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RE: Meshing of Religion - 1/1/2009 3:16:56 PM

Aszhrae

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I would agree with you, littlewonder, that moral beliefs are a key factor in the compatibility of any relationship, not just within a D/s or M/s. An individual would have to consider the compatibility within a marriage or common-law relationship.
Certainly a factor would also be the importance of ritual within the relationship. It may not be as important for some but for others it might.
For example if one individual believes in a patriarchal manifestation as the foundation of their religion. Not so sure an individual that believes in a matriarchal manifestation as the foundation of their religion would be compatible as there would always be a difference in opinion.
Example:
Eve was subordinate to Adam
the opposite,
Lilith as equal to Adam

_____________________________

To my own self, I be true.

Goddess bless and keep you and yours safe

Ricah-Azzh

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 41

RE: Meshing of Religion - 1/1/2009 3:18:38 PM

CatdeMedici

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Joined: 10/20/2008
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Ruined a few and nixed some before they even got a chance. I too am a Pagan.

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I am the Cat, holder of the whip and chair.

"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

(in reply to khalya)

Post #: 42

RE: Meshing of Religion - 1/1/2009 3:19:57 PM

SylvereApLeanan

Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

Wow. Talk about ignorant and misinformed. You seriously need to pick up some history and anthropology books and educate yourself. Really. While you're at it, look up the definition of syncretize.

Nice job refuting my points. . If you think I'm wrong, than provide a counter-argument. You do realize that syncretization is generally done without any critical examination or logical unity. People may do that with religion, but it doesn't make it correct.

The Emperor Theodosian issued a series of decrees in the years 341, 345, 356, 381, 383, 386 and 391 CE. The effect of these orders was to "suppress all rival religions, order the closing of the temples, and impose fines, confiscation, imprisonment or death upon any who cling to the older [Pagan] religions (Joseph McCabe, "A Rationalist Encyclopaedia: A book of reference on religion, philosophy, ethics and science," Gryphon Books (1971). Excerpts appear at: http://www.christianism.com/).

The period of relative religious tolerance in the Roman Empire ended as Pagan temples were seized and converted to Christian use or destroyed. Priests and Priestesses were exiled or killed. Christianity and Judaism became the only permitted religions. In Spain, bishop Priscillian, who taught some Gnostic beliefs was the first person to be condemned as a heretic and executed by his fellow Christians on religious grounds. The church used the power of the state to begin programs to oppress, exile or exterminate both Pagans and Gnostic Christians. By the end of the century, Pagan temples had been either destroyed or recycled for Christian use. Pagan worship became punishable by death http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_hise.htm Copyright 1996 to 2005 by Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance).

So much for your assertion that most people peacefully converted to Christianity.

As for the issue of syncretism, there's nothing inherently wrong with it. Syncretism is a time-honored tradition of incorporating one culture's spiritual beliefs with that of another. Humans have been doing it since Dynastic Egypt in order to keep the peace between conquering tribes and vassal states or as a form of respect such as when nobility of nations with differing spiritual philosophies intermarried. Your bias is not based on any logical reasoning, merely your own ill-informed prejudices.

_____________________________

Sylverë
Dark Muse
30 Fluffy Points
Grumpy Cat is my spirit animal.
Shadow Governess & Mean Girl

"There's something that doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick."— The Doctor

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 43

RE: Meshing of Religion - 1/1/2009 3:27:50 PM

Aneirin

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Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
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General reply ;

If asked, I describe myself as pagan, I am pagan until such a time occurs if ever that I can honestly take another label for my belief. My belief is a mix of ancient Greek, Roman ,Hindu, Buddhist, Tao, Christian and Muslim, a right old mix of what many would think are opposing belief systems. I think not, for I see a common thread running through all belief systems, a core of similar principles, it is to these that I adopt an understanding to be understood.

Pagan as far as I am aware simply means ; country folk, the heathen, them from the heath, the moor dwellers, the worst land, the poor people, rough and ready, Quite unlike the 'civilised' town folk. Now, I understand pagan as to mean any belief system that is not Judeo/Christo/Islamic, i.e. anything other than a foundation harking back to the Christian God.

