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bdsm and fairy tales - 1/1/2009 10:53:58 AM   
MasterLark


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Status: offline 		A submissive once told me that she believed her submissiveness in large part derives from her memories as a child enjoying fairy tales. she would have recurrent dreams of being in a forest, talking with animals and being taken by a large animal, much of which she asserts drew from the fairy tales she came to love.

I am curious if this relationship of submissiveness to fairy tales rings true for others. Being a male, my earliest memories of dominance as arousal come from "modern" fairy tales, if you will, namely television or film stories of the damsel in distress, and less so with fairy tales I read in a book.
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RE: bdsm and fairy tales - 1/1/2009 12:16:17 PM   
CatdeMedici


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Status: offline 		Wiring happens differently, though I would be careful of one who talks of fairy tales and make sure the princess is not hoping for a rescuer. 

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RE: bdsm and fairy tales - 1/1/2009 12:22:14 PM   
GoodFeathers


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Status: offline 		Everyone is different.  For her, this scenario may be accurate.  For me, however, it wouldn't be, since I didn't like fairy tales as a child.  

Think about it, if the "modern" fairy tales, as you call them, introduced you to your kinky bits, then it is entirely possible it works for her, as well as others.

For me, yes, I like to feel safe and protected, but I've never felt like a damsel in distress or felt as though I needed to be saved.  While prince charming had a certain something, I never found myself attracted him or the villain (who also had a certain something).  But then again, I was an odd child, I liked Shakespeare, baseball, and the Wall Street Journal.   


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RE: bdsm and fairy tales - 1/1/2009 12:43:14 PM   
oceanwynds


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Status: offline 		I love fairy tales. I am a student of Caroline Myss, author of Sacred Contracts and other books, and one of my archtype personalites is ' the damsel' so i watch very carefully to not let her take over my life. I been fortunate to found 2 men that weren't the knight in shinning armour, so that has been a major help for me. I love fairies, dragons, and many other characters of fairy tales. Take me into the woods and I will be in bliss. 

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RE: bdsm and fairy tales - 1/1/2009 12:44:17 PM   
littlewonder


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Status: offline 		I can't relate. I was never into fairytales as a child. 

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RE: bdsm and fairy tales - 1/1/2009 1:19:42 PM   
mc1234


Posts: 683
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Status: offline 		My earliest memories of domination and submission came from bodice-ripper romances, not fairy tales.  Being taken ... yummy ... by a pirate, even better!  Come to think of it, that explains why I love the Pirates of the Caribbean series so much ...

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RE: bdsm and fairy tales - 1/1/2009 1:19:51 PM   
MasterLark


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Status: offline 		oceanwynds, yes archtypes fit well with fairy tales. Joseph Campbell has written well of myths and the journey of the hero and heroine. Set aside the Disney version of these tales and go back to the printed versions of the originals.

Maria Tatar writes in her book, The Annotated Classic Fairy Tales: "by entering thw world of fantasy and imagination, children and adults secure for themselves a safe space where fears can be confronted, mastered and banished. Beyond that, the real magic of the fairy tale lies in its ability to extract pleasure from pain. In bringing to life the dark figures of our imagination as ogres, witches, cannibals and giants, fairy tales may stir up dread, but in the end they always supply the pleasure of seeing it vanquished."

Hmmm. Sounds like a parallel to at least a Dominant/submissive relationship. Works for some, not for others.

Some fairy tales:

"Little Red Riding Hood"
"Cinderella"
"Hansel and Gretel"
"Snow White"
"Sleeping Beauty"
"Rapunzel"
"The Frog King"
"Rumpelstiltskin"
"Jack and the Beanstalk"
"Bluebeard"
"The Juniper Tree"
"Vasilisa the Fair'
"East of the Sun, West of the Moon"
"Molly Whuppie"
"The Three Little Pigs"
"Master Cat or Puss in Boots"
"The Three Bears"
"The Emperor's New Clothes"
"The Little Match Girl"
"The Princess and the Pea"
"The Ugly Duckling"
"The Little Mermaid"

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RE: bdsm and fairy tales - 1/1/2009 1:29:43 PM   
T1981


Posts: 557
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Status: offline 		The Little Match girl was my favorite growing up - the original Little Mermaid. I always really liked the sad ones.

I don't think that has anything to do with my kink, but I'm fairly certain I was pegged to be an angsty teenage goth from early on thanks to my love for sad stories!

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RE: bdsm and fairy tales - 1/1/2009 1:35:29 PM   
oceanwynds


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Status: offline 		MasterLark, Joseph Campbell is excellent. I will look up Maria Tator's book, thanks for mentioning it.

