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When subspace ISN'T a warm, fluffy place... - 1/3/2009 6:20:38 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Sir is a sadist. What that really means is that sometimes it’s just going to be all about him. I’m a masochist and like most masochists, there are some types of pain that I thoroughly enjoy…and some types of pain that I don’t. Now Sir loves to administer the types of pain that take me to that special place…loves to take me to that edge and watch and guide me as I transcend that line and float off into my own bliss. I’d have to even say that he enjoys that the majority of the time. But then there are those “other” times…the times that are for his purposes alone. At those times he will get me bound and lean in and whisper…”I’m sorry baby but tonight is my night”. Those words send me spiraling into this weird scramble to regain my footing…the knowledge that there won’t likely be any chance of finding a comfort zone for me. It will all be about enduring and accepting. Coping right from the get...no warm up just balls to the wall right out of the gate. I know that in those times I really am just meat for all intents and purposes. Granted...not meat that he has no regard for safety...but meat that he simply wants to and will use to suit HIS purposes. 

It’s not that I can’t find subspace at those times…but the subspace I find is usually very different. It’s not that peaceful world filled with lush purples and greens. It’s not that serene misty place that quiets my soul. It’s a dark and sometimes scary place that is penetrated by bright bolts of reds and yellows. It’s a place that is filled with feelings of anxiety and fear, panic…even aggression. A place where tears don’t flow softly taking away droplets of stress as they fall…but a place where tears burn bitterly, like being tossed into a vat of acid.

When I come out of that space I don’t feel that welcomed rest and rejuvenation. I feel like all of my pistons are firing at warp speed. Fully alive….adrenalin overload. It’s an emotional place but one where I am left with more energy than I know where how to channel instead of that cathartic peace that comes from “normal” space. Sometimes I come out of it feeling crushed physically and emotionally and it’s hard to transition back and gain control of my emotions. Normally I enjoy finding comfort in Sir’s arms when I’m coming back to the here and now…but in these instances I often prefer to go off on my own. The problem with that is that it is exactly in these times that I need most to reconnect with him…but there is something that pushes me away from that. I’m not sure what it is…anger…spite. I really don’t know…but I need some buffer time between the experience and being able to accept his affection and care again. Now, I’m not talking hours or days…but a good half hour or so after I come fully back.
Does anyone else out there have a similar experience and if so, is there anything that you do to make that transition easier?

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~erin~

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RE: When subspace ISN'T a warm, fluffy place... - 1/3/2009 6:37:36 AM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		I'd hazard a guess that those different types of space are due to the different hormones ... endorphins produce the feel good space, whereas an overload of adrenalin is likely to be responsible for the dark charged up space. The lack of warm-up, and the lack of emotional connection in that second type of scene is not going to be conducive to producing endorphins, but it will definitely produce lots of adrenalin and noradrenalin from both parts of your nervous system and the adrenal glands! Given that adrenalin is the "fight or flight" hormone, that entirely explains your feelings of aggression and desire to go off and be alone afterwards. Working off the adrenalin could be the way to go, something like a punching bag perhaps? A skipping rope? Whatever you are physically capable of ... that should work for getting the tension out of your body so that you can then calm down and reconnect with your Sir.

As a sub, i've not really experienced that dark a space, though i have had one where i took a LOT of hard strokes and pushed to go to a place where i bawled my eyes out. Rather disturbing for Master but ultimately very cathartic for me, though i have absolutely no idea what i was crying about! I have also observed another sub who often went through a decidedly aggressive phase on her way into subspace, and sometimes her Master would deliberately play her to keep her in that phase instead of allowing her to transition on into soft space. I always thought that made Him a masochist as well as a sadist LOL!

Hope that helps some erin!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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RE: When subspace ISN'T a warm, fluffy place... - 1/3/2009 6:46:50 AM   
T1981


Posts: 557
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline 		There have been times when my husband hasn't taken the time to properly warm me up for a good beating - or at least not in the way that I like to be warmed up - and so when the blows come, it does make it much harder to handle. And it does sort of jerk around my emotions, too, since I'm so used to liking pain and loving every minute of it, there is some doubt when sometimes the strike comes and I think "Oh my god, I can't even pretend to make this feel truly pleaserable."

We've been working on a total power exchange during scenes, so I'm learning how not to top from the bottom outside of the safeword territory, and then, there, at those times, it really does become about submitting rather than the ride. The endorphins kick in, always, they always do, but because my mind is in a different place, it affects my body and my mood differently. It's not a bad place, persay, but it is different.

It hasn't ever been really dark, not as much as you are describing, but I want you to know - and I hope this doesn't come out wierd or wrong - that it makes me feel comforted to know that if it ever does get dark, that I won't be alone and that it won't mean I'm a bad sub. I'm really glad you made this thread.


