RE: Toyota projects first operating loss since 1941

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RE: Toyota projects first operating loss since 1941 - 12/22/2008 8:08:03 PM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

It didn't blow a hole in anything, but if you want to think it did, have at it. Yes, the unions are a BIG part of the big 3's problems. Sorry you can't understand that.

So tell me....

...large, major companies couldn't see that coming and adjust?

I dont know, could they?

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RE: Toyota projects first operating loss since 1941 - 12/22/2008 8:09:51 PM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Could it also be that they established plants in rural, economically deprived areas that were grateful for any type of jobs and would happily accept lower than industry standard wages because the alternative was $7/hr part-time at the Dollar Store?

I don't know about the Toyota plants, but the Nissan plant in Syrna pays standard wages. They have to do that so the employees stay happy and don't vote a union in.

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RE: Toyota projects first operating loss since 1941 - 12/22/2008 8:15:13 PM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

It didn't blow a hole in anything, but if you want to think it did, have at it. Yes, the unions are a BIG part of the big 3's problems. Sorry you can't understand that.

Ummm. You`ll have to do a bit more than just say so.A debate means one must convince others,not just themselves.
I am not trying to convince you of anything. I am stating my opinion. Nothing I could say would change your mind, so why would I waste the energy trying?

Perhaps an explanation? Yes?

If unions are the problem,then why are non -union car companies also having problems too?
With the economy the way it is, all companies are going to have problems. It's the degree of the problem that is telling in this situation.

Before the economy tanked,no one was talking about unions.
I have hated unions for many many years...this is nothing new and is not brought on by todays economy.

Now? They are "the" problem.
Yup, they are certainly a big part of it.
I will say one thing though,the rightists were extremely successful in high-jacking the debate in their attempt to escape their responsibility for their econo-mess. Yea, those damn rightists.

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RE: Toyota projects first operating loss since 1941 - 12/23/2008 7:01:49 AM

ScooterTrash

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Actually this shouldn't come as any surprise to anyone, including Toyota, since vehicle sales are ALL down. Most all the automakers anticipated a sales decline, just not quite to the magnatude that it happened, since the sky is falling economy kicked in. All the North American (and most likely worldwide) automakers are feeling the crunch.

As to the side debate on vehicle quality, if you are in North America they are all the same actually. The same suppliers who produce components in North America for the Big 3, also produce products for all the transplants, it's not uncommon for the same machinery & people used to produce a run for Honda, on the next run to be producing parts for GM. That's from the inside looking out, it's not speculation on my part. If there are any quality differences it is most likely in the engineering of said vehicle, although it's a remote possibility that final assembly could be of different quality, that's about all that is brand specific. In my experience, reliability probably has more to do with the owner/operator, than it does with the manufacturer.

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RE: Toyota projects first operating loss since 1941 - 12/23/2008 7:15:59 AM

Termyn8or

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I agree totally about the engineering Scoot. It is they who decide where to cut costs, and this is where the US falls flat. The only car from which I ever ever saw a broken lower FRONT A frame was on a Chevy Corsica. We all know ball joints go bad, but for the A frame to literally break in two ? Plis I personally had two Buicks which I liked quite a bit, in which the engine literally fell out, and one of them barely had 100,000 miles on it at the time.

The bolt didn't fall out because some guy on the line did not tighten it sufficiently, the part broke because it was to wimpy wimpy wimpy when it should've been hefty hefty hefty. The guy on the line did not make that specification.

T

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RE: Toyota projects first operating loss since 1941 - 12/23/2008 10:11:10 AM

ArizonaSunSwitch

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quote:

Actually, when it comes to welfare for the commoners, assistance or whatever they choose to call it, only amounts to like 2-3% of the budget. Most of the "welfare" is in the form of pet projects, pork and research "grants". Typical social engineering, I just wish we had better engineers.

Oh give me a break, social security and medicare are 50% percent of the budget now and that's well before the majority of the baby boom begins their government subsidised multi-decade retirement. I don't care how long you put money into social security it's not a retirement plan. Any money you put in is used to support today's retiree's. Anything left over went into the general fund. Social security shows a "surplus" because they received US debt securities in return or in other words they received a promise that the US government would tax working age people more when the social security fund needs it.

Just because a thing isn't called welfare doesn't mean it isn't welfare.

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RE: Toyota projects first operating loss since 1941 - 12/23/2008 10:17:56 AM

justgemmie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Not a pile on for me.

Just a way to blow a huge hole through the guts of the argument that unions are to blame for Detroit's troubles.

No one is buying cars right now.It has to do with frozen credit,consumer confidence and lost jobs/foreclosed homes/etc.

Not the unions.

