Could this anti-poverty program work here? (Full Version)

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thornhappy -> Could this anti-poverty program work here? (12/20/2008 3:44:48 PM)

Here's an interesting approach to breaking the poverty cycle in rural Mexico; could it work here?  Full article link here.

"[Oscar] Lewis’s description of the culture of poverty probably still fit Paso de Coyutla 10 years ago. It doesn’t anymore. The town has transformed itself in the past decade, a result of a deceptively simple government program that is now rewriting poverty-fighting strategies throughout Latin America and around the world. The program is called Oportunidades, and in 1997, Paso de Coyutla became one of the first places in Mexico to enroll. The program gives the poor cash, but unlike traditional welfare programs, it conditions the receipt of that cash on activities designed to break the culture of poverty and keep the poor from transmitting that culture to their children.

Until recently, for example, children like Maleny did not go to high school. Though Maleny’s school is public, families often prefer not to pay the fees they’re assessed or to pay for school supplies, food and transportation. More important, if she were not in school, she, too, could be working in the fields. Such work is especially common among girls, as their education has been widely derided as a waste of money in rural Mexico — why educate someone who is just going to get married?
Now Maleny goes to school because her mother is enrolled in Oportunidades. Solís gets $61 a month from the Mexican government on the condition that Maleny goes and maintains good attendance. (If she worked in the fields and earned a typical salary, she would be paid $7.40 for an eight-hour day.) Such grants start for students in third grade, increase for each year of school and are higher for girls, which gives families added incentive to send them.

Solís also receives money for the family’s food — again, subject to certain requirements. She gets a $27-a-month basic food grant if she takes her family to regular preventive health checkups at Paso de Coyutla’s clinic, which provides vaccinations, pap smears and the like. She must also attend a monthly workshop on a health topic, like purifying drinking water. In total, the grants the family receives for food and the oldest three children’s educations come to almost as much as Hernández earns farming."




awmslave -> RE: Could this anti-poverty program work here? (12/20/2008 7:12:56 PM)

US government spends substantial money to fight poverty.  Take for example prison-industrial complex.




Lorr47 -> RE: Could this anti-poverty program work here? (12/20/2008 8:16:59 PM)

I would like to see us try it but administering the program would be extremely difficult. Anytime that a good idea is suggested in Michigan, the administration thereof is given to the Department of Human Resources.  It ends up FUBAR.




corysub -> RE: Could this anti-poverty program work here? (12/20/2008 8:45:27 PM)

The United States has had much more extensive programs for decades to help people rise above the poverty level with the "War on Poverty" programs, "Affirmative Action", government paid tuition for trade schools, and on and on.  For millions of people these programs provided the helping hand that allowed them to create better lives for themselves and their families. Many millions of others continue in their poor economic condition because they failed to capitalize on these opportunities. Lets face it guys, some people are just idiots..some people are stupid, some people could care less about study and hard work, and you just can't legislate success for people in a free society.  Tens of millions of Americans have been trained to live off the government cheese.  Why is it that jobs could be found for millions of "illegals" in the country, while others just sit on their stoop and complain about no job opportunites?  Maybe if they just got off their ass and looked for a job they would find work although the high minimum wage for unskilled, entry level jobs has diminished the opportunity for these people I must also admit.  So much for political help for the poor...closing doors for unskilled workers to get a toe on the ladder of success.




popeye1250 -> RE: Could this anti-poverty program work here? (12/20/2008 11:23:37 PM)

It probably wouldn't work here.
Too many people are poor in this country from doing drugs, that come over the border from Mexico.




slaveboyforyou -> RE: Could this anti-poverty program work here? (12/20/2008 11:28:25 PM)

Yep, them Mexicans really know how to take care of their own people.  Hell, they give them free land around Mexico city to build plywood and corrugated tin shacks on.  We can learn a lot from those saints.  [8|]




variation30 -> RE: Could this anti-poverty program work here? (12/21/2008 2:31:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

The program gives the poor cash


nope.

edit: allow me to be more specific...

where is this money coming from? what is it taking away from?




Lorr47 -> RE: Could this anti-poverty program work here? (12/21/2008 2:40:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

Yep, them Mexicans really know how to take care of their own people.  Hell, they give them free land around Mexico city to build plywood and corrugated tin shacks on.  We can learn a lot from those saints.  [8|]


The US is doing a better job of caring for them.  My step son was a foreman at a furniture plant.  The shift came in on a Thursday an all were told that they were fired.  The next day the plant had a new shift of Mexican folks working for virtually nothing and with no benefits. A friend who was recently hired at a powder spray plant is the only Caucasian in the plant.  They have a number of interpreters giving instructions on how to do the job etc.  Since my friend is 61 he certainly is not saying anything to rock the boat and has purchased a Spanish dictionary. 

Both my step son and friend's new jobs reveal one underlying theme.  All these factory closings are offset by the parent company outsourcing the work to smaller shops.  The economic downturn is being used to break the unions.  I have never been a great fan of unions but this is leading to a lower standard of living for US citizens and more profit for owners. Neither the Mexicans, my step son or my friend are making a living wage. I get off work at 5:00 am and take them to work around 6:30 am since I have the block car. I use to laugh about "block cars" etc; not funny anymore.




thornhappy -> RE: Could this anti-poverty program work here? (12/21/2008 6:43:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub
Many millions of others continue in their poor economic condition because they failed to capitalize on these opportunities. Lets face it guys, some people are just idiots..some people are stupid, some people could care less about study and hard work, and you just can't legislate success for people in a free society.

Maybe if they just got off their ass and looked for a job they would find work although the high minimum wage for unskilled, entry level jobs has diminished the opportunity for these people I must also admit.  So much for political help for the poor...closing doors for unskilled workers to get a toe on the ladder of success.

And those used to be union jobs, what a scandal.  Those provided a large part of the growth of the middle class.

The first paragraph is the same situation addressed in the article, and there was change in the communities.  They had the same problems, the same "institutional" poverty, and alcohol abuse.  Yet this program worked for a lot of people.

Something that came up in trying to turn around single-parent families in the last 15 years is that some conditions are required to get and hold a job: availability of reliable transportation (if public transportation is available, it still could take 2-3 hours to get to work), good child care, and training the parents to look over their kids' homework, etc. 

I found it kind of ironic that conservatives urge middle to upper class women to stay home and take care of the children, while poor women were welfare-grubbing slackers if they didn't hand the children over to poor quality child care.

thornhappy




LadyEllen -> RE: Could this anti-poverty program work here? (12/21/2008 7:44:49 AM)

There was an interesting piece on micro-financing in Bolivia on Channel 4's The Ascent Of Money (UK).

The programme of micro-financing was to issue small loans to poor women to start small businesses. The programme is highly successful in not only reducing poverty but also in terms of the loans being paid up on time.

The model totally undoes traditional financing in that it holds that women are far more reliable than men in terms of creditworthiness and responsibility - the traditional view being that women are frivolous idiots of course - and it holds that loans can be given without any security whatsoever to women because of their different attitude compared to men - the traditional model being that security is always required (so preventing the poor from any means of access to business).

No handouts, just handups.

I'd like to see similar programmes here and in the US; social welfare benefits belong to those who through sickness or disability or injury cannot provide for themselves - the remainder should get handups according to this sort of model.

E




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