My belief system, with it's 'supermarket shopping' methods of taking what one likes and leaving what one dislikes, many would have no patience for, but I find it works, for me at least, also with influences from other belief systems, there is an understanding for other belief systems, and I think those that follow those systems.

In answer to the OP, the asked question, about has anyone dealt with a conflict of beliefs in a relationship, my answer, one does not have to be of different belief systems to conflict, but even the same belief system, there are disagreements. For example, a couple of past friends, they of the free Bretheren, though being the free, they had differing views which caused arguments, the type of argument where they had to agree to disagree, by prior arrangement to stop the argument escalating. There is also pagans, pagan being the 'supermarket' belief, I would say all pagans have a different belief, and that can cause disagreement, and in my experience, it has.

Perhaps religion, belief, spirituality should not be talked about, for it always seems to cause disagreements leading to arguments and further if not checked in time. Perhaps it is what we believe should be, and stay a private matter for the believer to contemplate.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to beargonewild)

Post #: 44

RE: Meshing of Religion - 1/1/2009 3:35:13 PM

Aszhrae

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~FR~
Concerning the thread I just had this thought.
Gulliver's Travels
Lilliputians war because of which end to eat the egg from: narrow or wide.

_____________________________

To my own self, I be true.

Goddess bless and keep you and yours safe

Ricah-Azzh

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)

Post #: 45

RE: Meshing of Religion - 1/1/2009 3:59:46 PM

bluefireeyez

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The title of this thread sparked my interest, the battling of ideas (in my opinion) answered the OP's question in more ways than perhaps she anticipated. When people start talking about religion it gets dicey.

I consider myself Lutheran, as that is the religion in which I was baptised and confirmed. Many of my core beliefs still center around those ideologies. However, as I started to explore Mythology I came to realize that the stories of the beginning of many religions have the same basic components. Five people can be in the same room, and have/hear the same conversation and they will all have different perceptions of what happened. Furthermore, the human mind is incapable of compiling and combining every single piece of information availabe. Combining those three bits of knowledge, I came to belive that perhaps not one religion was right but that if we looked at all of them we might start to understand God or "the powers that be".

I am a combination of many things, mainly German, British, and Native American. I tend to mix several combonents of Christianity and Wicca with a hint of other religious beliefs. I was always told in church that Psychic ability and/or 'special powers' was the work of the devil. My mother will confirm that when I was little, I often talked to and saw ghosts. As I grew older, I would tell stories that inevitably came true and had many prophetic dreams. I wondered why, if there were prophets such as David, couldn't people in this life have those same gifts. My currents beliefs work for me, no matter what other people may think of them.

And yes, I have had relationships ruined because of them.

(in reply to Aszhrae)

Post #: 46

RE: Meshing of Religion - 1/1/2009 4:50:18 PM

hizgeorgiapeach

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bluefireeyez
However, as I started to explore Mythology I came to realize that the stories of the beginning of many religions have the same basic components.

As far as the exploration of Mythology - and specifically the Creation Myth Cycles of various cultures - heh, that was at one time a minor passion of mine. During one semester of college, I was in a creative writing and college level English combined honors course. (Yes, my use of the written language has gotten sloppy over the years since then. I'm trying to get myself back into the habit of being more attentitive to my editing!) We had to write a term paper as part of our Final for the course - researched, and then written to specific style - we chose the subject ourselves and nothing was off limits. Mine was a Comparative Study of Creation Myths across the Globe. I researched every type of myth cycle I could get documentation on - ranging from Judeo-Christian to Greco-Roman to Celtic, Norse, Native North American, Indian (Hindu/Cushtic), several African, a couple of Native South American, and various Polynesian and Oriental. The study was enlightening - and the paper was a blast to write. Unfortunately, several of the kids in the class who were barely out of their teens (19 and 20 yr olds - I was 29, divorced, and had a kid I was raising while going to school full time and working part time) - all of whom were very Christian - ended up wanting to lynch me because of that paper. Seems they took serious offence that I included the Judeo-Christian cycle in with the rest, even though it falls very cleanly within the academic definition of a set of myths. (Hell, I even included that academic definition of what encompasses a Myth, specifically, in the preface of the paper - just so it was very clear why each set got included in the paper!)

