Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities (Full Version)

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khalya -> Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities (12/31/2008 4:46:02 PM)

I was perusing the forums, as I often do, and I came across an interesting topic. I read it, and I appreciated the comments that were left, but there was one thing that concerned me.

The individual that posted the question had horrible spelling. Her spelling wasn't the problem. The problem was the people that attacked her based on her ability to spell. It was pointed out--by a member-- that the poster had severe dyslexia, and had informed the community by putting that information in her profile. It was then suggested that she alert everyone on the forums, by putting this information in her signature, so she wouldn't get attacked.

The poster shouldn't have to alert anyone to anything. She should be able to ask a question, and get an answer; irregardless of the manner in which it was spelled. No one should get attacked based on their spelling.

Time and time again, I see people being attacked about their ability to spell, or their grammar errors. If a person is genuinely wanting information about the lifestyle, and they are brave enough to ask, then I think that there is a responsibility for more experienced individuals to answer in a non-judgemental manner.

This is one of the few place where people can get information about the lifestyle. Consequently, the forums should be a safe space for everyone.




marie2 -> RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities (12/31/2008 4:57:13 PM)

This has come up before, and I hate to admit it, but it's one of those things that sticks in my craw.   I don't know why, but I find it heartbreaking when people start to attack and insult people with poor spelling/grammar skills...whether it's the result of dyslexia or just a poor ability to memorize correct spelling or some other learning disability, or whatever.  It reminds me of the weakest kid in high school getting bullied.  I find it thoroughly revolting.  I think it should be an immediate TOS to tear into people for being poor spellers.  It's so god damn lame, really.




Termyn8or -> RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities (12/31/2008 5:02:44 PM)

I must at least partially agree. First of all I see enough errors by the supposedly umencumbered, educated members. Of course this is all over the net and we already know that we can't expect perfection.

However if the encumberance prevents actually communicating the question properly, straightening that out can be cumbersome. "Did you mean this or that ?" type of issue. This is more than just the too, to, two or the where, wear and other similar issues. Sometimes the sentence structure is so crazy you just can't understand.

I would say the best policy would be to ask for clarification, suggest that one improve, or move on. There is no reason to cut people down.

T




JustDarkness -> RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities (12/31/2008 5:04:20 PM)

There are foreigners too..like me..that do their best to type/spell decent english.
Sadly we don't always succeed.




mc1234 -> RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities (12/31/2008 5:15:38 PM)

This is something that's bothered me as well.  I'm a grammar freak, but if I was having a face-to-face conversation with someone and they used improper grammar, would I immediately discount them?  Would I correct them?  Admittedly, I'd cringe a bit inside, but I wouldn't let it affect my opinion of the person.  It's an easy and lame attack. 

And JustDarkness ... I can't tell you how amazing I think it is that those who don't have English as their first language are able to communicate on the boards.  I wish I knew a second language as well, outside of a few of the curse words I remember my grandparents using.  lol




JustDarkness -> RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities (12/31/2008 5:18:55 PM)

lol if you live in a small country with 16 million people only...you need to know at least 2 or 3 languages.
Many overhere know dutch, english and french or german.
It is indeed handy.

The only thing that is very hard...is to put emoption is your words. ( and occasionally..spelling)




GreedyTop -> RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities (12/31/2008 5:22:13 PM)

I tried to learn to speak Dutch...

I managed a few phrases (which I'm beginning to forget for lack of use).  I'm going to try French, since I took it in school.

What amazes me is people who learn English as a second language and can put together coherent sentences (such as you, Darkness), given the vast differences in grammatical structure.. I've had several people say that English is a difficult language to learn for just that reason.




mc1234 -> RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities (12/31/2008 5:23:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness
The only thing that is very hard...is to put emoption is your words. ( and occasionally..spelling)


I can understand that ... emoticons are your friends.  [:)]




mc1234 -> RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities (12/31/2008 5:25:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop
I've had several people say that English is a difficult language to learn for just that reason.


All you have to do is try and teach a child proper English, spelling and grammar ... it reminds me how many stupid rules there are as my kids go through school. 




JustDarkness -> RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities (12/31/2008 5:27:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I tried to learn to speak Dutch...

I managed a few phrases (which I'm beginning to forget for lack of use).  I'm going to try French, since I took it in school.

What amazes me is people who learn English as a second language and can put together coherent sentences (such as you, Darkness), given the vast differences in grammatical structure.. I've had several people say that English is a difficult language to learn for just that reason.



Overhere all our movies and tv-series are subtitled. So it is easy to learn..when young...while having fun. You read subtitles and hear english.
Then in school...you have to take english. So we are brainwashed with english..which is good. lol
Our language already has many english, french and german words in it. That helps too. (guess beeing conquerd has advantages)




khalya -> RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities (12/31/2008 5:27:33 PM)

English is a ridiculous language, and all of the rules of grammar have at least twenty exceptions. Also, there are silent letters. It is almost impossible to spell anything correctly all the time. I am learning Arabic, and I must say it is much easier to spell phonetically:) Even though I don't understand completely understand the language, I can at least read it, and write the sounds as I hear them.




hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities (12/31/2008 5:29:23 PM)

I've seen the topic come up a multitude of times.  I've been asked on more than one occassion why I tend to be a bit Anal regarding my insistance on having good written communication skills - grammer, spelling, punctuation, etc. - if someone is going to contact me via email.  I've been asked that frequently enough, in fact, that I finally wrote a public journal entry regarding my reasons for said anal attitude - I'm reposting that journal entry here.
 
quote:

Someone inquired recently as to the reasons for my seeming bit of analness (is that even a word?) concerning the use of good grammer, spelling, and punctuation whilst writing.  To enlighten the masses (though I have my doubts as to whether they'll actually read this, or pay heed to it if they do) I've decided to answer said question.


