RE: Should everyone switch? (Full Version)

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lusciouslips19 -> RE: Should everyone switch? (1/29/2009 10:38:33 AM)

To me Dominating would just be stressful. It would be anxiety producing.



T1981 -> RE: Should everyone switch? (1/29/2009 1:50:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

To me Dominating would just be stressful. It would be anxiety producing.


In general that's me, too, outside of the few submissive women that I have topped.

Maybe that's it - I enjoy topping certain woman (I don't think I have it in me to top a guy, even a submissive one), but actual domination? That's way too much work, too much of a change from the mindset I'm usually in. Anxiety producing, that's a good way of putting it.

I'm a bit of a sadist - I enjoy inflicting pain - but the rest of dominance just goes way over my head.



aravain -> RE: Should everyone switch? (1/29/2009 3:29:22 PM)

My initial reaction was: "Um... why?"

Thinking about it more, though, I understand where you're coming from. In just a pure logistical sense, it provides first-hand knowledge (to both parties) of how what they're doing appears/feels from the other side.

I've met many (vanilla) gay men (versatiles, bottoms AND tops) who generally won't have sex with someone unless they've been on both sides of the 'playing field,' or are willing to be. Granted, I've also met many who are on the exact *opposite* side. It DOES make sense (and I was of the first camp until I tried the 'other side' only to figure out... oh, I was right. I really don't like this :P)

*shrug*

Time to read the thread >:D



JRiddle -> RE: Should everyone switch? (1/29/2009 6:05:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikitaa


quote:

ORIGINAL: JRiddle

Should everyone be willing to switch at least a little? Would experience on the receiving end make for better performance on the giving side of things? Does the bottom need to experience Topping to be best fill their role? Does one role require more experience with the inverse than the other role? Does this vary with play style and elements of play?

A quote comes to mind while pondering this: "To be a good leader, one must be a good follower." - Quote unknown.



Just because person makes quote "to be good leader......follower" does not make this so. Many times I see people say famous quotes and act as if quote is word from God.
I could not be submissive. If I tried I would not make better dominatrix. I would only annoy person trying to act as my dom.

I am very good with throwing and catching Frizbee. I can do many tricks. I do not need to become frizbee to understand how to throw and catch frizbee. Maybe not good analogy but only good analogies I know are in Polish and do not make proper translation.

In a later post, I explained my thoughts on the matter further. Usually, I do not think in terms of solid rules when people are involved. The provided quote usually proves true in my experience with notable exceptions. To lead, one must have a solid understanding of what makes people want to follow. Often times, this is gained from experience following.

Your Frisbee analogy is an excellent one. It is impossible to be the Frisbee and you had to get your understanding of their function through a different method. Through sheer quantity of experience throwing and catching one, you have gained the insight required to perform your desired task. I do not doubt that people can become very good without experiencing the other side.

My questions all boil down to one question: "Does a first person perspective of the other side improve the learning curve of the chosen side." It appears that part of the confusion stems from me not specifying which portion of BDSM I was pondering. Many of the replies focused on Domination/submission while I thought in broad bondage/discipline, Domination/submission, and sadist/masochist terms. Maybe, my definition of "Switch" does not match the majority here. I thought "Switch" meant "one who enjoys both sides" and was not limited to a D/s relationship.



ShinneBimboCandi -> RE: Should everyone switch? (1/29/2009 6:24:02 PM)

I think most nailed it on the head let those be in comfortable in their zone of dominance or giving up control. Switching won't necessarily make any more capable as a dominant or submissive especially if it's something you do not enjoy. I'm of the simple philosophy both parties should enjoy satisfaction on their own terms.



JRiddle -> RE: Should everyone switch? (1/29/2009 7:52:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: aravain

My initial reaction was: "Um... why?"

Thinking about it more, though, I understand where you're coming from. In just a pure logistical sense, it provides first-hand knowledge (to both parties) of how what they're doing appears/feels from the other side.

*shrug*

Time to read the thread >:D


Exactly my line of thinking! Is first hand knowledge of the other side helpful for everyone?

The complexities involved in completely switching roles leads me to think this is an unrealistic expectation for most people and will likely result in insufficient usefulness to justify the hassle. Many replies discussing the D/s portion of BDSM have made it clear that some cannot switch between these roles. Those that list reasons why they cannot perform the other role seem to already posses the useful first-hand knowledge. Life tends to provide enough opportunities to dominate someone or submit to others without requiring us to set up a BDSM scene to attain sufficient experience with the opposite role. Obeying your boss or informing customer service of your expectations are real life D/s relations. In impact play, it is more critical to actually feel the impact before subjecting another to it. Several Doms have told me how to test an impact item on myself before using it on someone else. By smacking my own hand or forearm, I can compare the relative impact, sound, and sensation provided without being the bottom in an impact scene. If I swing a bull whip, I can quickly understand why a Dom could decide to not use a brand new bull whip on me as soon as they receive it. I have a few minutes of first-hand experience using one and have seen a glimpse of the skill required to use one safely on someone else. There is no point for me to master the bull whip to appreciate the Dom that has.

