RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be better?

RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be better? (Full Version)

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Mercnbeth -> RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be better? (12/20/2008 10:25:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Right, let's blame Obama for the ungodly mess that Bush has left behind. And let's praise Bush for all the hidden potential in the current situation if the Obama Administration actually does figure out a way to make things better! quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth "Things will get worse" is one promise PE Elect will keep. I'm confident that his administration and Congress will achieve the goal they set. You'll have to point out the "praise for Bush" or even a reference to "hidden potential". Sorry you see "blame" in representation of fact. The appointments to the Cabinet and other key posts made by PE Obama are, to me, a good prediction of the outcome. If there is anything I have in common with President Bush is that when I see a shoe coming at me, I too know how to duck and cover. I don't have to wait until it hits to react. I'm enjoy the rebuttal, lacking in supporting evidence though it may be. It seems that the possibility of progress is so remote that even the 'believers' see it as an impossibility? It would indicate more agreement with my position than disagreement. Please withhold the 'insightful' and debate progressing head bobbing applause.

snappykappy -> RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be better? (12/20/2008 10:28:41 AM)
so we are behind the 8 bubble not the 8 ball

Lorr47 -> RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be better? (12/20/2008 1:00:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UncleNasty As best I can tell there are only 2 ilks of folks that have faith (faith = belief in something for which there is no evidence) the economy will be better next spring. 1) Those with their heads burind in the sand. 2) Those in a position to take advantnage of the losses of the masses. Uncle Nasty That really sums it up. And, while I had my head in the sand someone.................me, repeatedly..

Lorr47 -> RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be better? (12/20/2008 1:14:35 PM)
quote: Without government covering their bets all along, Wall Street would have crashed ages ago. CL we discussed the auto maker bailout vs wall street several weeks ago. I felt that you could tell whether the auto makers would be bailed out just by the enormous indebtedness they had to wall street. I listened to three economists since the bailout opine that the reason the bailout even occurred was that wall street told Bush the bankers could not sustain the blow. So, instead of surmising that Bush was being compassionate for human suffering, or keeping the auto makers around for national security, etc. etc. I still think Bush did it for the same reason he has done everything: to make sure his pets on wall street feel no pain and can get away with their gains..

Lordandmaster -> RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be better? (12/20/2008 2:28:55 PM)
Here, I've made it easy for you. Match the colors. Laughing..."I'm confident that X" means "X is fact"? Hilarious. quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Right, let's blame Obama for the ungodly mess that Bush has left behind. And let's praise Bush for all the hidden potential in the current situation if the Obama Administration actually does figure out a way to make things better! quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth "Things will get worse" is one promise PE Elect will keep. I'm confident that his administration and Congress will achieve the goal they set. You'll have to point out the "praise for Bush" or even a reference to "hidden potential". Sorry you see "blame" in representation of fact.

samboct -> RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be better? (12/20/2008 3:13:39 PM)
Merc- if anybody's fact challenged here- it's you- "It will only get better when pragmatic action replaces academic social idealistic engineering." Well, I agree with that statement. So does the LA Times in this story http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-obama-cabinet20-2008dec20,0,4901420.story It's clear Obama has taken your advice- he's made a bunch of pragmatic choices for his cabinet. He's made sure that he hasn't alienated large blocks of the country- he hasn't picked a cabinet that Republicans are squirming over, and it's not one that liberals are ecstatic over. A few of his picks are apolitical based on what appears to be competence- notably Steven Chu as energy secretary and Shaun Donovan at HUD. Feel free to use the search function for my comments on Steven Chu posted earlier on this board. Tell me- what was GWB using for his cabinet choices, because it often seemed that competence was way down on the list. (Personal experience listening to Spencer Abraham.) This country is suffering from an epidemic of incompetence which has also lead to a crisis of confidence. (I don't see that overtaxation has played much of a role in getting us to where we are today.) At this point- I'll give Obama the benefit of the doubt- I think he's doing a pretty good job of his cabinet picks- and in two key positions he's picked people who's sole qualification appears to be their competence in their field. Other areas of the cabinet call for legislators and these people benefit from knowing how to get legislation passed. Let's face it, the health care debacle isn't going to be solved by more research or a non-existant technology solution. But both energy and housing could use some new technological approaches as well- and that's where there's new blood showing up. OK, transportation could as well- nobody's perfect. Sam

