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friends vs. enemies - 12/30/2008 11:34:10 PM   
bluefireeyez


Posts: 119
Joined: 12/15/2008
Status: offline 		I was watching Dangerous Minds tonight. It was some thing I stumbled across on tv and remembering that I had watched it when I was younger, I figured it wouldn't hurt to watch it again. I believe that watching a movie over will bring you different insight. This time, a simple quote caught my attention, "It is easier to forgive an enemy than a friend"

It made me start thinking, why is that? We are more invested in our friends than our enemies, so one would think it'd be easier to forgive them. On the flip side, we think our friends are just like us and can't make a mistake. When an enemy does some thing, we might say "oh well that's what I expected them to do"

I'd love to hear others' thoughts on the subject.
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RE: friends vs. enemies - 12/30/2008 11:41:50 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		With friends we anticipate better from them, maybe too much.  A foe, although not always expected that they will do us harm but if they do it is expected and the shock and hurt value is lesser.

The question is how much you can tolerate from either situation.  A true friend doesn't cause intentional harm, an enemy would.

If I had enemies in the past, they are long gone...to not play their game is the best bet for anyone's sanity.  Only keep positive and encouraging people in your life.  The best revenge is happiness.

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RE: friends vs. enemies - 12/30/2008 11:56:56 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		I had the movie on in the background as I was sitting at my desk tonight too.  I think it was on VH1; there wasn't much else on.  As to your question, it's harder to forgive a friend for exactly the reason you mentioned.  We invest a lot of emotions in our friends.  My real friends are people I trust completely.  I would do anything for them within my power if they needed help.  I don't think twice about loaning them things.  I would get out of bed at 3 in the morning in the middle of a thunderstorm to come to their aid.  They are my friends, and I don't have a lot of real friends.  I really don't have enemies.  If I don't like someone, I keep my distance from them.  So they never get a chance to do me harm.  On the few occasions that a friend did that; it hurt.  It's hard to trust them again.  I'm a pretty forgiving person, and I will give second chances to people.  When I forgive, I forgive completely.  But they have to make amends first before I forgive them. 

For example, I got an email a few months ago from an old friend that I stopped talking to.  About 8 years ago, he had been trying to kick a bad drug habit.  I wanted to help him out, so I let him stay with me.  I was giving him rides to work everyday and trying to keep him away from all that shit.  Well one night, the asshole stole my car to go get high.  I didn't see him again until late in the evening the next day.  I should have called the cops, but I didn't want to do it.  I didn't want to see him get in trouble.  He finally showed up with my car, and laid this bullshit story on me about having to go to the hospital.  I told him to get the fuck out and never come around my way again.  I had to restrain myself from beating him to death.  Well like I said, a few months ago he sends me an email.  No apology for what he did.  All he wanted to do was tell me about his recent conversion to Christianity and his new found love of Jesus.  It was the same crap I heard before in a different wrapper.  I didn't answer the email.  I don't want anything to do with the son of a bitch.  Now if a complete stranger did that to me, I could forgive them.  It's a little different when somone you know screws you over than someone you don't does it.   

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RE: friends vs. enemies - 12/31/2008 12:08:14 AM   
suhlut


Posts: 622
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline 		With friends like that.. who needs enemas?

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RE: friends vs. enemies - 12/31/2008 12:19:58 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		if a friend betrays me, it is a BETRAYAL.  Thus harder to forgive.

If an enemy betrays me, well, I expected nothing else.

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RE: friends vs. enemies - 12/31/2008 12:59:17 AM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		Friends are an emotional investment.  If a friend screws up, it's ok with me, and there's nothing to forgive, and nothing for them to apologize for, because it just isn't necessary if we share a genuine friendship.  However, if a person who I thought was a friend does something beyond repair, then there wasn't really a friendship to begin with, so I don't look at it from a forgiveness point of view.  Certain actions burn bridges completely,  and those things (in my world) aren't things that a friend would do.  It's happened a time or two, and there's nothing to forgive, I simply exile him/her from my life, and chalk it up to a poor judgement call on my part.

It runs in extremes for me.  If someone is a loyal friend, I'll be in their corner until the day I die, through the mistakes, the good, the bad, the ugly, and everything in between.   But if someone betrays me on a really gross level, there's nothing to discuss and nothing to forgive.  They're cut off completely....Good bye and adios motherfucker.  And I don't mean maybe.

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RE: friends vs. enemies - 12/31/2008 1:09:17 AM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		I'll say another thing.  It takes a lot of balls for an enemy or a stranger to come ask forgiveness.  Really, they have no reason to believe an apology would be accepted; they don't have anything to manipulate you with.  Depending on what the offense was, I'd have to listen to an apology like that.  A backstabbing friend has to overcome the suspicion of trying to be manipulative. 

