Giving up contol (Full Version)

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WalterRego -> Giving up contol (12/20/2008 7:30:02 AM)

There is the voluntary giving up of control: obeying, holding a position, keeping silent doing something we may not like. And there is the involuntary giving up of control: bondage; being taken past limits.

Is one more satisfying than the other? Is one better  or more desireable (better for or to a submissive themself, not to the Master or Mistress?)  Do they ultimately take us to the same place?



daddysliloneds -> RE: Giving up contol (12/20/2008 7:45:14 AM)

i hardly see where anything using opposites such as voluntary and involuntary will ultimately lead us to the same place, but that's just me.



peppermint -> RE: Giving up contol (12/20/2008 8:55:59 AM)

I'm not sure what you mean by activities taking you to some place?  What place are you talking about....a mental state of some sort or an emotional state or a state of submissive or? 

All the activities you listed are all part of WIITWD.  I didn't know that each one had to be geared toward something inside the submissive.  We do a lot of that just because they are enjoyable and fun. 



utopicus -> RE: Giving up contol (12/20/2008 10:09:50 AM)

Voluntarily giving up control is a measure of our submission and it gets refined with time and experience; control being taken away from us ultimately strengthens our submission - so the two of them have a synergetic effect. Whether they take us to the same place - what would that place might be?



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Giving up contol (12/20/2008 10:53:28 AM)

If it's all consensual, there's not much difference in the end.  Some people prefer the "involuntary" because it feels more forceful and they don't have to feel as responsible for it.  Some prefer the "voluntary" for exactly those same reasons.

Ultimately you're talking more about kink and active expressions of a dynamic, not the dynamic itself.



DesFIP -> RE: Giving up contol (12/20/2008 7:44:50 PM)

I volunteer for bondage, always. In fact I need to go straighten out the rope bag.

For us, bondage is better. We both just get off on it. I actually hate mental bondage. If I'm worrying about not changing position, I'm not aroused. If I'm not aroused then I don't view any pain as erotic and it's all more than I can handle. Plus me worrying is not me giving him energy which he then feeds off of.



greeneyedreamer -> RE: Giving up contol (12/20/2008 9:49:00 PM)

quote:

I actually hate mental bondage.


Funny how the dislikes of one are the love of another! I LOVE mental bondage. I actually just put me in that state by myself. My Dom loves it and smiles. He doesn't ever have to tell me anymore what he wants. I don't worry so much about 'moving' out of position, I just keep the approximate position.

Dreamer



AquaticSub -> RE: Giving up contol (12/20/2008 10:22:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WalterRego

There is the voluntary giving up of control: obeying, holding a position, keeping silent doing something we may not like. And there is the involuntary giving up of control: bondage; being taken past limits.

Is one more satisfying than the other? Is one better  or more desireable (better for or to a submissive themself, not to the Master or Mistress?)  Do they ultimately take us to the same place?



All I do is voluntary. If he takes me past my limits it's because I've given him the control to ignore previously stated limits. I have no desire for someone who would truly do to me what I have stated as a limit as mine are few, far between, and there for very good reasons.

Val's point of view is that he doesn't want me to do things that are actually against my will. He values my voluntary submission and has no use for non-voluntary and therefore unwilling submission.



NuevaVida -> RE: Giving up contol (12/20/2008 11:07:43 PM)

Whatever he and I do together is wonderfully satisfying, and neither restrained nor unrestrained gets a "better" vote from me.  As for being taken past limits, in all honesty my former owner pushed me through so many mental and emotional boundaries that the idea of intentionally (rather than naturally, as life occurs) pushing through more is no longer appealing to me at this time.  I don't want to be someone's conquest upon which he can plant his flag and proudly proclaim "Look what I brought her to do."  I did that, and while I enjoyed it and benefited from it, it exhausted me, too.  It's nice to just "be" and enjoy where and what I am with somebody.



WalterRego -> RE: Giving up contol (12/21/2008 12:55:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Ultimately you're talking more about kink and active expressions of a dynamic, not the dynamic itself.


But a "dynamic" by definition. deals with the movement of energy, and the application of force or the channeling (or harnessing) of energy and force or power in certain directions. How can you have a "dynamic" without active expressions that it works through?

It would seem from the first part of your response, and the split of some liking one side and others liking the other, that they do both get us to the same place. And perhaps not just for subs, but for Dominants too.



porcelain26 -> RE: Giving up contol (12/21/2008 1:08:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WalterRego

There is the voluntary giving up of control: obeying, holding a position, keeping silent doing something we may not like. And there is the involuntary giving up of control: bondage; being taken past limits.

Is one more satisfying than the other? Is one better  or more desireable (better for or to a submissive themself, not to the Master or Mistress?)  Do they ultimately take us to the same place?



For me, they're both satisfying, though depending on my mood, sometimes I'd rather be 'forced'. I thoroughly enjoy being obedient and pleasing the dominant I'm serving; it makes me tingle in all the right places. But there is definately another kind of 'bliss' to be found when that same dominant, so happy with my obedience, pushes the envelope and takes up the slack in my proverbial leash (or literal leash, whichever).