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RE: When subspace ISN'T a warm, fluffy place... - 1/3/2009 6:48:57 AM   
scarlethiney


Posts: 492
Joined: 8/22/2008
Status: offline 		Yes, I do exactly as you do and take some space until I get past those feelings. They are often a mixture of anger. spite, hurt, indignation and resentment.  It usually takes me the same amount of time to "get over it" usually no more than an hour and then I welcome being comforted by Master.
A warm bath with essential oils (Lavender is mood altering) will usually do the trick.............produce big crocodile tears and then I am ready to move past it.
Master is a Sadist also and if he at any point begins to see that I am at this point he will usually back off or ask me if I've had enough.  It may just be our dynamic but he rarely intentionally puts me in that place if it is something that will upset me or something I have an issue with.
I am not a fan of conflict in any way, shape or form and so my retreats are often to avoid what I see might be conflicted encounters when I am feeling emotional.

Interesting question thanks!

scarlet



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RE: When subspace ISN'T a warm, fluffy place... - 1/3/2009 7:07:51 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		MaamJay, what you said makes a lot of sense. We had a scene that triggered that response on New Year's Eve. Since then we watched a war movie where there was this huge explosion that you watched happen from a soldier's perspective. The explosion happened and he was blown back by it and the scene went silent from his perspective...but there was total chaos happening all around him that he was watching. You could sense his disorientation and fear. That is like what happens. It's like a massive blow will land and it all goes silent or my ears will ring so loudly that I can't hear anything and I'm scrambling fearfully in the chaos, recoiling from the assault of the colors coming in. Disorientation. I'm sure that you are right...it's an adrenalin thing.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: When subspace ISN'T a warm, fluffy place... - 1/3/2009 7:09:55 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Scarlethiney, what a good idea!!! I can't use Lavender because Sir is allergic to it...and to be really honest I don't have good results with it anyway. But Clary Sage has a very strong effect on me. I think I will try to remember to pack some of that in the toy bag and use it after those kinds of scenes and see if it helps. Thank you.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: When subspace ISN'T a warm, fluffy place... - 1/3/2009 8:30:30 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Well what you describe as experiencing is often how I feel after I endure a painful scene, but I would not describe it as subspace at all.  I'm not a masochist either. 

I've had bad dark subspace experiences, but not necessarily as your description.

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RE: When subspace ISN'T a warm, fluffy place... - 1/3/2009 8:31:36 AM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		my Sir is a sadist also - and there are times when he plays so i don't enjoy it - and usually i end up angry. He knows what i like, and what takes me to subspace, so when he plays in a way that he knows i don't care for, its deliberate.
No two ways about it - i feel as if i am being punished ,unfairly, and get mad  -  and usually tearful as well - tears of anger. He thoroughly enjoys my anger, and usually insists on a hug at the end - wheither i want to or not, and once i push past the initial reluctance to have anything to do with him, its ok.  I think if he is aware of my reluctance, he enjoys that as well!

He is a BAD man!!!!

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RE: When subspace ISN'T a warm, fluffy place... - 1/3/2009 8:37:37 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		Hey mistoferin,
I can really relate.  I have these times where I feel almost traumatized when they do some things to me.  Generally speaking, they don't allow me to be alone, but I am allowed to kind of huddle and hug myself.  Because I endured a good amount of trauma in my past, they are particularly careful when this happens since they don't want me to be emotionally damaged by their sadism.  Somehow it makes me feel more vulnerable, more wanting to please, wanting to go back and face the thing that threw me into the "bad place".    I don't think I could take it if they touched me when I am getting past whatever it is.  I'm shaking and afraid; there is a rawness, animalistic place there. 

It sounds like you have found a way that works for you.  Transitions don't always have to be close with another person right away.  It's like when a person is angry.  Sometimes we have to step away alone before we can come back, pulled together, and be with the other person.  Sounds pretty good, what you are doing.

well wishes,
*tgfka sunshine

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RE: When subspace ISN'T a warm, fluffy place... - 1/3/2009 8:38:50 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		I love the lavender idea (sage for Erin since she can't do lavender). 

I was often brought to very dark places, not through pain but through emotional prodding.  What I would experience would be filled with rage and fear (the fear coming from how overwhelming the rage was and what it seemed to be turning me into in that moment).  Afterward I would collapse with exhaustion and cry a lot.  It was up to me to figure out my recovery and this particular play of his always took a long time to recover from.  I never did find out a quick fix, although in retrospect I remember having some lavender rice bags that I would heat up to warm myself with (I'd always be extremely chilled and trembling, too).  The scent helped calm me, as did the warmth.

Ice cream helped, too. 