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RE: friends vs. enemies - 12/31/2008 6:21:26 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

We are more invested in our friends than our enemies

People are far more invested in their enemies than their friends--and why not?  Friends are everywhere.  A good enemy is a rare find indeed.


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RE: friends vs. enemies - 12/31/2008 6:27:33 AM   
bluefireeyez


Posts: 119
Joined: 12/15/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks to everyone for responding.

Why is it that we expect so much from friends? Cognitively, we know that they are only human and they are prone to mistakes and poor judgements. Even still, the knowledge doesn't help any. I had a friend who I told everything to, a couple of months ago I told him about my feelings for him. I didn't ask for a relationship, or try to push him in any direction. Even still, he got mad at me and then stopped talking to me. We had talked about a relationship before, and decided it was better to stay friends, so I didn't think my telling him would be that big of a deal. Unfortunately, he thought it was. I am pretty sure that even with our history, I will never be able to forgive him enough to talk to him again.

However, if he was just some guy I don't think I would care as much. It is just a wierd paradigm that seems to be more about self protection than anything else.

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RE: friends vs. enemies - 12/31/2008 6:40:40 AM   
LaTigresse


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Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Well number one, I don't have enemies. To do so would require an emotional investment in a person I am not willing to give most people, let alone someone I don't particularly care for.

I also don't feel that forgiveness is an issue with my loved ones. Here's the reason behind my madness. I remember a thread once about expectations. KoM said something that I've always had in the back of my mind but was not fully formed until I read what he wrote. I haven't a clue as to the exact words or what the thread even was to find it. However the concept of it was something like this.

People don't disappoint or betray us. Our expectations of them are what betrays us. They are just being them. It was our preconceived, and apparently wrong, ideas of who that person was, that was skewed. Since that lightbulb moment I have found it so much easier to not even have to think about forgiveness. It isn't necessary.

Human beings are deeply flawed creatures. Rarely is one 100% good, or 100% bad. They are just, them. Our biggest flaw is to expect anything different. We project upon people what WE WANT THEM TO BE, not what they are. When you really accept this, and accept your own responsibility in it, then the need for considering whether or not to forgive becomes a moot point.


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RE: friends vs. enemies - 12/31/2008 7:45:16 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

People don't disappoint or betray us. Our expectations of them are what betrays us. They are just being them. It was our preconceived, and apparently wrong, ideas of who that person was, that was skewed. Since that lightbulb moment I have found it so much easier to not even have to think about forgiveness. It isn't necessary.




I didn't know KOM said that, but I've said the same thing to myself before, in coming to terms with some things.  So I agree!

We are vulnerable to the people we love (in various degrees) so it hurts more when they screw up or disappoint us.  In some cases, they are just being who they are.  In some cases, we know that, and we know who they are, and still we expect differently from them (in other words, it wasn't a matter of poor judgment, it was a matter of expecting someone to be something we know they are not). 

For those who are friends and who blow it, well, we're all human.  I don't subscribe to the "they were never a friend in the first place" theory.  But I do think that people change, and that people do the best they can for the most part, and are going to disappoint others along the way.  When certain boundaries are crossed, the door to that particular friendship might close, simply because there are certain things I will allow in my life and certain things I won't.  It has nothing to do with the other person - their intentions, their friendship, their feelings - and everything to do with what is acceptable for me. 

It hurts, but I recover and move forward. 

With strangers...there is nothing invested, nothing bared, no vulnerability, no history of camaraderie.  And like you, LaTigresse, I don't have enemies.  That is just such a waste of energy.  There may be people I don't care for, or people who rub me wrong on occasion, but I don't focus on that.  I try to focus on the more positive things and people in this world. 


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RE: friends vs. enemies - 12/31/2008 8:06:26 AM   
blacksword404


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Joined: 1/4/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

A true friend doesn't cause intentional harm, an enemy would.


Sure they do. Difference is an enemy won't care that they hurt you and a true friend will. We are all human and prone to make human mistakes. We all have probably intentionally hurt someone for dumb reasons.

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RE: friends vs. enemies - 12/31/2008 2:03:50 PM   
MmeGigs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
quote:

We are more invested in our friends than our enemies

People are far more invested in their enemies than their friends--and why not?  Friends are everywhere.  A good enemy is a rare find indeed.


That's really sad.  Even if it's intended as a joke, it's cynical and sad.

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RE: friends vs. enemies - 12/31/2008 6:20:20 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		A true friend doesn't cause intentional harm, an enemy would.


quote:

Sure they do. Difference is an enemy won't care that they hurt you and a true friend will. We are all human and prone to make human mistakes. We all have probably intentionally hurt someone for dumb reasons.


Then you have some sh*tty friend then.   I wouldn't even call them a friend lol.

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RE: friends vs. enemies - 1/3/2009 1:53:27 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

KoM said something


You do realize that you make me sound alot smarter than I am!  But regardless... I think you stated things very well and likely alot better than I ever did.

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