_____________________________

Rhi
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Essential Scentsations

(in reply to bluefireeyez)

Post #: 47

RE: Meshing of Religion - 1/1/2009 5:38:16 PM

Aszhrae

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When I met my first mistress, back when I was 16 in the Pentecostal church that she also attended. My personal beliefs came under scrutiny when I would question how those can limit the might of their God. It came to the point where a pastor actually accused me of being a child of Satan. It was because of personal view of christinity that initially was responsible for my first mistress being interested in me. Another interesting belief that I had was concerning Genesis and how God gave Adam the ability to name everything and that he would power over the things that he named. One of the first things Adam named was God thus giving Adam power over God.
By our beliefs we bestow upon the unseen their ability and might to aid us in the world.
I am also reminded of another Pastor at the same church, that quite often we would speak about such things in private. He admitted to me that he shared the same beliefs as I did, but at the same time his personal beliefs could not be discussed with the congregation as a whole. If he did he would no longer be accepted by the congregation.
My activities among the congregation soon became short-lived as I did not believe as they did that man has the right to set such limits.
If it is not mentioned as being unto God or Yahweh within the bible, then it is to be conquered, subjugated or destroyed.

_____________________________

To my own self, I be true.

Goddess bless and keep you and yours safe

Ricah-Azzh

(in reply to hizgeorgiapeach)

Post #: 48

RE: Meshing of Religion - 1/1/2009 8:02:47 PM

lronitulstahp

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It's funny, i was thinking a bit more about this thread, and it dawned on me, i never answered the OP's question.

i am a Christian. i guess my Christianity is sort of a buffet-style religion. i take what i like, what works for me, what i think through prayer and revelation is useful in my life's walk, i attend church, i try my best to follow the "Love thy neighbor as thyself" line of thinking more than the whole "Thou shalt not..."stuff. i think Jesus tried to revolutionize the teachings of His time. He was more tolerant, and compassionate, and wanted to reveal that side of God. i do believe in Christ, however The TDHO isn't religious, or spiritual. Somehow, it's not an issue for Him that we aren't spiritually compatible. In fact, He encourages me to be faithful...if i try to sleep in or hang out rather than go to church as i usually do every week...He tells me to go. If i use the Lord's name in vain, or say something really irreverent, He calls me on it, and expects me to knock it off.

Recently we had a discussion,about it. Actually a few days ago...and i told Him how i realized that the way i represent myself as a Christian, if i belittle G-d or my relationship with G-d, who's to say that as i belong to The TDHO, i wouldn't do something dishonorable to Him? i am accountable to G-d first in everything, but i do happen to believe that perhaps Sir is a gift from Heaven sometimes(did i actually SAY that???)....He definately keeps me on the straight and narrow with certain things. The thing is, i don't try to force my beliefs on Him, and He doesn't try to force His disbelief on me. And it seems to work.

_____________________________

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

(in reply to khalya)

Post #: 49

RE: Meshing of Religion - 1/1/2009 8:22:53 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae

Promised a few people that I would not allow my self to be so easily provoked.

Seems you may have to apologize for a broken promise, since you're not touching it.

While his statements were largely incorrect, it does serve an important purpose:

It illustrates what I mean when I say people have ruined relationships.

What broke them up, wasn't a difference in religious convictions. It was the two of them not being inclined to sit down together with the history books and such to uncover the truth behind the areas where they had a difference of opinion, instead arguing with each other and making harsh generalizations like "ignorant and misinformed." My beloved is a pagan. I am founding my own branch off the Judeo-Christian-Islamic tree. That has not been a problem for us. Yes, there have been spirited debates. At times, apologies have been in order, and duly delivered. Yet, we've both come out of this with a deeper commitment to each other, and a better understanding of both our faiths, and the historical facts behind them. It all comes back to the classic story of the priest who would not wed a couple until they'd had an argument over something important to them both- that's when you meet the person you're considering spending your life with.

