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Fresh credit strains in Europe as Deutsche Bank shocks ... - 12/18/2008 9:00:31 AM   
celticlord2112


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Status: offline 		Fresh credit strains in Europe as Deutsche Bank shocks markets

Yet more signs that, as bad as some things look in the US, it is palpably worse everywhere else.

Can the EU survive?


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RE: Fresh credit strains in Europe as Deutsche Bank sho... - 12/18/2008 11:50:52 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Yes, because the fundamentals of its economy are strong  .

(Honestly: how can it not survive? What do you think will happen, Armaggedon?)

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RE: Fresh credit strains in Europe as Deutsche Bank sho... - 12/18/2008 1:30:50 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		CL,  might it occur that  the owners of said bank, are the same owners of other troubled banks?  in the US , that YOUR tax money 700bln went to?  they all own a portion of eachother.   

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RE: Fresh credit strains in Europe as Deutsche Bank sho... - 12/18/2008 1:56:27 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Yes, because the fundamentals of its economy are strong  .

(Honestly: how can it not survive? What do you think will happen, Armaggedon?)


Actually, kitten, unbelievably, many do.


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RE: Fresh credit strains in Europe as Deutsche Bank sho... - 12/18/2008 3:55:29 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

Honestly: how can it not survive? What do you think will happen, Armaggedon

Considering the stance Germany has taken with respect to the situation of other EU members, considering the reluctance or perhaps incapacity of the ECB to rescue insolvent banks within the Eurozone, considering the very real scenario that the nations' respective central banks are not large enough to rescue the largest banks, there are some definite fissures appearing in the EU.

Consider Angela Merkel's (German Chancellor) finance minister Peer Steinbrück, and his denunciation of other EU nations' recession responses as "crass Keynesianism."

Consider sentiments appearing in British media of a "bullying Germany."

If EU member nations put self-interest ahead of EU interest, then, yes, the future of the EU is very much in doubt.  Armageddon?  No, not exactly.  But not a pax Europa, either.



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RE: Fresh credit strains in Europe as Deutsche Bank sho... - 12/18/2008 4:15:26 PM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		Deutsche Bank has a lot of bad loans here. We have a lot of properties owned by them because they foreclosed.  

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RE: Fresh credit strains in Europe as Deutsche Bank sho... - 12/18/2008 4:29:44 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Jim Cramer said that Europe needs to "raise it's rates."

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RE: Fresh credit strains in Europe as Deutsche Bank sho... - 12/18/2008 5:50:40 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I used to go out with a girl named Pax Europa.

I think she was Norwegian or something.

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

But not a pax Europa, either.

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RE: Fresh credit strains in Europe as Deutsche Bank sho... - 12/18/2008 5:51:22 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		LOL

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RE: Fresh credit strains in Europe as Deutsche Bank sho... - 12/18/2008 9:06:48 PM   
UncleNasty


Posts: 1108
Joined: 3/20/2004
Status: offline 		Deutsche has many differnt entities under the umbrella, with Deutsche Bank National Trust Company being the largest presence here in the states. DBNT is the largest trustee of the MBS. They lead the country in number of foreclosed properties. They also lead the country in class action suits against them (at least in terms of foreclosing trustees with class actions). 

Uncle Nasty

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RE: Fresh credit strains in Europe as Deutsche Bank sho... - 12/18/2008 9:52:53 PM   
Lorr47


Posts: 862
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Honestly: how can it not survive? What do you think will happen, Armaggedon

Considering the stance Germany has taken with respect to the situation of other EU members, considering the reluctance or perhaps incapacity of the ECB to rescue insolvent banks within the Eurozone, considering the very real scenario that the nations' respective central banks are not large enough to rescue the largest banks, there are some definite fissures appearing in the EU.

Consider Angela Merkel's (German Chancellor) finance minister Peer Steinbrück, and his denunciation of other EU nations' recession responses as "crass Keynesianism."

Consider sentiments appearing in British media of a "bullying Germany."

If EU member nations put self-interest ahead of EU interest, then, yes, the future of the EU is very much in doubt.  Armageddon?  No, not exactly.  But not a pax Europa, either.




Didn't the members of the EU put a lot of pressure on the feds to bail out AIG? Agreed that the  EU is in serious trouble and that the EU could become another bottomless pit for the US.

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RE: Fresh credit strains in Europe as Deutsche Bank sho... - 12/18/2008 9:55:06 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47
Agreed that the  EU is in serious trouble and that the EU could become another bottomless pit for the US.


Eurobastidz: dragging you down with them.

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RE: Fresh credit strains in Europe as Deutsche Bank sho... - 12/18/2008 11:55:33 PM   
Lorr47


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47
Agreed that the  EU is in serious trouble and that the EU could become another bottomless pit for the US.


Eurobastidz: dragging you down with them.


Yep.  WW1, WW2, The Marshall Plan, The Cold War, ....it would seem that the Europeans are now way overdue on their squealing for help routine. . The US should view AIG with some alarm.

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RE: Fresh credit strains in Europe as Deutsche Bank sho... - 12/19/2008 3:56:34 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Hmmmm.

If only they hadnt gotten involved in those varieties of frauds, cons and scams as were concocted in Wall Street over the last decade or so eh?

BUT. All of us on both sides of the Atlantic need to be careful with this sniping. It is because we stand together that we are strong and we control the world. If we go down the route of division, we allow in exactly those parties for whom a disunited west would be a result they could hitherto have only dreamt of.

And contrary to some views, the US is in no position to "save Europe" or any such similar nonsense; the US is bankrupt. As indeed is Europe once the truth starts to come out over the coming few months of 09 of the degree of involvement in the scams, cons and frauds concocted on Wall Street.

The real problem is that we have allowed - on both sides - a bunch of scammers, con artists and fraudsters in designer suits to do what they have done. We have to destroy them and the whole culture of shallow appearance, fast talk and immediate gratification that allowed them to do that - and return to things of real substance.

E

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RE: Fresh credit strains in Europe as Deutsche Bank sho... - 12/19/2008 3:59:14 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

Didn't the members of the EU put a lot of pressure on the feds to bail out AIG?

There was some reporting in the Telegraph that France's finance minister pretty much begged Paulson to bail out AIG, for fears of what an AIG collapse would do to European finance.

It seems that European banks are more heavily leveraged than American banks, and are at greater exposure to the bursting of housing bubbles worldwide.


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RE: Fresh credit strains in Europe as Deutsche Bank sho... - 12/19/2008 4:02:52 AM   
NormalOutside


Posts: 622
Joined: 1/8/2008
Status: offline 		No, I don't think the crashing of our ridiculous game called "the economy" will bring jesus, nor the 4 horses, nor the lakes of fire.  It'll just bring chaos, war, and mass die-offs.  Yay!

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RE: Fresh credit strains in Europe as Deutsche Bank sho... - 12/19/2008 9:41:04 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Yet more signs that, as bad as some things look in the US, it is palpably worse everywhere else.



Naturally.

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