Mercnbeth -> RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be better? (12/20/2008 5:38:39 PM)
quote: quote: ORIGINAL: samboct Merc- if anybody's fact challenged here- it's you- "It will only get better when pragmatic action replaces academic social idealistic engineering." Well, I agree with that statement. Sam, agreeing with someone you're trying to say is "fact challenged" isn't a path to proving your point.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be better? (12/20/2008 5:40:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Here, I've made it easy for you. Match the colors. Laughing..."I'm confident that X" means "X is fact"? Hilarious. quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Right, let's blame Obama for the ungodly mess that Bush has left behind. And let's praise Bush for all the hidden potential in the current situation if the Obama Administration actually does figure out a way to make things better! quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth "Things will get worse" is one promise PE Elect will keep. I'm confident that his administration and Congress will achieve the goal they set. You'll have to point out the "praise for Bush" or even a reference to "hidden potential". Sorry you see "blame" in representation of fact. Obama: "It will get worse. Me: I'm confident he will be proven correct. You: Confused?

samboct -> RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be better? (12/20/2008 6:12:19 PM)
"Sam, agreeing with someone you're trying to say is "fact challenged" isn't a path to proving your point." Neither is refuting a point taken out of context. Sam

Truthiness -> RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be better? (12/20/2008 9:24:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia We had a choice the last election more of the same or something different. The people voted him as the next President, and we will see what happens. Happy Holidays! The con is that people actually believe that he will be "something different." A little naive I feel.

corysub -> RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be better? (12/20/2008 9:25:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia I am not really in a position to speak for the PE. But, I have always thought that PE Obama has publically stated that the reason it will get worse before it gets better, is because he is being truthful! Surely you realize how bad our current economic situation is Merc. To lie and say it will get better soon, would serve what purpose? I am not going to lower myself to address personal insults at this time. I will say I have not been "conned" and I have never said that I agree with all of his policies! We had a choice the last election more of the same or something different. The people voted him as the next President, and we will see what happens. Happy Holidays! I think Obama is stating the obvious. Most economists agree that we could easily see things get worse in the first half of 2009. It's going to take time for the massive Fed and Treasury stimulus programs to work their way into the system and somewhere between six to nine months is a number I am hearing from economists. We are already seeing the increased liquidity in the banking system reflected in LIBOR down almost 300 basis points from it's high above 4 1/2%, and consumers are rushing to banks to re-finance mortgages with rates under 5%! And don't forget, the collapse of oil from over $145 a barrel has put hundreds of billions of dollars back into the hands of the consumer, amounting to another importaant stimulus. Obama is coming into power with the tide about ready to stop going out..the risk being the he and insane Pelosi do something stupid to destroy confidence in the recovery as they try to save the planet instead of the economy.

MzMia -> RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be better? (12/20/2008 9:37:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Truthiness quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia We had a choice the last election more of the same or something different. The people voted him as the next President, and we will see what happens. Happy Holidays! The con is that people actually believe that he will be "something different." A little naive I feel. He will BE different than Bush or McSame. The people have spoken, and it will be what it's going to be.

Truthiness -> RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be better? (12/20/2008 10:08:01 PM)
Exactly how will he be "Different" again? Just because he says so? Wow, never heard someone running for president say that before..

bluepanda -> RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be better? (12/20/2008 10:20:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Truthiness quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia We had a choice the last election more of the same or something different. The people voted him as the next President, and we will see what happens. Happy Holidays! The con is that people actually believe that he will be "something different." A little naive I feel. Well, he's a politician. There are going to be a lot of things he does in pretty much the same way every other politician does them, because that's the way the business is conducted. He'll make compromises, he'll change his mind and take a different position from time to time, he'll break promises the same way every other politician does. It would be naive of anyone to expect otherwise, and anyone who does expect otherwise is in for a nasty, disillusioning surprise. If anybody who dislikes him wants to prove he's no different than any other politician by seizing upon occasional examples of him doing things the same way other politicians do them, they won't have any trouble finding such examples. But the measure of the man will be whether he succeeds in practicing a style of politics that, by and large, represents a fundamental change from the way we've become accustomed to seeing it practiced. I think he'll succeed in pulling that off, but if people just focus on the ways in which he isn't any different, they'll see what they want to see. Even though it may not be what they're really seeing.

variation30 -> RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be better? (12/21/2008 2:32:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: winterlight I got this comment from somebody who posted and i am wondering if others feel the same way.. lol. no. well...let me put it this way...in spring 09 - my gold will be at 1000 an ounce...so I'll be doing well. but 'the economy' will not be doing well.

blacksword404 -> RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be better? (12/21/2008 7:01:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: variation30 quote: ORIGINAL: winterlight I got this comment from somebody who posted and i am wondering if others feel the same way.. lol. no. well...let me put it this way...in spring 09 - my gold will be at 1000 an ounce...so I'll be doing well. but 'the economy' will not be doing well. What was that address again? [:D]

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