The Japanese make a fine car and if they opened up their markets(a little more) to our products,it would be a good relationship for both.

yes, it's true "No one is buying cars right now. It has to do with frozen credit, consumer confidence and lost jobs/foreclosed/etc."

However, it is absolutely true that unions had a large part to play.

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RE: Toyota projects first operating loss since 1941 - 12/23/2008 10:25:49 AM

ArizonaSunSwitch

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
Japanese automakers gained a foothold back in the days of the oil embargo. Their cars were great on mileage but short on longevity.

One of the reasons they didn't last long was that in Japan, people replace their cars after a very short time compared to US consumers (we're talking every 2 years.)

thornhappy

Which is a nice way of saying they were pieces of crap.

No it's a nice way of saying they have queer environmental laws that require engine changes about every two years. In some ways the Japanese are polar opposites of us. They'll pass stupid laws hurting their consumers to the benefit of their businesses (which at least helps everybody in the long run). Conversely, we'll bury the big-3 so a bunch of lazy people can keep their job bank private welfare going a little longer (which screws everybody in the long run).

Both countries would benefit from less government intervention. The Japanese aren't as stupid about their interventions as we are.

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RE: Toyota projects first operating loss since 1941 - 12/23/2008 11:23:34 AM

leatherjacket

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Toyota will be fine. They just make a mistake with the introduction of their new Tundra...right before 4 dollar gas. If you take that into account, with the credit crisis, and the fact they don't make much on the Prius due to the high battery costs, things will be tight for awhile. What they have in favor for them is great quality, and great small cars.

This reminds me, anyone see what Top Gear has done over the years to their Toyota Hilux? Oh my.

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RE: Toyota projects first operating loss since 1941 - 12/23/2008 8:04:11 PM

Termyn8or

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OK Ariz, broadening the definition of welfare like that, compare it to what senators and congressmen get for retirement, or these golden parachuites the taxpayers now fund "because it's in the contract". How about military pensions for that matter ?

I believe the word is entitlements, whereas what I intended was the more strict definition.

T

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RE: Toyota projects first operating loss since 1941 - 12/23/2008 11:27:59 PM

Lorr47

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

I also heard this news about Toyota.
I wonder if they will need a "bail out".

Where would they go for the bailout? Is Toyota of America's parent company still in Japan? If so, Toyota would seemingly ask Japan for a bailout just like I believe Mercedes asked Germany for help. However, Toyota may be the only American made automobile. Then, do they get a choice of Japan or the US? In addition, the argument has been made in Europe that the bail out of the Big Three violates numerous free trade agreements between the US and Europe and if we bailout any auto company we are in violation of International Law. So, lets do nothing.

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RE: Toyota projects first operating loss since 1941 - 12/23/2008 11:29:42 PM

Lorr47

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

It must be their own fault for making cars people don't want to buy and paying their workers too much.

Exactly.

And, they just shut down the Prius factory because of a lack of demand.

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RE: Toyota projects first operating loss since 1941 - 12/23/2008 11:35:37 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

It must be their own fault for making cars people don't want to buy and paying their workers too much.

Exactly.

And, they just shut down the Prius factory because of a lack of demand.

That would seem to prove the point, now wouldn't it?

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RE: Toyota projects first operating loss since 1941 - 12/24/2008 12:36:40 AM

Lorr47

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

It must be their own fault for making cars people don't want to buy and paying their workers too much.

Exactly.

And, they just shut down the Prius factory because of a lack of demand.

That would seem to prove the point, now wouldn't it?

No really. Why are GM and Chrysler in deep trouble and Ford not in such deep trouble? Ford arranged for lines of credit several years ago and can weather the storm GM and Chrysler did not arrange for the lines of credit years ago and today such financing does not exist because the banks will not lend. If Wall Street was functioning GM and Chrysler would have gotten the loans to get through this period of time. Was the bailout of GM and Chrysler a bailout of the two auto makers or of Wall Street again. As pulunkboy (sic) recently showed by citing articles we have again bailed out Wall Street. The automakers are into Wall Street big time. Wall Street cannot afford to suffer the auto makers going down and went to their toady and told him if the auto companies did not receive the money that Wall Street would again collapse. So what is the real problem? Thieves on Wall Street are the problem. Why aren't they lending? Where did the money go? Wall Street created the problems. Wall Street is perpetuating the problem. If Wall Street was operating correctly, there would not be an automaker problem at this time because they would have gotten the money from Wall Street.. All the automobile makers in the world are in trouble because the lending institutions have fallen down after mammoth fraud and theft. Demand then follows because there is no lending available to buy cars. Again, Wall Street.

< Message edited by Lorr47 -- 12/24/2008 12:38:35 AM >

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