After reading the replies and chatting with others, it has become readily apparent to me that those that have mastered their chosen role have already attained the necessary knowledge through the most appropriate means possible. For those that don't switch, the method may include either partially switching (flogging their own hand), other life experiences (that annoying boss), or some other method to attain the desired information. Full role switching is reserved for Switches.



aravain -> RE: Should everyone switch? (1/29/2009 8:55:36 PM)

I suppose.

It also changes on where you're talking about 'switch' wise. It really does impact it a lot.

I think that, for pain type things, it's imperative *for me* to have a partner who is either A)very well-experienced or B)willing (and experienced) to be on the other side as well. I can't help the importance of these before being on the receiving end (whether they're illusions or not).

For other roles... not so much. (for clarity's sake I'll say this: I'm a submissive, a masochist AND a sadist, which is why I label myself as 'switch.' I'm more than willing (and even eager) to be on both ends in pain-play, but not so much in D/S roles)



Andalusite -> RE: Should everyone switch? (2/1/2009 12:37:47 PM)

If someone isn't interested in switching, then I can't see any point in them forcing themselves to try it. I don't see anything wrong with not wanting to switch, and it wouldn't appeal to me to try to push them into it. There are a few (primarily male) Doms who say that they "can't handle" being tied up or bottoming to even extremely mild things. I tend to think of them as kind of wimpy.



genderfreeq -> RE: Should everyone switch? (2/10/2009 11:07:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress

Taking your turn serving food in a restaurant doesn't make you a better chef, nor does taking a turn peeling potatoes make you a better waiter or waitress.



Your analogy doesnt hold true, you are comparing a dime and a quarter instead of 2 sides of the same coin.  It would be more like eating the food would likely make you a better chef, as reducing a sauce or preparing a soufle might give you more appreciation when you eat a meal. 

Not much into shoulds myself.  Life is too big for shoulds.  An yet there is no shorting the wisdom of experience.




genderfreeq -> RE: Should everyone switch? (2/10/2009 11:35:18 PM)

So you can't listen to a frisbee.  Still no one has brought up the essential skill of listening.  This is certainly a skill that I am most interested in a Domme or Top having if I am going to be on the other end of anything in their hands.  Certainly experience is enlightening.  Yet I can take far too much pain for my own good, so my experience as a bottom will not go far when it comes to someone with a lighter pain tolerance.  I would say far more important than switching is the skill of truely listening to the partner.

My resentfulness says that there are some Dom/Dommes that ought to see the other side.  But that is usually because they are not in touch humanity, and truely see themselves as better and above thir submissive or slave.  As though BDSM gives them the right to create some kind of caste system.  They are usually not wise enough to listen.



marysdream -> RE: Should everyone switch? (3/11/2009 7:48:05 AM)

no if i wanted that would just have remained strictly vanilla!
lol ree



asianchloe -> RE: Should everyone switch? (3/29/2009 6:21:39 PM)

No, but having been a waitress might make you empthasize (when your order is wrong or the food isn't right) when you are the diner.


quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress

Taking your turn serving food in a restaurant doesn't make you a better chef, nor does taking a turn peeling potatoes make you a better waiter or waitress.




asianchloe -> RE: Should everyone switch? (3/29/2009 6:23:28 PM)

I tend to agree. I had a newbie Domme contact me asking to be my sub since "it was the best way [she] could think of to be a good Domme".

quote:

ORIGINAL: utopicus

Well, you gave the answer yourself.
I believe that Dominants should switch, under more experienced Dominants', in order to learn, understand and appreciate each experience. I don't believe that subs should do that, honestly.




VampiresLair -> RE: Should everyone switch? (3/29/2009 6:27:23 PM)

I am a dominant person. I would not make a good submissive. I do not enjoy or get anything from pain, and discipline would not make me behave better, it would make me rebel. So, explain to me please what exactly I would learn from such an experiment? If I do not like pain, then I learn nothing about someone who enjoys it, or even needs it. If I do not enjoy discipline and control, then I learn nothing about someone who craves it. So, essentially, aside from learning that I am a terrible submissive, which I knew anyway, I am not going to learn jack and crap about being dominant by submitting! I dont learn to throw a whip better by feeling it when it his me. I dont learn to use a crop better by being struck by one. I cant learn how to tie a better knot just by being tied up myself. If you are not a submissive type, forcing yourself to endure it just to make others believe you will be a better dominant is stupid.

If you enjoy both sides, then you may gain by switching. In my case, and most others, they probably wont.

My opinion, others need not agree.

DV



Cage03 -> RE: Should everyone switch? (3/29/2009 7:21:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

To me Dominating would just be stressful. It would be anxiety producing.


luscious,
I am not saying that you need to make a regular practice of  topping, but, perhaps the temporary stress and anxiety would give you a very good insight into what goes on in the mind of the person behind the whip.

