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Another Great Depression? - 12/23/2008 1:33:15 PM   
celticlord2112


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Another Great Depression?

The lesson of history for governments when economies go south:

"Don't just do something!  Stand there!"


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RE: Another Great Depression? - 12/23/2008 2:15:25 PM   
Marc2b


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Thomas Sowell is one of my favorite authors and an intellect I greatly admire.  It is kind of scary the way history appears to be repeating itself.  Frank Herbert was right, the human race is incredibly short sighted.

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RE: Another Great Depression? - 12/23/2008 2:57:14 PM   
RCdc


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Well, CL... aren't you full of holiday cheer with all these threads and posts youre making with all this spare time on your hands! 
Well, just to put things into perspective, there is a reported world wide flu epidemic on the go, and as conspiracy theories are all the rage, people probably won't be alive to see a depression (sans survivors).
 
Have a crappy christmas and a misterable new year......
 
the.dark.


< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 12/23/2008 2:58:41 PM >


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RE: Another Great Depression? - 12/23/2008 3:24:41 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Well, CL... aren't you full of holiday cheer with all these threads and posts youre making with all this spare time on your hands!

Well, dark, you know what they say about idle hands and all......

(ah, what the hell, Merry Christmas and that other holiday cheer stuff back at ya!)


< Message edited by celticlord2112 -- 12/23/2008 3:25:36 PM >


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RE: Another Great Depression? - 12/23/2008 3:29:25 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
Well, dark, you know what they say about idle hands and all......

(ah, what the hell, Merry Christmas and that other holiday cheer stuff back at ya!)



I know what they say - However, I always tend to beg for hands on experience*swoons* nothings idle with me around -  You know me CL, I never listen to hearsay...
 
Love and christmas cheer to you, and highest regards.
the.dark.


< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 12/23/2008 3:35:40 PM >


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RE: Another Great Depression? - 12/23/2008 3:34:34 PM   
Aneirin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Well, CL... aren't you full of holiday cheer with all these threads and posts youre making with all this spare time on your hands!

Well, dark, you know what they say about idle hands and all......

(ah, what the hell, Merry Christmas and that other holiday cheer stuff back at ya!)



Idle hands ? well if you got them, go and do something more satisfying, and a tip if you care to listen, try it with your non dominant hand, I am told it feels like someone else is doing it.


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RE: Another Great Depression? - 12/23/2008 3:36:53 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Idle hands ? well if you got them, go and do something more satisfying, and a tip if you care to listen, try it with your non dominant hand, I am told it feels like someone else is doing it.

Hmmm.....the non-dominant hand.....that would be the slave('s) hand, right?

Good idea!

(Oh, slave.....)


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RE: Another Great Depression? - 12/23/2008 3:45:47 PM   
Aneirin


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Ah, I see, so you're a right hand man ;

http://www.surfrats.com/gallery/data/500/danger-ThatsComedy_com.JPG




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RE: Another Great Depression? - 12/23/2008 3:55:43 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Ah, I see, so you're a right hand man ;

Actually, I'm ambidextrous.  My slave, however, is right-handed, so I'm sure she'll appreciate the warning.


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RE: Another Great Depression? - 12/23/2008 3:56:08 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

Another Great Depression?

The lesson of history for governments when economies go south:

"Don't just do something!  Stand there!"


CL, I agree with you a lot on stuff.  Please tell me you're being facetious.  We are not going into another "Great Depression."  I am a big time lover of post-apocalyptic fiction.  I know a lot of nerds are wishing that total  breakdownn will happen, but it's not.  The sky is not falling, and you're local diner will be serving coffee with breakfast.  People need to calm the fuck down.  Worldwide depression is not happening.  I know a lot of you want it to.  You have road warrior dreams and post-apocalyptic means......but it's not happening.  Calm down and come up from your bunkers. 

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RE: Another Great Depression? - 12/23/2008 4:03:29 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Please tell me you're being facetious. We are not going into another "Great Depression."

Only partially.  Behind the snark is the notion that, no, this is not a depression--but that it could become one with excessive and ham-handed government interventions.

(Which is the point of the referenced article, actually)


< Message edited by celticlord2112 -- 12/23/2008 4:04:02 PM >


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RE: Another Great Depression? - 12/23/2008 4:06:59 PM   
Aneirin


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I suppose it could be said that another great depression will happen if enough and the right influential people say it will happen, is happening, not happening etc.

Beware the media at times such as this, they in normal times tend to thrive on bad news, don't let them make a bad situation worse.


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RE: Another Great Depression? - 12/23/2008 4:10:55 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

Another Great Depression?

The lesson of history for governments when economies go south:

"Don't just do something!  Stand there!"