I have a deck of tarot that is all fairy tales. That in itself is very interesting to use.
oceanwynds

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RE: bdsm and fairy tales - 1/1/2009 1:37:59 PM   
mc1234


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Status: offline 		A fairy tale question:  How does Maria Tatar's book compare with the Grimm's Fairy Tales?  I love reading Grimm's, but have never ventured into other interpretations of the fairy tale.  

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RE: bdsm and fairy tales - 1/1/2009 1:40:28 PM   
IrishMist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterLark

A submissive once told me that she believed her submissiveness in large part derives from her memories as a child enjoying fairy tales. she would have recurrent dreams of being in a forest, talking with animals and being taken by a large animal, much of which she asserts drew from the fairy tales she came to love.

I am curious if this relationship of submissiveness to fairy tales rings true for others. Being a male, my earliest memories of dominance as arousal come from "modern" fairy tales, if you will, namely television or film stories of the damsel in distress, and less so with fairy tales I read in a book.

Nope, sorry, but not for me.

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RE: bdsm and fairy tales - 1/1/2009 1:48:40 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		I highily recommend you read "The Uses of Enchantment" by Bruno Bettelheim: his psychoanalytical deconstruction of fairy tales as Freudian constructs is brilliant, and illuminating. Certainly, it helped me understand a lot about my own psychology - and the perversity of our cultural archetypes, and how it influenced my personal development.

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RE: bdsm and fairy tales - 1/1/2009 2:03:46 PM   
Roguescharm


Posts: 82
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Status: offline 		While I do love fairy tales I don't really see much of a link between them and my submissive side. Not the traditional spoken or written ones anyway, movies that have a fairy tale feel or theme, Labyrinth or Hellboy II for example, do seem to encroach on my fantasies quite a bit, though in them I never need rescuing which seems rather odd to me... Probably because it's the villains that are the ones I find most attractive and intriguing.

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RE: bdsm and fairy tales - 1/1/2009 2:27:58 PM   
MasterLark


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Status: offline 		mc1234, you ask about the comparison of Maria Tatar's book to Grimm's Fairy Tales. Maria presents 26 fairy tales, then in the margin with each adds notes on her interpretation, and she adds the biographies of the fairy tale authors, collectors and illustrators. Different illustrators of fairy tales suggest different understandings of the text.

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RE: bdsm and fairy tales - 1/1/2009 2:40:58 PM   
MasterLark


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Status: offline 		kittinSol, thanks, I will go get
quote:

"The Uses of Enchantment" by Bruno Bettelheim
.

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RE: bdsm and fairy tales - 1/1/2009 2:45:55 PM   
MasterLark


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quote:

MasterLark, Joseph Campbell is excellent.


Yes. Start with "follow your bliss," which is why you are here.

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RE: bdsm and fairy tales - 1/1/2009 2:51:32 PM   
MasterLark


Posts: 249
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Status: offline 		The happy ending of the fairy tale, the myth, and the divine comedy of the soul, is to be read, not as a contradiction, but as a transcendence of the universal tragedy of man.

Joseph Campbell
The Hero with a Thousand Faces

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RE: bdsm and fairy tales - 1/1/2009 4:24:26 PM   
mc1234


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Status: offline 		Thank you for the explanation, MasterLark!  Definitely something I'd be interested in reading.  

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RE: bdsm and fairy tales - 1/1/2009 6:35:52 PM   
mandyjean


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Status: offline 		I read once that children coming from a background of abuse and/or neglect tend to hang onto fairy tales much longer than other children.  Good wins out in the end.  The one with the true heart and the willingness to help others is seen in the end to be the most worthy and beautiful though it may take time and trials.  That plays perfectly into submission.  I am beautiful in my Master's eyes because of my willingness to please him.  The heroes in the stories often had difficult tasks that they needed to complete to get to their reward.  It is the same in real life for a slave.  A see a very beautiful correlation between the two.

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RE: bdsm and fairy tales - 1/1/2009 6:51:30 PM   
MasterLark


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mandyjean

I read once that children coming from a background of abuse and/or neglect tend to hang onto fairy tales much longer than other children.  Good wins out in the end.  The one with the true heart and the willingness to help others is seen in the end to be the most worthy and beautiful though it may take time and trials.  That plays perfectly into submission.  I am beautiful in my Master's eyes because of my willingness to please him.  The heroes in the stories often had difficult tasks that they needed to complete to get to their reward.  It is the same in real life for a slave.  A see a very beautiful correlation between the two.



Beautifully stated, mandyjean.

I suspect this may also apply to any child that faced difficult real life challenges when growing up, in addition to abuse or neglect, such as health challenges or moving alot.

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