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needing advice -- is this normal? - 12/27/2008 5:08:10 PM

boundfeet

Posts: 10
Status: offline

Hi. I'm fairly new to bdsm and have been in a committed relationship of just under a year. I am struggling with something and am hoping for some constructive feedback.

My owner and I are both single, but do not live together. He has two um's, both over age 18 and one at home. I have two younger ums'. He has been to my house, and met my um's as well as friends of mine.

The question is after this period of time together, is it unreasonable of me to want to meet his um's and other friends? I've only been to his house once in all this time, he normally comes to mine (and only spends the night when um's are not home). For the holidays, I did not hear from him at all on xmas day. I got a msg xmas eve, just saying merry xmas eve. Nothing on the actual holiday. I had invited him over, as well as to some events the weekend before. Neither of which he attended or even acknowledged except for the words "sure, if I am free" when I issued the invite two weeks prior.

I am feeling hurt and a bit put out. Struggling to combine my bdsm needs and position and get them in (or out) of alignment with any romantic bf/gf type needs. I feel like I am kept on the outside of his life, and he tells me that its just him. He is normally this way, has nothing to do with me. But I feel this is deliberate, and/or he is hiding something.

I've really struggled with all this. He says he wants a contract between us. That if we had a contract, then he would feel like he could do those things, fulfill those expectations.

Am I being paranoid? Am I just a booty call? Does this seem like someone that just isn't that into me? Or is this just the holiday weirdness that tends to happen?

Post #: 1

RE: needing advice -- is this normal? - 12/27/2008 5:16:48 PM

sub10dcies

Posts: 6
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline

What does the contract imply or entail? Have you discussed that?

Without knowing the details of that "contract" to me it could be one of two things.

1) He may be acting guarded or cautious because his heart has been hurt in the past and he now is avoiding that.
OR
2) It is just physical with him and he has no interest in a romantic relationship (after 1 year you should know)

(in reply to boundfeet)

Post #: 2

RE: needing advice -- is this normal? - 12/27/2008 5:52:39 PM

kiwisub12

Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline

Shoot - i could just be that he compartmentalises his life to the extent that you will never meet his family. I think if his behaviour hurts your feelings now, it probably won't get better. After all, you two are presumably in the honeymoon phase of your relationship, where you both put your best foot forward, and show your best side.

I think you need to bring a list of wants, desires and expectations to the table when constructing your contract. That way the two of you know exactly what sort of relationship it is that you will have. And if it is going to be the defining document of your relationship, it needs to be spelled out, unambiguously, what is what. As in, write it down in black and white what you want, what you have to have and what is negotiable.

(in reply to sub10dcies)

Post #: 3

RE: needing advice -- is this normal? - 12/27/2008 5:52:56 PM

boundfeet

Posts: 10
Status: offline

No, he says he has romantic interests, including the possibility of our getting married at some point -- the contract is more important to him than marriage. He says he wants to brand and/or tatoo me. He has from the beginning. In fact, he tried to start the relationship with a contract, but I wasn't comfortable with that. And asked if we could begin without it. He agreed. Now he says I cannot have those expectations of him without a contract (though this is the first he has mentioned that part). And he did, upfront, tell me I would have to ask for the contract, that he would not bring it up to me. I am not used to people being so 'closed' about themselves, or their life. I am very open, as is my family.

Are my expectations unrealistic? This is my first RT bdsm relationship. All others have been vanilla.

(in reply to sub10dcies)

Post #: 4

RE: needing advice -- is this normal? - 12/27/2008 6:05:10 PM

califsue

Posts: 593
Joined: 2/2/2008
Status: offline

I would say every relationship is unique and what is normal for one may not be normal for the other.
I don't think it is unreasonable to meet the um's and friends. It sounds like some of your needs or not
being met and it is time to set down and have an honest and open talk with him about needs and expectations.
Some people are very closed about their life and families. Some folks have a need for a contract and some don't.
If you draft a contract, as kiwisub stated make sure it includes everything which means looking down the road
to the future.