CL, I agree with you a lot on stuff.  Please tell me you're being facetious.  We are not going into another "Great Depression."  I am a big time lover of post-apocalyptic fiction.  I know a lot of nerds are wishing that total  breakdownn will happen, but it's not.  The sky is not falling, and you're local diner will be serving coffee with breakfast.  People need to calm the fuck down.  Worldwide depression is not happening.  I know a lot of you want it to.  You have road warrior dreams and post-apocalyptic means......but it's not happening.  Calm down and come up from your bunkers. 


Cl's style is to read something provocative he found on the Internet, post it with little input, wait for others to comment, then pounce on ideas and, ignoring burden of proof, demanding they prove him wrong.

The sky's only falling in worlds with such narrow views. We've been here before. We will be again. And people will scream along the edges along the way. C'est la vie.

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RE: Another Great Depression? - 12/23/2008 4:14:42 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

The sky's only falling in worlds with such narrow views.

Where have I ever said the sky was falling?

Seems to me the referenced article suggests that the sky is not falling, but that erroneous government action might manage to pull it down--much like what happened in the 1930s.

quote:

... the temporary rise in unemployment after the stock market crash was nowhere near the massive and long-lasting unemployment after government interventions.

Not what "will" happen.....merely a cautionary about what "might" happen.



< Message edited by celticlord2112 -- 12/23/2008 4:17:53 PM >


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RE: Another Great Depression? - 12/23/2008 4:39:21 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

Only partially.  Behind the snark is the notion that, no, this is not a depression--but that it could become one with excessive and ham-handed government interventions.

(Which is the point of the referenced article, actually)


I don't even know what you're talking about.  What are you saying?   The government can't intervene.  Obama doesn't have that pull.  No Prez had had it in a long time.  As Martha says, "It's a good thing."

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RE: Another Great Depression? - 12/23/2008 4:53:22 PM   
DouglasTheWolf


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In honesty... the last thing we want is the government getting involved in the free market economy, which is what it is setting itself up to do. With all these bailouts and dumping money into the system with clauses to oversee what happens. Our beloved government is getting ready to transform itself yet again.

In essence we are allowing our socialistic form of government to become a nationalistic culture... I would like to know what happen to our Republic, where in the federal government was suppose to maintain a hands off approach to the states.

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RE: Another Great Depression? - 12/23/2008 5:26:57 PM   
samboct


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I haven't seen a single article on the Great Depression which explains a few key facts yet-

Unanswered questions-

1)  What was the unemployment rate?  Apparently most economists have neglected individuals employed on WPA projects as "make work" or temporary employment and continue to refer to these people as unemployed- which will certainly swell the numbers of the unemployed!  Seems to me that if whether you're building a dam for the WPA or on a road crew in today's world, you have a real job- with wages and a task to fulfill.  If I were a conspiracy theorist, I'd suggest that there's a lot of revisionist history going on with these labor statistics to make the Great Depression appear worse than it was to help build confidence that we're not now undergoing a similar crisis.  It's hard to ignore that both the Great Depression and the current "recession" we're in have a lot of similarities- Republican presidents, crashing stock markets, deflation, and policies which have favored the very rich.
2)  Why did countries such as Japan recover so much faster than the US?  Apparently they got to deficit spending sooner- but was that it?
3)  What actually worked?  Apparently neither Hoover's prescriptions nor Roosevelt's actions succeeded in getting us out of the depression-and some authors have pointed out that even with the draft in WWII which took 8 million men out of the labor force, the depression lasted till after WWII.  I find this highly unlikely- seemed to me that with the massive hiring at defense companies, companies were struggling to fill the workforce.  I know this was the case for Lockheed- one of the largest defense manufacturers.
4)  Most economists gloss over the effects of the dustbowl, but given the large percentage of the economy that was dependent on agriculture, this seems foolish.  Claiming Roosevelt's actions were ineffective because unemployment increased again in 1937 seems to omit natural disasters as a cause of  prolonging the depression.  We may be facing similar challenges with global warming.
5)  A simple distinction between recession and depression.  Strikes me that we're probably in a depression now- never mind recession.

I'm sorry, but all the articles I've seen are poor science/history and have a heavy idealogical bent.  Until there can be basic agreement on terms such as unemployment, depression/recession there is no way to fit all the facts into a cogent theory.

My take on the situation-

Hoover took a recession and spun it into a depression by failing to increase the money supply during a deflation.
Roosevelt tried a bunch of tactics with varying degrees of success.  Much of the "aura" ascribed to Roosevelt is clearly due to a sense of if there's a crisis, inactivity is seen as paralyzing indecision.  Given that a large chunk of the success of an economy is due to confidence it's clear that even actions that may be counterproductive in the long run- if they raise consumer confidence for long enough, can nevertheless have a net positive effect.  It's probable that not all of Roosevelt's policies were successful.

Sam

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RE: Another Great Depression? - 12/23/2008 5:43:56 PM   
popeye1250


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I read Thomas Sowell too and I generally like him but I think in today's case those "free trade" deals are what's causing a lot of unemployment in the U.S.


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