I am a firm believer in gathering a very broad spectrum of experiences, and know that even the bad experiences can teach you an awful lot. So much so in fact, that many of the not so good experiences don't seem that bad after all.

Often, I find myself drawing upon a general feeling gained from my pool of experience, rather than any one incident.

In short, OP, I am a firm believer in gaining regular, albeit infrequent, bottoming experiences.

Flogging myself with my new flogger (I make my own - and very good ones too) is not the same as requiring a slave to do it for me.

Cage



asianchloe -> RE: Should everyone switch? (3/29/2009 7:48:36 PM)

At first I thought that yourhandmyass's response was a little harsh but upon reading boytoyinaltlanta's profile, I'd have to agree that it might not be his bdsm orientation that is the reason he's not "doing well". The profile is for a submissive not into submission, self-described as friendly but appearing entitled and bitter in his words. Also, I think it would be difficult for a male on CM to get much interest without posting a photo (just a guess) and while it's possible D women like being tall and their men short and/or effeminate, 5'5" would be way too short for someone as superficial as me, and 5'5" and 155 sounds a bit chubby (in fact, it's technically "overweight"). I'm not criticizing, just stating that the facts of your profile (attitude, physical attributes and lack of photo) are more likely the cause for your lack of success meeting people on CM.


quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

Ever stop to consider it's the piss poor attitude you display a lot on here, and nothing to do with your bdsm orientation? Have a better tude, and you'll probably get better replies and reactions.
quote:

ORIGINAL: boytoyinatlanta

i am thinking that i really need to try to switch in bdsm....i am not doing well as a submissive





WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Should everyone switch? (3/29/2009 8:17:05 PM)

I think that empathy and experience can be beneficial in all walks of life.  I also think that people have something akin to tunnel vision when you speak of topping and bottoming.  For some, it is all about dominance and submission.  For others, it is more about the sensations and simply because one may choose to bottom, does not make them necessarily submissive.  Some of the most skilled Tops that I have ever known, were submissives.  They certainly were the most sadistic  biatches I'd ever met.

For those who switch roles (but are not actually Switches!), a great deal of experience can be gained, but it doesn't necessarily mean it will make you a better anything.  The thing is, bottoming won't really teach you what a masochist feels, if you aren't a masochist.  It will, however, teach you what a single-tail (insert whatever instrument you prefer) feels like on the ass of someone who isn't necesssarily enjoying it.  Submitting when you aren't geared toward submission, might teach you about discipline and perhaps even humility, but it won't necessarily provide you any working knowledge of the driving force behind WHY someone who desires to submit finds doing so fulfilling.

I think it does give one a better sense of how the body responds when bound.  I mean, all you need to do is just once experience a muscle cramp when you are bound and gagged to learn a little empathy toward your bottom when next you session and he/she screams "Dammit, motherfucker - I have a muscle cramp!"  I think that for those who work their way up/down the ladder, it can teach technique, and can be beneficial, but it can't really provide you with the impetus to submit, dominate, top or bottom unless that inclinaion exists as part of your personal makeup.



Cage03 -> RE: Should everyone switch? (3/29/2009 9:33:54 PM)

Very well said WinsomeDefiance and AsianChloe.

Cage



JRiddle -> RE: Should everyone switch? (3/31/2009 7:32:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

I think that empathy and experience can be beneficial in all walks of life.  I also think that people have something akin to tunnel vision when you speak of topping and bottoming.  For some, it is all about dominance and submission.  For others, it is more about the sensations and simply because one may choose to bottom, does not make them necessarily submissive...

For those who switch roles (but are not actually Switches!), a great deal of experience can be gained, but it doesn't necessarily mean it will make you a better anything.  The thing is, bottoming won't really teach you what a masochist feels, if you aren't a masochist.  It will, however, teach you what a single-tail (insert whatever instrument you prefer) feels like on the ass of someone who isn't necesssarily enjoying it.  Submitting when you aren't geared toward submission, might teach you about discipline and perhaps even humility, but it won't necessarily provide you any working knowledge of the driving force behind WHY someone who desires to submit finds doing so fulfilling.

I think it does give one a better sense of how the body responds when bound.  I mean, all you need to do is just once experience a muscle cramp when you are bound and gagged to learn a little empathy toward your bottom when next you session and he/she screams "Dammit, motherfucker - I have a muscle cramp!"  I think that for those who work their way up/down the ladder, it can teach technique, and can be beneficial, but it can't really provide you with the impetus to submit, dominate, top or bottom unless that inclinaion exists as part of your personal makeup.

Well said! I highlighted the statements that clearly explain my thoughts.



porcelaine -> RE: Should everyone switch? (4/1/2009 8:16:49 AM)

i believe there are other ways to expose the intricacies of each role to the opposite partner without switching. when one switches, it should be from an inherent desire to dominate or to yield. if you're merely going through the motions i wouldn't consider that switching at all, but simply roleplay.

while it is ideal to have some understanding of the nuances the dominant and submissive face, for some this is impossible. i don't believe one needs to have a physical experience to be able to develop an appreciation for the other person's role.

porcelaine



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