RE: Education for the dolites (Full Version)

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TheHeretic -> RE: Education for the dolites (1/3/2009 2:49:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Ex military friends of mine learned all those things Rich - and found they had to unlearn all those things pretty damned quickly in civilian life or face resentment and hostility from fellow "workers".




          LOL.  Yes, but the hostiles never lasted very long around the job site.

         Don't get me wrong now.  There was a period in my life when I had decided that other things in my life were far more important than any easily replaced, 2 bucks over minimum, crap job that came along.  But when it comes to the kind of jobs that are worth keeping, that attitude needs to go back into the box.

        Shame there is a continent and an ocean in the way.  I'm starting to look around for something with real money to be made.




LadyEllen -> RE: Education for the dolites (1/3/2009 2:56:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
       Shame there is a continent and an ocean in the way.  I'm starting to look around for something with real money to be made.


Well, I have a business plan that will make you a million, no problems! European road transport is the ideal way to do it - just start with a billion LOL!

E




Phoenixpower -> RE: Education for the dolites (1/3/2009 3:09:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: alysia

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

With all these job losses and redundancies in this present economic climate, would it not be better for the government to instead of forcing people back into employment, any employment to soothe the statistics, to actually invest in our future ?


Personally if i was out of work i would be glad of the chance of a job whatever it was. I would rather be working than not. There is far to much snobbery about what we are willing to do for a living rather than accepting that we need to work to live.
The economy cannot surely stand the strain of too many people on training courses, the dole because they feel they are above doing a menial job.


alysia agrees with this statement.  This girl would rather work than not and if it means doing a menial job then so be it.  As for too much snobbery about what people are willing to do for a living... alysia has heard friends and aquintances say they would not get out of bed for the national minimum wage and then complain that immigrants are taking all our jobs.  Yes they are taking a lot of the jobs because they don't mind what they do or that it is the national minimum wage as long as they are working and earning honest money and good for them!  Some people need to step back and take a good look at themselves; it is not that they are too good for the job or that it pays too little, it's that they are too lazy to get off their backside!
 
As for the training, it is a good idea and a nice idea but don't know if it would be achievable or sustainable.   


quote:

alysia has heard friends and aquintances say they would not get out of bed for the national minimum wage and then complain that immigrants are taking all our jobs.  Yes they are taking a lot of the jobs because they don't mind what they do or that it is the national minimum wage as long as they are working and earning honest money and good for them!


Exactly...When I came over to the UK in 2005 it was because the social sector collapsed in germany and 80% of my course who qualified a year before was out of work, as there were no jobs. I am qualified to work with difficult kids in children's homes, but by then the view rare jobs who were out were overloaded with applications even from social workers and from kindergarden staff (as annoyingly they were allowed to apply and work in our sector but we were not the other way around...at least in those days, I was told that would be about to change).

However, I worked as a live-in carer with spinal cord injured clients for 9 months. It wasn't a great job and you had to deal with a lot, as despite the demanding work itself, quite a few clients are not very happy either that this agency has mainly foreign workers. I am fairly sure that approx. 90% of my colleagues were from poland...so, what would this agency be supposed to do without the foreigners??? If I would be able in germany to work in any other care sector after just a 3-5 day trainings course as it is over here, I would not have left germany and would have done the same work at home. Unfortunately for me (but am glad about it for the people who are receiving care) in germany this is another 3-4 year qualification you have to do as it is a similar qualification to the nurse-qualification. Over there it is not done with a short induction course. Now, i did 2 qualifications at home, one over 2 years another one over 4 years...with the fact that jobs were rare in general and plenty pupils were still looking for a traineeship after finishing school, the chances are lower then slim to get another traineeship. So, there was no point for me sitting and waiting at home.

My live-in care job wasn't anything I ever wanted to do...but it also didn't kill me and I do know from that that I could handle it well, if it would ever be required from me within a relationship (as during that time I heard many stories that disabled clients lost their partner as the partner couldn't face the changes the new disability was bringing into their life).

Same afterwards when I continued as a live-out carer for 4 months before moving up the ladder with my career here. Jobs are there and it is at least in the agencies I worked with incredible rare to find british people working there as most of the time I worked with people from jamaica, africa and poland. They are not stealing the jobs. If plenty british citizen would apply for it and be willing to do the work, they wouldn't need to actively hire people from abroad as they do at times.




thornhappy -> RE: Education for the dolites (1/3/2009 3:57:33 PM)


Are you including engineering, accounting, physical therapy, pharmacy, etc. in that statement?

thornhappy
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
Only one problem with this:  Colleges do not teach skills.  Paying money for people to sit idly in a classroom is money down the drain.




celticlord2112 -> RE: Education for the dolites (1/3/2009 4:11:22 PM)

quote:

Are you including engineering, accounting, physical therapy, pharmacy, etc. in that statement?

No.  Those are professions, not vocations (my own college degree is in Accounting), and while they are noble calling, they do not provide employment to the general population, especially during an economic downturn.