(in reply to boundfeet)

Post #: 5

RE: needing advice -- is this normal? - 12/27/2008 6:06:44 PM

SassySarijane

Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline

It concerns me that after a year he is still being as you put it "closed" about himself. You both need to sit down and openly communicate what you both need and expect in a relationship. If he is unwilling to do that much without a contract first, I would reevaluate continuing the relationship. If you both can't or won't openly communicate and tell each other about you as a person, get to really know each other, then I can't see that the relationship will grow, deepen and last. It's been a year, how much longer does he need to open up?

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(in reply to boundfeet)

Post #: 6

RE: needing advice -- is this normal? - 12/27/2008 6:11:24 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

In a nutshell, I'm hearing that you don't trust him to meet your emotional needs. You hear him saying that he would, if there was a contract. You have doubts. I feel a compromise might be a time-dependent contract. Maybe three months or so. If it goes well for that three months, extend it. If not, go your separate ways.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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(in reply to boundfeet)

Post #: 7

RE: needing advice -- is this normal? - 12/27/2008 6:12:16 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

Personally, I wouldn't get involved with someone if I had not met or known their friendship base. You can learn an awful lot about a person by those they associate with and the places they visit. I do not find it an unreasonable request or desire.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to boundfeet)

Post #: 8

RE: needing advice -- is this normal? - 12/27/2008 6:26:49 PM

MistressRouge

Posts: 876
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Birmingham West Midlands UK
Status: offline

A year, is quite some time, and a tad strange that you have not met his close friends at least.

I would most definatley take the advice mentioned, communication is the key. Together discuss the year ahead, expectations etc, and maybe then your owner's motives may become more clear.

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(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 9

RE: needing advice -- is this normal? - 12/27/2008 6:41:15 PM

devotedinSD

Posts: 91
Joined: 11/30/2008
Status: offline

It's a relationship problem, not a BDSM specific problem. Honestly, if he's that distant after 1 year to me that's a sign you're emotionally more involved than him. I also find it iffy that he claims things will change after the contract, shouldn't you be comfortable and emotionally secure with him before the contract and not the other way around?

< Message edited by devotedinSD -- 12/27/2008 6:42:55 PM >

(in reply to boundfeet)

Post #: 10

RE: needing advice -- is this normal? - 12/27/2008 7:16:16 PM

oceanwynds

Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline

Being with him for a year, you probably have some idea to why he is so closed off about you meeting his ums, family and friends. Having a contract means exactly what to him, and why would a contract make him feel safer with you in regards to you being a part of his whole life? Did he ever felt as if you might not be as serious about this relationship? Maybe he didn't want to have you a part of everything, if you weren't staying around?

Sir and i been together for 2 and half years and live apart. My daughter doesn't live with me, and they haven't met. She knows about him, but i have my reasons for not introducing them. I met his Mom once. He has met my Mom and sister. His best friend knows about me right from the get go and we became good friends.

We prefer to have no contracts between us. This too is my first Ds relationship, and Sir is closed as well, but we do well. I think what makes it work for us, is that we both are comfortable with our relationship. I accept what Sir offers and doesn't offer without questioning his intent. However, he doesn't do anything that goes against my basic core. I do not feel i am missing out on anything major between us. Because it works for us though does not mean it can or will for others. The key point is he doesn't do anything that is against my basic core, which is to harm me in any way shape or form. I do not do things that goes against his basic core.

oceanwynds

(in reply to devotedinSD)

Post #: 11

RE: needing advice -- is this normal? - 12/27/2008 8:18:46 PM

peppermint

Posts: 5171
Joined: 10/18/2005
From: Montana
Status: offline

Apparently this is normal to your owner as he has told you...if not to you or others. Now you have to decide if you are willing to continue to be a separate and hidden part of his life. If you are content to continue to live your life like that....then do so. I'm not sure what you were looking for when you two first met. If you were both looking for a long term committed relationship, then perhaps you are more committed then he is. If you were both looking for a long term play partner, then it seems that is what you both have. As far as him saying he might want marriage to you some day...well..it's easy to say something like that. It's much harder to act like that's what he wants. (shrugs) We only have your side of the whole situation.