In my past, I have been plagued with the attentions of men who lacked good writing skills.  A lack which I overlooked and ignored with the thought that I was perhaps being unfair to them, or there must be Some good reason why the lack existed.  There was a good reason - it indicated a lack of sufficient intelligence on their part to keep up with me mentally. 

Those attempted relationships subsequently failed for various reasons, most of which can be traced back to the inequity of our respective Ability to learn, and to retain comprehension of what we learned.  This, in turn, taught me that it is unwise for me to attempt to form any sort of serious relationship with someone who lacks the ability to easily and quickly demonstrate to me that his level of intelligence is similar to my own.

I grew to view the ability to communicate effectively in this medium as an indication of potential suitability.  I reasoned that someone who Actively Chooses to use the written word as a form of self introduction, networking, screening for potential mates, and hence communication, yet is incapable of actually Using said medium to the commonly accepted scholastic standards, in all likelihood there is one of four causes:
  1. The person lacks sufficient intelligence to learn - in which case I have no use for them.  Pity perhaps, but little use. 
  2. The person is to lazy to learn - in which case I have even less use, and utterly no sympathy, for them.  Lazy people tend to deny personal responcibility, which is something that I simply will not tolerate in another. 
  3. The person is so bound by their own ego they fail to realize that they need honest improvement in such a simple area - in which case I not only have no use for them, but seriously feel they need to see a shrink to address their issues with narcicism. 
  4. English (the written language of my native tongue) is not their first language - in which case we probably have to little in common to sustain more than a passing aquaintance, and would be unable to communicate effectively outside the written word as well.

Since I wrote that explanation, I've been accused by a couple of folks (most of whom couldn't spell or use correct grammer or punctuation during their tirade) of being pretensious (I'm not), of being elitist (only sometimes), of being arrogant (check the thesaurus - that's the same as saying pretensious), and gods forbid my fingers got ahead of my brain and I happened to have a typo that got missed during edit review - of being a hypocrit (I'm not - I hold myself to the same grammatical standards that I hold anyone and everyone else.)




JustDarkness -> RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities (12/31/2008 5:30:49 PM)

I prefer english above..dutch, german and especially french..anytime.
The problem with dutch is..1 word has 2 or more meanings. Then it becomes hard to explain.

In english I always have probs with words like were and where. And not to forget the confusion that british english and american english brings.




AmbrosialWench -> RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities (12/31/2008 5:38:59 PM)

Slight spelling errors and/or typos do not bother me. However, continual misspelling makes me judge them. If someone knows they have a problem with spelling, then use spell check. Therefore, if someone has a lot of misspelled words, I consider them lazy.

mc1234, I believe most people would not want to associate with someone they felt were continuously verbalizing bad grammar. It would be annoying and seen as a sign of being uneducated. I do not include people who are foreigners.  However, I do feel it is rude to say something in person or over the internet.




Aszhrae -> RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities (12/31/2008 5:42:17 PM)

As I have received a post privately.
Some people find it easier to criticize other peoples shortcomings and flaws than to be helpful.
Then of course there are those people that choose to understand and accept, but usually by that time the person has already stopped asking their questions and only read posts in silence.
Then of course its not just the grammatical errors that get criticized, its also the content of the post because we are all expected to be clinicians of communication.




OrionTheWolf -> RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities (12/31/2008 5:46:10 PM)

~FR~

I have a friend with dyslexia, but to read any of his posts and such, you would not know it. Instead he takes the extra time to use MS Word, and then copy and pastes from it. He feels that if he wishes to effectively communicate, then he should do his best possible, is he expects that others should do their best possible to understand. Imagine what the world would be like if instead of excuses, people did their best possible? Yeah sure we all have room for improvement, but that does not remove certain virtues that may be better to strive for.




marie2 -> RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities (12/31/2008 5:48:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: I hold myself to the same grammatical standards that I hold anyone and everyone else.)

 
Does that mean you'd want someone to let you know that your post and spelling insert are riddled with misspellings? 




Cyrce -> RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities (12/31/2008 6:00:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach


Since I wrote that explanation, I've been accused by a couple of folks (most of whom couldn't spell or use correct grammer or punctuation during their tirade) of being pretensious (I'm not), of being elitist (only sometimes), of being arrogant (check the thesaurus - that's the same as saying pretensious), and gods forbid my fingers got ahead of my brain and I happened to have a typo that got missed during edit review - of being a hypocrit (I'm not - I hold myself to the same grammatical standards that I hold anyone and everyone else.)

 
 you have mispelled pretentious, hypocrite, and  insistence




Termyn8or -> RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities (12/31/2008 6:07:57 PM)

Peach, fair is fair.

When you mean "also" the word is "too" not "to".

There is also an "E" on the end of "hypocrite".

Don't sweat it, just remember I callem as I seeum. (now is that netspeak or just laziness ? )

T




came4U -> RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities (12/31/2008 6:28:44 PM)

Others' spelling and grammar on forums doesn't really matter to me.  Yet, a man's profile filled with mistakes is a no-no and I'd pass it by. 




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