College as a pre-requisite to gainful employment is a foolish fallacy.  The world does not need more accountants (although apparently a good number of the current crop need to be hung, drawn, and quartered).




Aneirin -> RE: Education for the dolites (1/3/2009 4:20:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

where contrary to popular oppinion, the forces do not train a person to be a civilian employee,



        Really?  Didn't you learn to show up on time?  To get the job done, despite obstacles and challenges?  To understand and respect that if your job wasn't done right, it impacted the efforts of the whole?  To place the mission above your own immediate gratification?

        I'd say those are some valuable things to be trained in.


The trouble is with that, at least in the uk, business loves a willing task horse, but rarely ever rewards it. I increased a non profitable sector of one workplace from circa 1k per month to on average 12k per month in my specific area, but as an aside created an increase in business due to the good name I gained for the company, but come wage increase time, notrhing was forthcoming, I had not had a raise in five years and was being paid just above minimum wage. I left the company for another that paid slightly more, but more of a protest move, the company I left lost a good number of it's customer base and had to subcontract me from the company I worked for to attend their breakdowns, as it was my replacement lacked my skills and was unwilling to learn on the pay provided. The company I moved to was crap, but it proved to me skills are worth having after watching my old outfit struggle to survive and eventually go under. I ask myself, was it me that kept that company floating, my skills and ability to adapt and push through ?

As it was, the company I reluctantly left, when visiting to report break downs repaired, often it was the owner's son and daughter wanted me back, but they were not in a position to talk for the owner. I agree, I have some pretty weird ways of working, but the work I get done and more besides, boundaries I cross to achieve my aim, but the owner would not, could not ask me back, such was the misunderstanding between he and me. If it interests, both scorpios and ex forces, we did not see eye to eye.




Termyn8or -> RE: Education for the dolites (1/4/2009 8:16:41 PM)

/\ < that's the sign for the usual Termy slant, forthcoming.

Part of the problem is that we educate too slowly in some parts of the world. It seems in some places we have slowed to the slowest common denominator. To illustrate a contrast, open up another browser window and search for Lewin A. R. W. Edwards. He quit college for a job opportunity that he just coun't/wouldn't pass up and eventually wound up in NY working on an H1B visa, and I can guarantee he took no low skilled job from anyone, probably makes money faster than I can, which is the next point. But do search that, he has one of the most impressive resumes I have ever seen in my life. Gat much better of a resume than Lewin's and all you do is send it to the company you currently work for to get a raise. lol

Now the difference. First of all work is like jail. Unless you own the place you have no choice as to who you work with. I didn't mind the little bit of jail I did, except for the fact that they kept bringing in all these assholes. Why don't they put them ........ nevermind. You may hate peole who are integral to the operation of the company, and as much as I like to say I don't play politics, of course you know all that means is I keep it to an absolute minimum.

But if some sort of real direction could be established when young, something the student is really interested in and wants to learn, you gain manifold. The student will excel. For me is was electronics, for others it may be something else.

Many wait too long, at forty because of a divorce she is studying data entry to get back into the workforce at practically minimum wage. Then that ship lands before it ever gets off the ground.

On the other hand I knew how a transistor works just about 12 years after it was invented. (it is a basic building block of all the technology we have). Very few people can say that. As a result I was actually cutting school to go to work illegally for a time. Now I literally am 48 with over 30 years experience. I can also honestly say that on my first week on the job, way back when, I solved a problem that nobody else could.

I think what they need to do is to go to a dual mode, vo-ed primers as well as regular education, at a very early age. I mean as a very crude example, take a bunch of third graders to the courtroom steps and ask them about the steps. How did they get there ? Who put them there ? How did they do  it ? Things like that. Perhaps tours of some of the less dangerous factories still remaining. Get them started so they can have the desire to excel.

Then, in not too long, we will no longer be at the mercy of the third world labor. That will be because we will have something better to offer. Until then we are going to decline until we reach third world status.

You think cheap overseas labor was not available say forty years ago ? Bullshit. Your beloved Chrysler imported Czeckoslovakian Skodas back in the 1950s. Sony has been around for a while, it rose up from the ashes of Tokyo Tse Chung Kogyo, established before WW2. Mitsubishi is the same company that built the Zero bombers that killed our Men. But before you go smashing your car into your TV, think to yourself, who cares ?

Any one of us, with the requisite money and skills can open up a company and make parts for say, the auto industry. All you have to do is maintain quality and deliver it on time at a competitive price. This is where the innovation comes in. This is where we used to shine.

Sure it can be argued that we never caught up to the Germans, but I don't see a German flag on the moon. We have come a long way ----- down. If this is our major concern, that is not a good thing. As much as I do say we need to do some real work here and produce something with which to trade, that is not a limit.

At present, society tends to pigeonhole people. Some people are placed too low, and others too high. I'll tell you this much, if my Uncle ran AIG they would never have needed a bailout. If they did I think Grampa would've rose up from the dead, dug his way out of the grave and went and killed him.

In other words, upgrading skills is always a good idea, just don't expect alot as of yet, as long as the wrong people are running things.

T




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