In my own life, when it became apparent that we felt more for each other than sometimes play partners....we met each others families. I met his daughter, son, and their UMs. He met my sons and their UMs. We both wanted the other involved in our entire life, not just a separate part, and family is a big part of that entire life.

(in reply to boundfeet)

Post #: 12

RE: needing advice -- is this normal? - 12/28/2008 12:07:07 AM

BondageBarbieX

Posts: 495
Joined: 4/1/2008
Status: offline

You sure he is single?

(in reply to peppermint)

Post #: 13

RE: needing advice -- is this normal? - 12/28/2008 1:34:18 AM

julietsierra

Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

And it could just be a holiday thing. Seriously. I've been with my Master now for 6 years. By design, we have never spent a christmas together. It's something both of us understood and agreed to. (Both of us have large family committments and organizational committments for this time of the year and don't want to make things more complicated than they already are.)

And yet, every christmas, every single christmas, I go through tons of angst over this. I feel left out, hurt, ignored, and a whole slew of other feelings about this, yet is was, in part, of my own design. For some reason though, the day after christmas, alll those feelings disappear and I'm fine again - til new years.. .and then I go through it again in smaller proportions.

As near as I can figure out, it's a nostalgia thing - the time of the year when being with family takes on monsterous proportions and can throw the most steady of all people all out of whack. It's the time of year I wish so much for more than I have - more than I really want. My life is not a hallmark card and I don't want it to be, but at christmas time, that's SO what I wish I had.

So, if you were fine with how things were before the holidays stuck their horrid little green and red festive heads into your relationship, you might want to wait till after the holidays to figure out if what you're feeling now is something that has to be addressed with suspicions, tears, anger and insecurity, or if it's just a holiday thing. To me, that's just part of the "holiday cheer."

And since it's only been a year (it took us 2 years before I was ready to introduce him to my family), once the holidays have calmed down and things are back to normal, talk about this and what you'd like to see happen during this upcoming year. And if that means time with you, or you with his family, or him with yours or whatever situation you BOTH would like to have next christmas, organize it then - without the stress of christmas on top of you, creating insecurities where they might not otherwise be.

And to answer the "he could be married" thing, it could also be that the family dynamics in his family are such that keeping you out of that might have been the nicest thing he could have done for you. There are LOTS of families that are just so darn screwed up, and the holidays just brings out the best and worst in them.

juliet

< Message edited by julietsierra -- 12/28/2008 1:39:46 AM >

(in reply to BondageBarbieX)

Post #: 14

RE: needing advice -- is this normal? - 12/28/2008 1:42:48 AM

JustDarkness

Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline

Just ask him and tell him what you think/feel.
All theories your mind makes up...are killers. Reality is the best truth.

(in reply to julietsierra)

Post #: 15

RE: needing advice -- is this normal? - 12/28/2008 2:03:46 AM

julietsierra

Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

Just ask him and tell him what you think/feel.
All theories your mind makes up...are killers. Reality is the best truth.

Oh you are SO right. lol... I think my Master has gotten to the point that my holiday angst phone call has become part of the traditions he "enjoys" (meaning that he doesn't really enjoy it but recognizes that it's part of the process of getting through the holidays).

The problem builds though when you can't get through and can't discuss this. I swear, it's like the blob taking over nyc...except that it's this horrible blob of insecurity that starts to take over your entire head, till common sense disappears from sight. One call though... one little bleeding off of the fears by simply giving them voice, and it's like turning a light on in a room full of shadows. The monster in the corner becomes your desk. In this case, the fears of what could be become simply that he was in the store and couldn't get a signal on his phone... and life is good.

Then, before you know it, the holidays are done with and life is normal again.

juliet

(in reply to JustDarkness)

Post #: 16

RE: needing advice -- is this normal? - 12/28/2008 4:07:41 AM

CatdeMedici

Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline

Why do we think that because we have passed through the hallowed halls of D/s, that basic behaviors in relationships are suddenly supposed to be different just because we carry these titles?