So, no, religion hasn't ruined any relationships for me.

People, however, have... plenty often.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Aszhrae)

Post #: 50

RE: Meshing of Religion - 1/1/2009 8:25:58 PM

slaveboyforyou

Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

So much for your assertion that most people peacefully converted to Christianity.

I could copy and paste information from sources that are in complete disagreement with the ones you posted. It wouldn't prove anything. The information you provided doesn't prove that most people were converted by force to Christianity either. It was information I was already aware of. The seizure of temples and outlawing of other religions is something that has been done in all cultures at different times. If you want a good example, look at pre-Christian Rome's (pagans) dealings with the Christian minority. Your post doesn't disprove any of my assertions.

quote:

As for the issue of syncretism, there's nothing inherently wrong with it. Syncretism is a time-honored tradition of incorporating one culture's spiritual beliefs with that of another. Humans have been doing it since Dynastic Egypt in order to keep the peace between conquering tribes and vassal states or as a form of respect such as when nobility of nations with differing spiritual philosophies intermarried. Your bias is not based on any logical reasoning, merely your own ill-informed prejudices.

It maybe a "time-honored", but it still doesn't tend to go through any critical examination or follow logic. My biases are not based on any prejudice. I had no preconceived notions about neo-pagans when I first became interested in what they were saying. I simply find many of their assertions to be bogus and much of their behavior to be pretentious.

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)

Post #: 51

RE: Meshing of Religion - 1/1/2009 8:40:29 PM

SylvereApLeanan

Posts: 8275
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From: Hell
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
I could copy and paste information from sources that are in complete disagreement with the ones you posted. It wouldn't prove anything. The information you provided doesn't prove that most people were converted by force to Christianity either. It was information I was already aware of. The seizure of temples and outlawing of other religions is something that has been done in all cultures at different times. If you want a good example, look at pre-Christian Rome's (pagans) dealings with the Christian minority. Your post doesn't disprove any of my assertions.

Scholars have already refuted the claim that conversion to Christianity was largely peaceful, so your sources are either out-of-date, or hopelessly biased in favor of Xtian propaganda. Your decision to remain willfully ignorant in the face of solid evidence of which you are, by your own admission, already aware ends any possibility of rational discussion with you and renders whatever you may have to say as bogus and pretentious as you claim your neo-Pagan ex and her friends to be. You can try to argue the point, but you're fighting a battle you've already lost.

_____________________________

Sylverë
Dark Muse
30 Fluffy Points
Grumpy Cat is my spirit animal.
Shadow Governess & Mean Girl

"There's something that doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick."— The Doctor

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 52

RE: Meshing of Religion - 1/1/2009 9:19:09 PM

slaveboyforyou

Posts: 3607
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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

Scholars have already refuted the claim that conversion to Christianity was largely peaceful,

No they haven't. Your assertion that ALL scholars (which seems to be your assertion) is the ignorant one. I haven't lost anything. Copying and pasting some information from religioustolerance.com isn't going to convince me that I'm wrong. The subject is a broad one, and there are volumes upon volumes written about it.

The pagan temples within the Roman Empire were closed, and that's documented. But that only accounts for a small portion of the history of Christianity's spread. It was peacefully adapted by the Celts in the British Isles. When the Anglo-Saxons (pagans) invaded the British Isles after Rome's departure from the island, they encountered a largely Christian population. However, they converted to Christianity after a peaceful visit from St. Augustine. Ireland of course peacefully converted after St. Patrick's famous missionary work, and that was after he had fled enslavement on the island by pagans. The rest of Europe that had all been outside of Rome's influence converted peacefully through the work of missionaries. The Eastern Orthodox version of Christianity spread throughout Eastern Europe peacefully, and remained after the Ottoman invasion and fall of Constantinople. The later atrocities committed by the Catholic Church had nothing to do with forced conversion. Europe had already been converted to Christianity. It's why Protestantism developed, not a return to paganism.

