Noah
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Joined: 7/5/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44
quote:
ORIGINAL: happypervert
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I would think a Master might be displeased with a "sub" who failed to understand when she was being dominated. Call me silly.
Ok, I'll call you silly. If a sub fails to understand when she is being dominated, then it isn't happening. The psychological symbols of domination you mention are nothing more than superficial ornaments, and no more meaningful than dressing in leather and saying "I'm a dom!"
Well pervert, this, IMO, is incorrect. Just because one does not understand that something is going on does not mean that it is not happening, it just means that they don't comprehend it at that time. Will they ever understand what is going on? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe she is so focused on what she wants, she fails to see is that he is dominanting her in a way other then what she expects. And, as the Master, it is upto him to decide how he dominates, not her. If it were upto her then she truely is just topping from the bottom. Did everyone who witnessed the first atom bomb comprehend what was going on? No. Does that mean it didn't happen. Ofcourse not.
This man is worth listening to. I'm gonna go and look at his back posts.
Katylied, usually so clever, misses the obvious in her post above. There is no question who is dominating in this relationship and who is being dominated. Look at the facts presented and offer me your opinion as to whose pleasure is paramount? Whose will is being done?
The dominant and the dominant.
Here are a few questions for the critics:
If it pleases him to make inquiries and flaunt his rejection of the recommendations he receives, well what is anyone appealing to beyond her personal contrary preferences to judge this deficient behavior for a dominant toward his submissive?
Do you think it won't work in the long run? Do you know how long a run he's interested in? At that, are you certain that there is no submissive who would really thrive and flower under his preferred conditions? Are you certain that for all her present chafing his current submissive isn't one such, just on the brink of really learning something about herself thanks to His efforts?
This submissive is obviously in a kind of pain. That's isn't a phenomenon unheard of in D/S relationships. The pain is being administered by her dominant. This is another concept that is not foreign to us. Just another day at the office it seems to me.
Maybe this administration of pain is highly targetted for her personal benefit (by someone who knows her far better than I or you do, her dom) or maybe it just another instance of a sadist getting a kick out of another's pain. Maybe it is a case of a dominant sadist getting a kick out of her demonstrated willingness to endure this pain at his hand. So far I don't see anything non-beautiful.
Do you think sadism is only okay when it doesn't involve someone pleasing himself at the cost of another's pain? I'll bet you aren't alone. And kudos to you and your sympathizers for your creative use of the English language. I know there are LOTS of tops who profess to be sadists but who claim that they take no pleasure in the pain they cause. For them the pain is only instrumental to the betterment of their partner. This is a fine way to be and I support their right to proceed but come on, it takes more than wearing a silly hat to be a cowboy or a fireman, right?
Co-opt names and symbols all you want. It is really okay. But don't kid yourself that you are doing anything else.
Are some critics not addressing this case but talking about "on average" or "most subbies"? What could be less interesting? Statistics are great for insurance companies. They deal in populations. I deal with individuals, don't you? I don't give a rat's ass what most submissives want or need. I don't want most submissives in the first place. I have been far too busy with a very small number of amazingly extrordinary individuals to spend my time on an actuarial analysis of kink.
Raise your hand if you want to be topped by someone who makes his decisions on how to proceed by some notion of majority rule? Shall he look up "average" desires and needs on spreadsheets available at averagesubmissive.com? It would be a wonderful form of objectification play, wouldn't it? He never really tops you but simply uses you as a subject for exercising "what most subs want." How to abjectly ignore someone while simultaneously beating on her ass. I kind of like the idea.
Or does your criticism amount to you saying that you wouldn't stand for it? Great. Super. What the heck does that have to do with anything? Who asked you to? But let's re-word this so that we can call a spade a spade: you wouldn't submit to this. Your limits are your business, but the sub who says "I have few limits except I reserve the right to satisfy my curiosity about your motives any time I feel like it" doesn't need lots of limits, does she? She has a single all-purpose one.
This speaks to the subsequently stated contention that the submissive has a right to know why. I ask, why? Insofar as their roles call for him to dominate and her to submit, where does this "right" arise? What is it based on? Made of?
"I'll do all sorts of things for someone as long as I can know why?" is a perfectly fine little slice of what submission can be. If that's your trip then enjoy it. There is a whole world of D/S you have no access to under this model but then every selection rules some things in and some things out. I respect your choices and I wish you the best.
What if his motivation in this matter has everything to do with her not having access to the reasons why? Is this proposed "right" of the submissive inalienable? Does it trump him in any case? Every case?
If as some here suggest every submisive has a right to know "why" then no dominant has a right to proceed without granting this knowledge, eh? Unless of course the submissive surrenders her right to know why. But that would be tantamount to genuine power exchange, wouldn't it? Is power exchange allowed around here or isn't it?
If all you are saying is that it would go smoother for you this way, that's cool. But then you needn't employ such a grand notion as "having a right." It is a sincere question. Where does this right on the part of the submissive arise?
What's up with A Sub's Right to Know Why?
By the way please switch the pronouns in my posts if the he's and she's are the other way around for you. Everybody's welcome at the table.
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RE: Sub needs advise about getting what she needs from ... - 
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