I often find that being pushed puts me into a much different head space than simply being obedient. I'm much more submissive, much more compliant, and much more uninhibited. So for me, no, these paths don't lead to the same destination. Though I don't believe I could let someone take that kind of control without first submitting my own to them in the way you described at first. So I guess in a lot of ways, I need to be obedient first, and pushed second? Not sure if I'm making any sense, here...I'm more than a little sleep deprived.



eyesopened -> RE: Giving up contol (12/21/2008 4:04:55 AM)

I will agree with Aquaticsub.  To be in a dynamic where bondage is a shared kink and then how would it be involuntary transfer of control when I look forward to hard bondage?  But whether He chooses to use all the ropes, cuffs, hood, respirator, shackles, bars and chains or simply the "hands behind back!" command, the control is always His.  I begged for this collar so I volunteered to give up control.



swan70 -> RE: Giving up contol (12/21/2008 5:05:41 AM)

One is not "better" than the other--but there are times that i prefer bondage. 

One--i just like it.  i like the feel of the rope or the cuffs or the chain against my skin.  It puts me into sub space a little faster.  Two--i like bondage when i might get hurt without it.  If  Master is using the switch on me...i'd rather be bound to be SURE i keep my hands out of the way. 

Now--i view the "voluntary" things listed as just obedience and servitude.  They don't put me in sub space--but i enjoy them because they are a way of showing respect to my Master.



Vanessacherry -> RE: Giving up contol (12/21/2008 5:07:59 AM)

The first are very sexual for me.  The others feel less so.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Giving up contol (12/21/2008 10:24:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WalterRego
But a "dynamic" by definition. deals with the movement of energy, and the application of force or the channeling (or harnessing) of energy and force or power in certain directions. How can you have a "dynamic" without active expressions that it works through?

Energy does not equate to physical expressions.  There are many forms in which a dynamic exists other than the physical, at least for me.
quote:


It would seem from the first part of your response, and the split of some liking one side and others liking the other, that they do both get us to the same place. And perhaps not just for subs, but for Dominants too.

We are complicated fucked up beings for sure :)



littlewonder -> RE: Giving up contol (12/21/2008 5:09:20 PM)

I give up my control in both ways to Master. Neither is better or worse. They are both just part and parcel of who we are.

He leads, I follow and we get there through many different avenues.




bound4more -> RE: Giving up contol (12/21/2008 5:20:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WalterRego

There is the voluntary giving up of control: obeying, holding a position, keeping silent doing something we may not like. And there is the involuntary giving up of control: bondage; being taken past limits.

Is one more satisfying than the other? Is one better  or more desireable (better for or to a submissive themself, not to the Master or Mistress?)  Do they ultimately take us to the same place?



In my relationship there is no involuntary anything. Regardless of whether I find myself physically in a position of no control or not, the fact is I agreed to obey, I agreed to submit to His wishes. That is the place I live in, with or without a seeming loss or sense of control. It's called consentual non-consent - which only means He doesn't have to keep asking - is this okay?



lilpet143 -> RE: Giving up contol (12/23/2008 11:32:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelain26

quote:

ORIGINAL: WalterRego

There is the voluntary giving up of control: obeying, holding a position, keeping silent doing something we may not like. And there is the involuntary giving up of control: bondage; being taken past limits.

Is one more satisfying than the other? Is one better  or more desireable (better for or to a submissive themself, not to the Master or Mistress?)  Do they ultimately take us to the same place?



For me, they're both satisfying, though depending on my mood, sometimes I'd rather be 'forced'. I thoroughly enjoy being obedient and pleasing the dominant I'm serving; it makes me tingle in all the right places. But there is definately another kind of 'bliss' to be found when that same dominant, so happy with my obedience, pushes the envelope and takes up the slack in my proverbial leash (or literal leash, whichever).

I often find that being pushed puts me into a much different head space than simply being obedient. I'm much more submissive, much more compliant, and much more uninhibited. So for me, no, these paths don't lead to the same destination. Though I don't believe I could let someone take that kind of control without first submitting my own to them in the way you described at first. So I guess in a lot of ways, I need to be obedient first, and pushed second? Not sure if I'm making any sense, here...I'm more than a little sleep deprived.



I agree w porcelain.

pet



T1981 -> RE: Giving up contol (12/24/2008 7:54:49 AM)

I also have to agree with porcelin, that it depends on the mood that I'm in as to which is more satisfying. There is also that sort of "immediate" sense of satisifaction one gets while obeying versus the "delayed" feeling of satisfiaction one can get after a session of being pushed to obey. They are both wonderful, but the most long lasting one for me, since my husband and I aren't in a 24/7, is being pushed - BUT in order to get there we have to work on me getting into that obedient headspace first.



WalterRego -> RE: Giving up contol (12/24/2008 8:17:23 AM)

I think maybe you've hit on it, porcelain. Being obedient and pleasing is a very  happy, satisfying and warm feeling. Whereas being forced is a hot electrfying one.




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