If he was a bf, what would you do? If he was a good friend what would you do? Common sense and comunication have to prevail.

_____________________________

I am the Cat, holder of the whip and chair.

"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

(in reply to boundfeet)

Post #: 17

RE: needing advice -- is this normal? - 12/28/2008 4:35:33 AM

julietsierra

Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

No one says the basic behaviors in relationships have suddenly become different because of what we do. However, to me, relationships themselves are different, if for no other reason than I'm older, I have people I am responsible for, and what I may have not accepted at 20 with no real responsibilities becomes my reality at 49.

At 20, I had a boyfriend who eventually became my husband. I expected him to be at my family gatherings just as he expected me to be at his. There was a lot of negotiating that went on to make sure that we were everywhere we were expected to be during the holiday season. We did it, but not without a lot of travelling, a lot of dropping in and leaving and dropping in and leaving. At the end of it all, we'd sit back and say "whew, we managed."

At 49, I have a Master who is not my husband. I have 3 other people for whom I am responsible in varying degrees due to their ages. My focus is on THEIR christmas, not on mine. We have family traditions that are important to them. My Master is a few years older than me. He has children and grandchildren. His family has traditions that are important to them. There is no way I am pulling him away from his family in order to be with mine. I am not putting my kids on the merry go round of driving to other people's homes and away from their family so that I can be with him.

So, we set this up way back when we began.

All I'm saying is that despite all the organizational agreements we made and the understandings we have, holidays are still tough. I wouldn't change a thing, but they ARE tough. And I know that during this time of the year, any insecurities I might have seem to come barrelling out and do their darnedest to ruin my time with my kids. Stress is high. Money is tight and the least little thing can set this whole set up spiraling into feelings of being unwanted, ignored and a whole bunch of other bad feelings. But the feelings are not true. They are not indicative of other deep dark troubles laying in wait for us. They are not red flags of his complicity in some nast fabrication designed to hide things from me. They're just insecurities. It's just the holiday. And that soup can be pretty bitter.

And then.. the dates fly by and it's done with and omg, I'm still alive and OMG, we're still strong. And we tell each other about the fun stuff that happened when we were with our respective families and we do all right.

So, for the OP, it doesn't have to be something huge, horrible and malignant. It can just be the holidays.

juliet

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 18

RE: needing advice -- is this normal? - 12/28/2008 5:57:54 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

If you've only been to his house once that could indicate he was separated at the time and has since reconciled with his wife. By suddenly changing the agreements you negotiated upfront to demand you request a contract you can't accept as is, he's found a way to refuse to allow you any way to meet his friends and family.To me, that says he has something to hide, like a wife.

Even when we were LDR focusing on our individual families, we still had time to call and talk for two minutes. The fact that he chose to text and not call and talk says to me he may have been unable to make a call that would not have been overheard by someone he didn't want to overhear it, like a wife.

I may be cynical but to me there are glaring red flags here. If he's not that far away, couldn't you find childcare and drive over to his house to pay him a sudden visit?

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to julietsierra)

Post #: 19

RE: needing advice -- is this normal? - 12/28/2008 6:45:41 AM

whis31

Posts: 143
Joined: 5/28/2007
Status: offline

ok, just my two cents worth, i've never been to Master's home, we do live apart. i've seen photos of and i have a good ideal at were it is, Master has and ex for hell that has tried to use the lifesytle against him in court, so we don't want her to figure out he has a slave, on the flip side i live in Master's mother's condo which had been empty for some time, i've been to his grandmother's home, i have met Master's mother and grandma and his youngest son, matter fact i took them to the airport to meet Master for their family vacation. i am also taking care of grandma's home while they are away. Master has meet my family and even taken my daughter out to lunch one day to get to know her better. so in having never been to his home he has let me into much more intmaite parts of his life. Master very rarely stays the night because he has sleep apena, and i can vouch for it! Master talks about his best friend but things have not worked out for me to meet him yet, lol he did ask to borrow me (the best friend)!

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 20

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