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RE: When subspace ISN'T a warm, fluffy place... - 1/3/2009 9:17:45 AM   
SlaveIndigochild


Posts: 272
Status: offline 		Dear mistoferin
No transition is easy. Transition from a high feels like a drop. Transition out of anxiety is relief but makes me realise that an anxiety pattern was created. Downtime is the solution....rest, relaxation but above all sleep. i dream and my dreams surface and tell me everything even though it takes time to work out the latent content.....wish fulfillment, loves completed, fighting back, revenge, freedom, harder safer bondage,....sleep provides it all for me if i look and listen.



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RE: When subspace ISN'T a warm, fluffy place... - 1/3/2009 12:53:42 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
Ice cream helped, too. 


Ice cream helps everything doesn't it?  Somehow though I have a feeling that is going to have to be a "home" remedy as I don't think that Sir will let me pack Ben &Jerry's Cherry Garcia into the toy bag.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: When subspace ISN'T a warm, fluffy place... - 1/3/2009 1:32:13 PM   
ChainedExistence


Posts: 507
Joined: 2/5/2005
Status: offline 		I've been thinking about this thread since earlier today. In some ways I feel like it could have been written by me, though I am usually reticient to define myself as a masochist. Most of the time play leaves me happy, content, ready to be cuddled and desirous of gentle kisses and loving contact as a finale. I see swirling bright colors- yellows, bright blues, oranges and the pain transitions to wonderfully rhythmic sounds that lull me into a contented state. But there are those times where when it all feels more like a grueling endurance test, and I am failing miserably. I get paranoid and dark, and it feels like this red hot anger is running through my veins challenging him, if not externally, then in internal defiance. I am raging inside my head with colors of dark crimson, black,or deep purple. There is no working through the pain, there is no sense of transitioning to pleasure, and when it is over, I just want to curl up in a little ball, and sleep. But he still makes it a point to take care of me, to cover me with warm blankets, to speak gentle words that only later can I appreciate. When I wake up, I am ravenous and crave red meat and ice cream. Those episodes seem to stay with me longer...takes me a few days to feel like my "regular" self, yet at the same time, I feel they are also the ones that make me cling to him all the more. Not sure how to explain that, except to say it is when I feel most like I am a match to his sadistic nature.

< Message edited by ChainedExistence -- 1/3/2009 1:33:26 PM >

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RE: When subspace ISN'T a warm, fluffy place... - 1/3/2009 1:48:28 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Normally I enjoy finding comfort in Sir’s arms when I’m coming back to the here and now…but in these instances I often prefer to go off on my own. The problem with that is that it is exactly in these times that I need most to reconnect with him…but there is something that pushes me away from that. I’m not sure what it is…anger…spite. I really don’t know…but I need some buffer time between the experience and being able to accept his affection and care again. Now, I’m not talking hours or days…but a good half hour or so after I come fully back.
Does anyone else out there have a similar experience and if so, is there anything that you do to make that transition easier?


It appears from what you stated that in most cases your Master "takes you to that special place".  I believe that in someways this establishes some expectations of play that your not really aware of but exist none the less.  But when he takes you that different direction that expectation is disappointed.  The other aspect is that you are faced with the reality that he will and does use you for his pleasure and wants at the expense of your own.  

I think it is important that people appreciate that we are not Linear in the emotions that we will feel.  There are often alot of mix emotions about a variety of thought we have all the time that we are aware of and many we are not.  Sometimes it takes alittle to process ourself throught these conflicting emotions and thougths.  I am sure your not really that concerned about what you feeling but maybe you find it alittle odd.  The best thing you can do is appreciate that these conflicting moments are often normal and the best way can deal with them is to become more aware of where the different emotions are coming from.  In the end.. you will still make that choice to reconnect with your Master and over time the choice will be quicker and quicker.  Another thing you can do is validate in a postive way that he used you.   I am sure you very aware of the trust and love he must have to want to use you in that way.  Focusing on these other more contructive thoughts will generate more postive emotions and speed up that process to reconnect and tip the balance away from those more negative thougths and feelings.  But it's difficult to tip the balance when you are not aware of those mixed and conflicting thoughts that generate all those mixed and conflicting emotions.

I think you will do find through all this and in time you might find yourself embracing those moments of him using you for his wants at the expense of your desire for that special place.. because in the end.. your going to build a new special place to got to that is just as equally pleasing for you.

