work can be avoided by an employer, regardless of documentation they may or may not be able to provide.

Also important is whether they provided any training (that they can prove was delivered satisfactorily) on lifting; if they provided none, they are clearly at fault as of now - pre any injury arising, and more so if any injury should occur. If they provided training and you were passed for all lifting, this does not avoid their liabilities should you be injured as long as you were using the techniques they instructed and taking the above into account.

Moreover, there is a duty of care to provide a safe working environment and safe working practices. This means that no injury need occur in order for a case to succeed should you be dismissed for raising health and safety concerns, providing that this workplace
a) conducts medical assessments which are unsuitable to the nature of the work, whether by design or negligence, or
b) produces and/or relies on medical assessments which are inadequate to the nature of the work, whether by design or negligence, or
c) makes no provision for training or provides unsuitable/inadequate training, or
d) otherwise allows or promotes unsafe working practices and/or provides an unsafe working environment

In your position I would go to the doctor who conducted the medical examination taking copies of my medical records showing the back problem as pre-existing and explaining the above possible consequences of his/her apparent negligence in providing an assessment inadequate to the nature of the work. If you are then dismissed, you have a case against the doctor and the employer.

I would also write a letter to raise the health and safety concerns above, with cc to any person whose interest in the case might provoke action from the employer. If you are then dismissed for raising these concerns, you have a case.

And I would find myself a lawyer specialising in no win no fee injury claims, and discuss the situation with him/her.

E

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RE: How can I keep from getting fired? - 12/17/2008 5:53:04 AM   
angelikaJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

you kind of dropped the ball when you let them make changes in your initial status re: the health of your back.


I had to agree that I could work at all the places or be terminated on the spot. I had no choice. With Sir's meager income, I have to bring money into the household. I think they want me to screw up my back and try to file workers comp so they can fire me. That's why they are lying about the position being open that won't injure my back. In fact, since I didn't voluntarily quit  (which is what they were hoping for), they may tell all the house managers not to call me when they need someone to fill in. No hours means no pay and basically forces me to quit.


Actually, to clarify: I meant in your process of being initially hired... and having your limitations all be documented before ever accepting the position.
Yes, it is true you might not have gotten the job, however you would have then had to get a job that was better suited for your physical limitations.
I am sorry to mention this to you but really, many employers won't want to deal with the hassle of "I can do the job most of the time but not if...". They want someone who can do the job all of the time...and with the way the economy is it is just as easy for them to find someone else who does not have restrictions.
I think it is admirable that you are trying to bring income into the household.
I am sorry it has worked out this way.

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