In the Americas, there were attempts by the Spanish Conquistadors to forcefully covert the native population. It wasn't very successful, and it wasn't the goal of the Conquistadors. It was mainly done to avoid scrutiny from the Catholic Church while they plundered the Western Hemisphere in search of treasure. Later European settlers like the Dutch, British, Germans, etc. did not forcefully convert natives to Chrisitianity. However they did attempt missionary work, which sometimes was accepted and sometimes wasn't.

I could go on and on. But your assertions are wrong. Most scholars have not refuted that Christianity was spread peacefully by and large. It was, and history shows that. It doesn't mean there weren't instances of it, like in the early days of Christianity in the Western Roman Empire. But for the most part it was spread peacefully.

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)

Post #: 53

RE: Meshing of Religion - 1/2/2009 6:09:06 AM

NYLass

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Joined: 12/30/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: khalya

In my experience, this has never come up, but I was wondering what would happen if it did. I am, to put it mildly, a pagan. To anyone that walks into my apartment, it is blatantly obvious that there is juju working in there.

Has anyone had an experience where religious differences ruined an established relationship?

Sorry to be so late in responding, but I just saw this and had to respond.

I was married over 20 years. We were both non practicing Catholics. We had a wonderful marriage and our son is now 19. One day he came home and announced we needed to be born again. We were destined to burn in hell and had to repent. I thought he was joking. Our 'playtime' disappeared and then even the sex became an issue. The divorce was finalized a few months ago.

When some men reach 50, they have affairs or get a sports car. Mine was reborn. He went from caning me until I bled, to reading scripture passages every night seemingly overnight. So in response to the OP, yes religion or religious zealots ruined an otherwise happy marriage.

(in reply to khalya)

Post #: 54

RE: Meshing of Religion - 1/2/2009 6:26:18 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
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From: Apple County NY
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Isn't religion one of the many things we seek compatibility with? He isn't religious, and I'm not terribly. But if he wanted to go to a candlelit midnight Christmas service, I wouldn't carp. At the same time he doesn't care if I cut out occasionally for shul services. If either of us felt strongly about it, we wouldn't be able to coexist peacefully. In the same way that I'm not compatible with a rightwinger and wouldn't have gotten beyond the first few conversations with one.

I'm equally incompatible with sadists who see no purpose to bondage. Just one more thing we need to have in common.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 55

RE: Meshing of Religion - 1/2/2009 8:24:40 PM

moonvine

Posts: 780
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Greetings khalya,

Can you tell me how you got trained in reiki? This is something that has interested me for a whiile.

Thanks!

(in reply to khalya)

Post #: 56

RE: Meshing of Religion - 1/2/2009 8:50:46 PM

bluesgun

Posts: 33
Joined: 7/8/2005
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In response to the OP, no religion has never corrupted any of my relationships.
I stay away from religion, Grey Goose is cheaper and doesnt have the nasty aftertaste.
I'd have to say the late George Carlin had the subject of religion covered,especially the christian cult.
Just my opinion, and granddad used to say those are like assholes "everyone's got one and they all stink.... cept mine"

_____________________________

I'm not a gynocologist ....but I'll take a look.

(in reply to moonvine)

Post #: 57

RE: Meshing of Religion - 1/11/2009 4:08:14 PM

awsnap

Posts: 13
Joined: 11/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NYLass

quote:

ORIGINAL: khalya

In my experience, this has never come up, but I was wondering what would happen if it did. I am, to put it mildly, a pagan. To anyone that walks into my apartment, it is blatantly obvious that there is juju working in there.

Has anyone had an experience where religious differences ruined an established relationship?

Sorry to be so late in responding, but I just saw this and had to respond.

I was married over 20 years. We were both non practicing Catholics. We had a wonderful marriage and our son is now 19. One day he came home and announced we needed to be born again. We were destined to burn in hell and had to repent. I thought he was joking. Our 'playtime' disappeared and then even the sex became an issue. The divorce was finalized a few months ago.

When some men reach 50, they have affairs or get a sports car. Mine was reborn. He went from caning me until I bled, to reading scripture passages every night seemingly overnight. So in response to the OP, yes religion or religious zealots ruined an otherwise happy marriage.

Maybe your marriage ruined a Christian man...

(in reply to NYLass)

Post #: 58

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