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: When subspace ISN'T a warm, fluffy place... - 1/3/2009 4:00:01 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Yep.. been there.  Once I was in such regression I lapsed into speaking spanish.  Now, mind you, these days I require using fingers to count to ten if I am trying to speak spanish.  Very little spanish has passed my lips since I was around 2 or 3 years old.  I have trouble with understanding anything about the language now, though my early childhood accepted it as normal. 
But once, in a particularly.. mind altering bit of play, I suddenly was that kid, with full knowlege of the language and use.  My x, who knows more spanish that I do, having grown up on a ranch, understood what I said.  At the time he tried to get me slide back down from space but I was having none of it.  It took a few hours before I was emotionally detached enough to let him closer. 
I do think it is a bit of resentment, a bit of fear, a bit of .. well.. hatred, that causes those reactions.  And it takes a strong feeling of belonging to overcome it and return to normal.
Space is all too easy for me, even the dark regions.
Kyst

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RE: When subspace ISN'T a warm, fluffy place... - 1/3/2009 4:25:52 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I've experience it a few times and recently with Master and it was due to fears and anxiety where I was finding it hard to cope with the pain and not knowing how to handle the pain since I could not feel any kind of enjoyment from it.

What helps for me are his reassurances afterwards and for us to talk, for me to tell him how I'm feeling and to know he is still there for me.


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RE: When subspace ISN'T a warm, fluffy place... - 1/3/2009 5:19:37 PM   
SteveAndJaz


Posts: 151
Joined: 11/22/2008
Status: offline 		feel very close to this subject but for now will just read.

Steve and Jaz

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RE: When subspace ISN'T a warm, fluffy place... - 1/3/2009 6:01:03 PM   
RainydayNE


Posts: 978
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline 		had a very memorable time when this happened
iiiiit's interesting to say the least

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RE: When subspace ISN'T a warm, fluffy place... - 1/4/2009 6:40:30 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChainedExistence
But there are those times where when it all feels more like a grueling endurance test, and I am failing miserably. I get paranoid and dark, and it feels like this red hot anger is running through my veins challenging him, if not externally, then in internal defiance. I am raging inside my head with colors of dark crimson, black,or deep purple. There is no working through the pain


Can I ever relate to that! There definitely is red hot anger. I think it comes in the moment he says "this is going to be my night". It's not that I don't want him to have his nights...certainly I do. Actually, I want desperately for him to have that kind of satisfaction for himself come from every one of our encounters. But, when he says those words it's kind of like I feel like I am being hung out there alone defenseless against the assault that I know is to come. I know immediately that none of the very familiar pathways I take through the course of a scene are going to be available and I know that the entire thing will test me to find a way to endure.

I know that the emotional connection will be severed...or at least very different as I do not want to imply that he ever actually shuts me out emotionally. He doesn't. But he does take it down to the very basics. My feelings about what he's doing in that time frame seem to not matter. I'm sure they do but he makes it very difficult for me to see that. It feels cold, like he's on emotional stealth mode or something. It's a very primal urge that he is satisfying at those times I believe. I know that to some that may sound horrible...to me, at least looking back on it, it's a time when the truth of his needs is starkly evident.

So there I stand, the object to absorb the intensity of those urges. My proven methods of processing the pain will not work then so I feel defenseless. I, too, feel like a miserable failure at those times when that panicky anxiety is welling up inside me and those acid tears start to fall. The only part of your post that I don't really relate to is the last line where you say that it is then that you feel most like a match to his sadistic nature. I actually feel quite the opposite at those times...feeling more like maybe I've bitten off more than I can chew. I feel unsure of myself at those times, which is a really uncomfortable and very unfamiliar feeling to me. I question whether or not I'm capable of satisfying him. I know this not to be true but it takes me a bit of time afterward to see that again.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to ChainedExistence)
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RE: When subspace ISN'T a warm, fluffy place... - 1/4/2009 7:12:36 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
I am sure you very aware of the trust and love he must have to want to use you in that way. 


Oh yes, I'm very aware. I am humbled by the love and trust that it requires and that he has in me to do this. I think that, at least in part, some of this is coming from exactly that. This is probably going to sound silly but..it is because of that love and trust that I always want to do my best for him. I want to be able to accept all that he has to offer me...the sweet and the acid. But I want to be able to do that with grace. I know it sounds very superficial but there is no graceful place I can find during scenes like this. I can't be sexy and appealing while he is reducing me to a pile of rubble. I begin to be embarassed by my loss of control, my tears, my writhing. Especially when we are in a public place I begin to feel like an embarassment to him and like I am letting him down. We have talked about it and he tells me that he thinks that when he takes me down to that level where I am just completely raw and exposed that I AM beautiful to him. He's even said that at those times it is when I am my MOST beautiful to him because there is nothing hidden, no falsehood of image. But when I look in that mirror and see my mascara streaked face and my hair looking like rats have tried to nest in it...I just don't see how he could think that was sexy. I want to look my best for him and especially, when we are in front of others. I don't want to be an embarassment.

Silly...I know....

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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